Thanks, bella.

I love your home town and it's been a big part of my life since I was a small child. I can see how the wonderful-ness of NY is both a boon and a bane to its residents, though.

Thanks for the friendly response, hdm, and havre a great trip!

Bella, as another NYC resident, thanks for your post - I was formulating a similar post these last few days - but my internet service has been down!

I'm very torn about this issue because when we travel we love to rent apartments or houses in cities - we've done it in Rome, London, Santa Fe, Phoenix - the up and downsides have been well discussed here.

But in the last few years in NYC, this problem has gotten much worse, as you so well describe. It threatens the "creative class" who struggles to live here, it threatens all those residents who are just hanging onto the city by their fingertips . . . while there all some legal monthly sublets in condos in NYC, legal weekly rentals in almost all Co-ops are extremely rare - which is not to say it's not done.

The other pressing issue is that this process and the amount of $$$ to be made encourages developers to tear down small buildings or gut renovate small rental buildings and build these condo-hotels - look at Trump's 44 story monstrosity going up in SOHO. This is happening at an alarming rate in my neighborhood of Chelsea.

Anyway, I know when you're looking for a vacation you're not so interested in the local politics, but I would encourage all those looking for vacation rentals in NYC to really research the properties they are considering renting - if it's for less than a month in NYC, most likely you are violating the building rules and compromising the safety and security of that buildings' residents.

Thanks for your support on this mp.
I am an artist who's been hanging in there in New York by the seat of my pants since 1977, and have survived many things, just as my fellow creative NYers have. I've even testified in City Hall to get fair treatment by the Loft Board when Soho and Tribeca were discovered by wealthier folks after we built it. I'm committed to NYC as my home, although the space available to me financially has been now reduced to 25% of what it once was. So do I want a hotel operation on my floor? You bet I don't.

You are so right.
This phenomenon has grown worse by leaps and bounds in the past couple of years.
I know of the situation at 1 Bank Street in the West Village and it's horrendous.

In my neighborhood alone we are quickly losing all of the priceless local business to this, and are fighting hard to keep at least some part of our neighborhood community flavor alive.

That Trump monstrosity is down the street from my brother's home, where he's lived for 35 years, helping to build the neighborhood, and is now trying to raise his young child.

I agree with you in encouraging Fodorites who are hunting for a cheap rental to at least take the time to research and think about this also, and try to look beyond the surface. THe internet makes it possible without that much effort.

I'm not going to defend the people who sublease and ruin the market, but there's another thought here. I have a number of friends in theatre -- actors, dancers, and tech people. They lease apartments in New York, and a number of them do some national tours and out of town dates. Basically the only way they can afford to keep their New York apartments is by renting them out when they are away -- legally or illegally. I think that's much of the issue in NYC about the whole illegal sublease thing. A lot of people need to supplement their income when out of the city by being able to recoup some of their living expenses in the city. I believe that if you look on Craigslist, that's what a lot of those rentals are. No?

No, I don't think so. A large number of those listings are actually scams....people who advertise an apt. that doesn't exist or worse, one that does but is not theirs to rent. They ask unsuspecting renters looking for affordable housing to wire money to a bank account and then disappear into cyberspace.

Then there are some that are legitimate to the extent that they exist. The "owners" or renters are going away on vacation and want to make some money or need to make some money. This is illegal, any way you slice it. If they own a coop, no coop would allow short term rentals (anything less than a year) and those that do usually require to vet the subletter.

The only legal "sublets" in NYC that I know of are:

>in an owner occupied building Iie the owner owns the WHOLE building)where they can pretty much do what they like

>in a condo building that doesn't have strict rules of subletting.

I have always assumed Worldwide Plaza was the second, but there may be rules limiting the period one can sublet. I don't know.

WWP is more like the 2nd, Offices/conos and a number of corporate owners. Also, it was just sold to a Group that includes BlackRock. So new management coming up, who knows.

The reason I mentioned Craigslist is because the place I first heard about it was from friends who are theatre people who have used it for years to sublet their NYC apartments when they are out on tour. I know a number of people who do that, and the wording on a lot of the ads seem to be the same sort of thing. But the people I know really are "illegally" subletting their rented apartments. As I said, it's the only way they can manage to keep a place in the city while they are away so long.

I'm not sure if Worldwide Plaza is a condominium or a co-op, but I know the listings I've taken or have seen there are all OWNED by individuals, so they are NOT "sub-letting" as they don't have a lease to begin with. I have a strong suspicion that there is a one month minimum there for renting them out -- apparently a rule set by the owners themselves and their board who would be in control. Obviously that rule is not followed to the letter and if it's like many condos, as long as there are no problems, no one seems to care.

I own a couple of condos here in Florida and it is sort of the same thing. One has a 3 month minimum for renting, and you are not allowed to rent to more than two different people in a year. But everyone knows that often some are rented out for just a month at a time, and maybe three or four months in a row to different people. As I said, as long as there are no problems, none of the owners seem to mind. I've never gotten into all that as I rent mine permanently, but others rent seasonally. Now if someone started renting out their unit like a hotel, THEN I'm sure we would all do something about it.

I'm not sure what the new "management" of a condominium does or how much control they have over individually owned apartments. Surely they didn't "buy" the individual apartments which are privately owned? Most condominiums that I'm familiar with are owner run with an elected board. They may hire a management company, but the management company is hired to enforce the rules that the OWNERS set, not the other way around.

Traditionally, condos can more freely sublet and coops have strict rules regarding sublets, because the building holds the proprietary lease.
HIstorically, the majority of apartments in NYC are Coops.

That balance is changing as developers tear apart neighborhoods and destroy local businesses to build glass and steel structures for investment purpooses only. My neighborhood has lost both of our movie theaters (one a landmark), our pharmacy, our video store (with it's world-class film collection) several well-known restaurants to this construction surge. This is widely percieved as the rape of neighborhoods and many are trying to fight the effects as best we can.

There are blocks where most stores are now empty. I realize those facts of of little importance to the casual tourist, except maybe the numerous young backpackers who regularly patronize the budget hotels in the UWS.

My coop has particularly lenient sublet rules, yet night by night rentals still fall outside of that policy.

As far as condos, there are corporate owners who buy apartments and use them as a commerdial venture, renting them out regularly. However, the guidelines for condos in New York City are changing, as a tightening of the rules beginning to happen, and many condo byukdings are beginning to take on some of the more comminity minded aspects of Coop buildings.

If you have some interest in these recent developments, I can refer you to this piece from the NYT, May 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/re...gewanted=print