pvd

If you go to Providence, will you know how/whatto eat? Will you eat quahogs, put gravy on your pasta, drink coffeemilk and know what is a bubbla? Since the whole state of Rhode Island takes about an hour to go from end to end, do you realize that your friends who might live on one side of Providence won't come to your house on the other side of PVD to visit because it's kinda far to travel.
Buddy Cianci, the former mayor was just jailed for racketeering (I think it was that) charges.

Darrin

I've been reading up on Providence tonight, "pvd".
Quahogs (pronounced "ko-hogs") are local clams.
Gravy on pasta is what westerners (and the rest of the world) call sauce.
A "bubblah" is a water fountain, correct?
Any others I've missed?

Gene

Rhode Island is the 2nd most densely populated state after New Jersey. This makes Providence, the state's largest city have it's share of pollution, crime and traffic.

Collette

Hi Darrin, I was bored and went way back on the posts and say that you had directed a question back to me about the people in Providence may take some getting used to... I am a born and bred RIer but did leave the state9 not completely voluntarily I might add). I kive in NC now... where people wave to you when you are driving out of the development ( at first that drove me nuts) and when you ask someone a quetion they might go one for about 15 minutes before they get to the point. Oooh, I think I just did it myself. Anyway, when I go back to Prov to visit my husband insists the people are rude. He love NC people. I say , no the RI people are not rude... they are just not sweetie pie all the time and they have a much more wry and sarcastic sense of humor... ( hey, given the politics, I can't blame them). Hope that answered your question and let us know when you go visit.

PCM

Collette, we should do lunch. I'm born/bred Yankee transplanted to NC, and the slow, sweet-tea, honey-pie way of doing "business" took a fair amount of getting used to. Tell your husband that while Southerners think manners is the absolutely top virtue, to Northerners it can seem a thin mask for dishonesty and insincerity. Northerners value efficiency and loyalty over politesse -- for better or worse. When I go back "home" up north, I can see it with a Tar Heel's eyes and I'm aware of the brusqueness and lack of warmth, and I can miss the friendly atmosphere down here. When I get off the plane at RDU, I feel my muscles relax and I take a deep breath of the soft southern (humid) air. But when I go up north and get off the plane, I feel my mind quicken, I get energized, and I'm ready for adventure and stimulating interactions, as if I'd been dozing the whole time I'm down here.

Collette

PCM.... I hear you and as they say down here.."I know that's right!. We actually almost moved back to RI?Boston area cause my husband lost his job. I had such mixed feelings.. I would have loved being back in the stilulation and physical beauty of NE but the circumstances were all wrong.. a not so great job and pay, a horrid commute on 128, we couldn't sell our house in NC and enen rents were sky high now in RI.. So, I am relieved he just found something here and we don't HAVE to move... I guess I just have to visit more often.. to bad there are no direct flights from RDU!!!

PCM

We've been in the Triangle for 10 years now, but we're about to have to think about whether to change jobs and move one more time before retirement. A lot of people retire here and I can certainly see why, but I'm still hankerin' to head back north, esp. since much of family is there. But not without a lot of reservations myself. I'd miss the climate quite a bit, esp. in the Feb-April miseries. I'd miss being able to walk into a first-run movie without having to strategize too much to get a seat. I'd miss affordable housing BIG time. I'd miss year-round flowers. I'd miss the "'Mornin'"-s I get from total strangers. I'd miss Duke's American Dance Festival. I'd miss A Southern Season in Chapel Hill, but I suppose in Prov., I'd find a great Portuguese/Italian market.

I wouldn't miss the good-old-boy politiks and some other aspects, both "liberal" and "conservative," of the social and political scene here (quotations are on purpose -- neither faction fits the traditional definitions). I wouldn't miss having the only world-class classical music or jazz performances occurring every other year on a mid-week evening in February. I wouldn't miss the smiling insinuation by native-born Suthin Belle's that I still need to learn how to dress their way -- with pantihose and gloves on a 90-degree day. I wouldn't miss the obsession with collegiate sports. And I wouldn't miss the gratuitous, knee-jerk attacks on Northerners, as if that were a totally justified exception to the rule that manners surpass everything else in importance.

