sorry, I meant a few months back, might have actually been a half year ago so not sure if Critical Mass still goes by Chinatown or not.

I just noticed the area Wednesday mentioned: Union Square to Hyde. Isn't this the Tenderloin?

You frequent the Tenderloin at night?

Yes, easytraveler is right, that is the tenderloin, yikes!!

I wouldn't go there at night, sorry to offend some people, I just wouldn't.

For maps: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/maps/google/main

Some interesting footage I found on the Tenderloin District:


http://www.turnhere.com/city/san_fra...films/464.aspx

I would be hesitant to tell anybody that any section of a big city is safe, as the night goes on, especially two women alone. Obviously, if an area is brightly lit, with tons of people walking with you, you're okay. We just stayed at The Columbus Motor Inn a couple of blocks or so from Fisherman's Wharf, SF, and walking back to the hotel after nine or so gave me pause. I didn't see anything threatening BUT ... I didn't feel entirely comfortable. Our hotel mgr. told us he would stay away from the Tenderloin area at night; he said the area we were in was considered to be safe but not to take chances, stay out of dark areas, etc. Which I would do, anyway ...

The R and the L are pretty far apart on my keyboard. How 'bout yours?

Anyone noticed increased tension on the board these days, lots of snapping, lots of political asides? Summer seem too far off?

Thanks everyone for your replies. It seems everyone agrees that my friend and I should only go to Chinatown if we get there while it is still daylight. I'm not sure if we'll be able to do that, so I'll just play it by ear and see what happens.

If it turns out we can't go there, are there any other places we could go? We'll be staying at a hotel near the airport, so close to there would be best, I guess.

Thanks!

Everyone agrees???

I bet if you divided the locals' opinions and the non-locals' opinions, you would see that the locals think it is quite safe. At one end of Grant, you have the eastern edge of the fashionable Union Square shopping area and the Financial district, and to the north of Grant there's North Beach - which is hopping in the evening.

About once a year the Chronicle publishes a map of the areas in the City with "dots" where murders have occurred. I don't remember seeing many (perhaps none) dots the Chinatown.

Alleys ? - can't think of a reason why you would need to go down an alley - except to get to Bix.

Stu Dudley

TTess,

This is a business trip so I had no choice as to where I could stay.

Have any of you ever been on any of the dinner cruises? My friend and I are thinking of doing that instead, but the prices are pretty high and I'm wondering if it's worth it.

My dear TTess: So, you're not Asian. Well, I am. I'm an Asian-American and frankly I find it highly funny (after two luncheon glasses of excellent California wine) that you accuse me of generating a racist comment - against my own race no less!

Let me thank you and congratulate you for your exemplary defense of us "minorities". Again, I mean this sincerely.

I fully understand your position, given the centuries old misguided theories on racism that has bounced around Europe and America. From the famed Linneaus and his classifications of people which placed the Europeans above everyone else on earth (BTW, he also had classifications for giants, dwarfs, trocodytes (sp?), and other mythical creatures)to eminent men like Gobineau (he started the "white man is superior to other races" theme) to Ben Franklin (who preferred the "white" Europeans to the "swarthy" Europeans; which, in my current half-drunken mood, is pretty funny, given that the revered Greek and Roman cultures were both in the areas where the "swarthy" Europeans lived) to the American, Madison Grant (whose ideas of the great Nordic race resulted in the discriminatory and racist laws in the US in the 1920's, under which my family directly suffered) (oh, I forgot - almost - Grant's book was proclaimed by Hitler as "the bible"), to Shockley...

Holy Smokes! That's a heavy burden of racism for the white people to bear, especially now that genetic and linguistic research is proving that the peoples who spoke the early Indo-European languages originated probably in the Caucausus or north of it and not in the "Nordic" lands of Germany or Scandinavia (and the early Europeans were, therefore more likely "swarthy" than not).

Besides which Gobineau (early 18th century) placed in his hierarchy of human beings, the Jews at the top of the pyramid.

(YOOO-HOOO! FAINA! You, there at the top of the pyramid, can you hear me down here at the bottom? )

You'll forgive me, TTess, if I don't share your feelings of guilt and injustice, since I come from a family of peaceful traders, who were trading with the Hawaiians while Hawaii was still a kingdom. I'm angered that the Polynesians have been pushed to the bottom of the ladder in their own land (yes, I have relatives with Polynesian blood in them).

Er, I digress. I don't share the Caucasian (haha! I just noticed that the white race is also called the 'Caucasian' race - is this an indication of its origins or what?) racist view of the world, since I'm not a Caucasian. this is not to say that Asians aren't prejudiced - Asians have a lot of prejudices of their own, but racism as we know it today is purely a European-American concept and problem.

In fact, I can't relate to the E-A racist ideas at all, - not now, not ever - having been taught by my family more in the Confucian traditions of the "web of life", in the ever-expanding webs of our immediate family, our extended family, our community, our country, and eventually of all humankind. Which is why I try to help in my community; why i love California, MY state, and therefore by extension the whole US. The links get to be less binding the greater the "web"; although I feel the suffering and pain generated by Katrina as much as if the hurricane had happened here in California.

Sorry, I can't explain my world view better, it's just that I am such a poor student. You'll never be persuaded that there wasn't a "racist" comment made, just I'm so certain that I made no such comment. Can we just let it go at that? Can we have peace between us now, TTess?

PollyR: My great apologies for hijacking your thread. Do enjoy California and SF Chinatown. The reason to avoid Chinatown at night, IMHO, is not because it will be 'dangerous' there (after all, I've seen elderly people going home in Chinatown at all hours) but because there wouldn't be much to do there after 9 PM.

Enjoy San Francisco! It's a great, sophisticated city!