Right you are mj. I think the people who keep complaining, like agree and Eric, can't take their children on nice trips and resent those that can. After all, like you mj, we take our children on nice vacations and wouldn't dream of taking them to an upscale, formal restaurant. Not travel until they are older? No way! We also don't bother others. You'd have to be an idiot to take a child to the Four Seasons and dine. I have never been bothered by a child in a truly nice restaurant. Maybe agree shouldn't go to dinner at the Red Lobster where he or she would be bothered by families.

Whats wrong with you Agree? What makes you think Deb has any intention of taking her child to a nice restaurant? Most of my friends have taken their small children on vacation but aren't stupid enough to take them to formal restaurants. Do you think it's a fun experience for the parents? I don't know where you go for your $ 200 dinner then have it disrupted by a child. In all the times I've been out to a very nice restaurant (which are many), I've yet to see a baby or small child causing the scene you describe, Agree. In fact, I don't even remember seeing babies in that caliber of restaurant. What time do you go out? Perhaps you should eat after 8:00 p.m., when families won't be dining out. Avoid casual restaurants at 6:00 p.m. and I'm sure you won't be bothered by a "farting" child.

How about Disney World or Wisconsin Dells?

I have no problem with infants or small children at places like Red Lobster. I also expect to see babies at nice restaurants early evening. One example of what I am talking about is last April at the Bay Club at Kapalua Bay hotel. Very nice, expensive, romantic place. 8:30 at night. Table next to us with not one but two small infants who did nothing but scream and cry while the adults at the table paid no attention. Some of you have been extremely lucky if this has never happened to you. It has happened all too often to us. Just asking parents for some common sense and consideration. I applaud those parents who know enough not to bring their kids to certain places. I wish all parents were like you.

I just knew you were going to say DisneyWorld! Thank you but one trip to Disneyworld was enough for our family. The lines were horrendous, my older son was terrified (even at 10 years old) of just about every attraction. They much prefer the beach. From what I'e heard Wisconson Dells is about as tacky as they come. Thanks Eric but I'll continue to take my kids to the caribbean and now that they are old enough, Europe. I promise not to let them bother anyone in the process.

Yikes, go away for a few days and look what happens! First of all, of course I know there's a difference between a one year-old and 7 and 8 year-olds. My point was that some kids are good car riders and others are not. Usually the parent knows which kind their child is and that's the best barometer for deciding on long car rides or winding roads. Even when my kids were babies, one was happy as a lark in the car and the other better off sleeping so we timed the rides accordingly.

I think any parent who has taken their child to Hawaii knows clearly that it is one of the best places for family vacations. We've taken our kids four times and every time we stayed in a house on the beach, bought groceries and only frequented casual, family-friendly establishments, which is what most of the restaurants in Hawaii are. Watching my kids play on the beach is my most relaxing "vacation hobby." I don't particularly enjoy frequenting major tourist destinations or big resorts, even without my kids. We like Hawaii for it's natural beauty and warm, friendly people. To suggest my kids have gotten nothing out of travelling is a joke. And Disneyworld for a one year-old is another funny one. That sounds like just about the most stressful and expensive place on earth.

As to the difference between a vacationer and a traveller, hmm..... if soaking up the local culture and "living like the natives" classifies me as a vacationer, as opposed to dining in four-star restaurants and spending my day on tour busses, etc., I'll take the label of vacationer.

I have another question for you Eric. If Hawaii is an unsuitable place to take our children what do you propose we do about all the children *living* there?

looks like alot of folks missed the post re: dengue fever? wonder if deb is there now getting bit. it's now on three of the islands but hana is the most affected.

seems an unwise destination at the moment (but it is a neat place, though not really kid oriented). i rented a cottage on a ginger plantation there. thunderstorms all night. might say it was atmospheric!

I guess I opened a can of worms...

I appreciate everyone's advice & opinions. I agree that there is a time and place for children. There is also a time for couples to travel both alone and with their families....that is the beauty of creating balance in one's life. Hawaii is both family & couple oriented and I agree that it is our job as parents to know the difference when making restaurant choices, etc.

We are looking forward to our little "monkey" joining us on this excursion.

P.S. On the road to Hana, we will keep the windows on the car up to prevent any screaming or poop/pee smells from our little dude from annoying others (ha!)