Well, Darrin -- you've probably learned more about NC than about Providence, but I think you'll find a lot to like about Providence, a certain amount to get used to, and a few things that will never sit right. Remember that you haven't even begun to understand a new environment when you've only lived there a year or two. Good luck!!!!

Vicki

I can see that most of the posts here are from people who have no appreciation for the Midwest. St. Louis and St. Louis county are wonderful places to live. There are some areas of the city that you wouldn't want to go; however you can say that about any large city. St. Louis city and county are full of beautiful old neighborhoods. The topography is beautiful, but you are landlocked. As far as culture, you have the Muny outdoor opera, Fox Theatre, Forrest Park Museum to name a few. There are great restaurants and winerys. And, like most places, the people are as friendly to you as you are to them. St. Louis has hot summers and cold winters. So, if I were you, I would visit both places and then make up your own mind.

andy

Though it serves only as a base for discussion and not much else, I was just looking thru the Places Rated Almanac.
St. Louis ranked in the 30's (top 360 cities in the US) and Providence was 101 as I recall.

disposal

STL is a toilet

PVD has charm and grace - not even close

as for the northern "attitude"

takes a year or so to get used to (trust me - transplanted midwesterner)
but after that it is as normal as anything...

and don't forget...

Prov is home of "Dumb and dummer"

Clifton

Well, honestly I can't answer the question of where is the best palce to live, for you and your family. I see that the general leanings on the board are far towards Providence, which I know little about. It seems nice enough.

Just hoping to give a fairer look at things from the St. Louis side (my hometown is in the area) than what many here have displayed. I doubt many have more than a 2 day bit of knowledge about the city. Southern? Please... I live in the south now. It's not even close.

St. Louisans are really bad at self-promotion of their city, and agreeably, some parts are rough. Downtown could use an infusion of streetlife. However... there are some pluses -

Good schools in most areas
Low cost of living
Great zoo - Free
Good Art Museum - Free
One of the top Science Centers - free
Missouri Botanical Gardens - best Japanese Gardens in the US - $3
Cahokia Mounds - pre-historic archeological site
Laumeier Sculpture Park
Grants Farm - Free place to take the kids all day to see the Clydesdales, petting zoo, tram ride through the wildlife park (in the middle of the burbs)

And do keep in mind that crime statistics are a little misleading. In St. Louis, the crime is fairly centered in a few well known areas, but that fact skews the stats. I lived in the immediate area for 40 years. Only once do I know of any one personally who was the victim of any crime. That was a snatch and run petty theft. You would think after 40 years, I'd have seen more than that, since I traveled around the city daily for a living, no?

Just do your research and visit both with a mind for what suits you. I'm sure both cities have their advantages.
Here, people are going to promote what they know, just like I have.

Ashleigh

I've never been to Providence, but have heard it's beautiful - and recently cleaned up by the organized crime! not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

As for St Louis, my sister plays in their symphony, and she's very happy there. Like any other city, there are pockets of not-so-great areas just like anywhere else.

Isn't East St Louis technically in IL??!! It's not near St. Louis, MO at all.

Clifton

Ashliegh,

Yes, exactly. St. Louis and East St. Louis are that far apart geographically, but they are separated by much more than the Mississippi and state lines.

Throwing East St. Louis in with St. Louis proper is as uninformed as assuming that Manhattan and Passaic, New Jersey were the same place.

By the way, your sister's symphony is wonderful! Been too long since I've been back to hear them though. I don't usually read the US board, but was a little homesick and thought that the STL bashing was a bit much.

Formerly from the land of...

Nelly
+
Mark Twain
Vincent Price
TS Eliot
Tina Turner
John Goodman
Phyllis Diller
Eugene Fields
Josephine Baker
Kevin Kline
Bob Costas
Chuck Berry
Tenessee Williams
etc.

joesorce

Providence because it's the only place in the U.S. where you can get an AwfulAwful.

soccr

I BEG your pardon -- I believe you can get an AwfulAwful (Awful Big, Awful Good double thick milkshake) anywhere there's a Friendly's, which is most of the northeast!

I think this thread has to be one of the weirder "either-or" questions we've seen on this board. My vote would also be for Providence, but that would be because of the things I like about Providence (many of the advantages of a NE city, e.g. proximity to ocean, culture, history -- without the level of congestion, etc. of others, and also it's pretty), _not_ because I'm in a hurry to trash St. Louis.