Hi All,
We are a family of 4, husband wife,17yr old daughter and 70 yr old mum visiting USA for 4 weeks in Dec 07
Our rough itinerary is
LA 4 days(includes Disneyland, universal studio, hollywood,beaches
2 days driving Pacific coast to San Fran
2 days San Fran
1 day Yosemite
2 days Las Vegas
2 days Grand Canyon
Drive back to LA (We will hire a car)
Fly to New York
5 days New York
Fly to Quebec City (for a white Christmas)
3-4days Quebec (dog sledding)
Train to Toronto
Maybe o/n Niagra
Fly Toronto-Chicago
1day chicago
Fly to Hawaii via LA
6 days Hawaii (to warm up)
Is this doable? I know we will be busy, but we want to see as much as possible. We are travelling in Dec to experience a white christmas
Thanks for any help

It's probably doable, but it sounds exhausting. I got tired just reading it.

One day isn't nearly enough time for Chicago, or to experience Yosemite, nor are two days nearly enough time for San Francisco. Same for Las Vegas.

You'll have no time for anything, other than watching a moving slideslow from inside a car window. To each his own, but personally I'd narrow the scope and spend more time in the remaining destinations.

I like to go go go on a vacation too, but I would never attempt your itinerary, especially with my 70 yr old mum. It's a 4 hr drive from San Francisco to Yosemite, then the next day your driving 8 hrs to Las Vegas. You have one day to see Vegas, before you drive 5 hrs to see the Grand Canyon. One day to see the Grand Canyon then you have an 8 hr drive back to LA and then fly to NY the same day. Don't do it! Eliminate something and spend more time in each place.

Thanks for the replies. What do I cut out? Or do I add extra days to cover the travel time?

How long will you be in Toronto? Are you squeezing Toronto, Niagara Falls and Chicago into two days?

One Day in Yosemite is really rushing it. Too much driving.

Cut out Yosimite, and spend the extra day either in SF or LV.

Don't drive all the way back to LA from GC, pick somewhere closer to fly out of -- even Las Vegas would be better, but you can find flights to NYC from just about everywhere.

Skip Chicago if you can only spend 1 day there; or skip Toronto and just go direct from QC to Chi-town.

I don't see any slack in your itinerary for snowstorms. Somewhere during the month of December you will be delayed because an airport will be closed or a road not yet plowed. The south rim of the Grand Canyon is at about 7000 ft and occasionally gets dumped with large amounts of snow. The eastern part of your route can get large amounts of snow too, as well as ice storms that shut everything down. Best to plan for it now and feel really lucky if it doesn't.

Hi R,

I would strongly suggest limiting your trip to the western US. It does snow in the west, you know!

That would allow you more days in San Francisco, Yosemite, and you could add the wonderful, beautiful Natl Parks of southern Utah to the Grand Canyon-Las Vegas loop.

Spread over 3 weeks, this would be a wonderful trip! Then finish off with you week in Hawaii.

Personally, I would never waste another day of my life in Las Vegas, especially if I had to give up time anywhere else in the US!

Happy planning

I'm not a Vegas guy either, but it really does sum up the insanity of our country nicely.

I like your east Coast plan, but you are rushing with driving and short stays in Grand Canyon and Yosemite.

I don't know if you already have your tickets but I'd fly from Quebec or Montreal to West coast. Your hurried
schedule from Quebec- Toronto -Niagra
- Chicago could possibly be skipped to give you the time youi need in the West.

Dear rtccass:

I would concentrate on California, Nevada & Arizona. Spend a few more days between LA & SF. Throw in Lake Tahoe, maybe some wine tasting along the way. You could have a white Christmas in the Sierra Nevada. Or just concentrate on the eastern part of your trip.

Good luck.

MY

Thank you so much for the wonderful replies. Back to the drawing board.
We really wanted to spend Christmas in Quebec City to get the European feel and I'd love to see New York all decked out for the Christmas season. Is there a big chance of snow storms in Dec?
I was under the impression the New York doesn't get snow before Christmas.
Thanks for the idea of fly out of LV capxxx. That would really help I'll see our travel agent re flights.
It seems that flights in Canada are more expensive than the US so we were getting a train from QC to Toronto as a way of getting to Niagra Falls. Not sure if we should stay over night at Niagra or just do a day trip. It was then cheaper to fly to Chicago to get a connecting flight to LA where we fly out to Hawaii. I guess we are a little restricted in the flights available from Oz. We are looking at the whole trip being about 5 weeks (including Hawaii)
DanB At this stage we arrive in Toronto on the 27th Dec fly out 29th (Visit Niagra)Arrive Chicago 29th Depart early on the 31st to get a connecting flight in La to Hawaii)
We are in the very early stages of planning so all comments are gratefully received, will try to add extra days where we can but would like to keep to 5 weeks.

OK---working on the California portion a bit. I'm assuming your direct flight from Australia lands in LA? If so, it's best to keep things in the order you have planned.

I think if you drive the car from California and drop it in Las Vegas you may face a large "drop" charge. It may be a better choice, time and money-wise, to fly from San Francisco to Las Vegas, and pick up another car there (after your 2 days in LV) to visit the Grand Canyon. That way, you would save several days' car rental as well as the drop charge.

As much as I love Yosemite, especially in the winter, it's hard to include it in this itinerary without adding more time there. It is a four-plus hour drive from San Francisco, possibly complicated by snow and ice on the road once you get to Yosemite. It would be a tough drive one day for a look at the beautiful vally, and then the same tough drive in reverse the next day.

You could possible include Yosemite in your drive between LA and SF, but then you would miss the coast drive, which is one of the nicest parts of California.

Or, you could do a round-trip loop from LA to SF and back to LA as originally planned, but you really need a bit more time than you have allotted to California to do this. Say, 4 nights LA, drive up the coast with one night en route to SF (Cambria? Carmel?), then 2 nights SF, drive to Yosemite for 2 nights, drive back to LA, drop the car, and fly to LV in the evening. I think that's doable, but it may take longer to get from Yosemite back to LA airport than I realize, especially with possible complications from December weather.

I would add at least one day to Yosemite. You could also fly to NY from Phoenix after the GC. I'd skip Toronto, Niagara Falls and Chicago and use those days elsewhere.

I would bag Niagara Falls. A lot of the activites are closed in the winter and that area can get a LOT of lake effect snow (as in it snows in November nd you don;t see the ground until April). (I know snow sounds like fun - and is at a ski resort - but when you're trying to travel feet of snow can cause interminable delays due to flight cancellations etc.)

We have only about 4/5" of snow/slush in NYC today and the airports are a mess with dozens of flights cancelled and hundreds delayed. And if the following days flights are full it can even mean a 2 day delay. You're cutting things too close for winter travel.

Lots of issues w/ your plan - many already addressed.

One more small kicker to throw in -- in the winter you cannot drive directly from Yosemite to Las Vegas. The road across the Sierra (the ONLY trans-mountain road from Yosemite southwards) closes usually in Oct and doesn't re-open until May or June.

So you would have to go SW into the central Valley - down to Bakersfield (the armpit of Calif) through Barstow (the REAL armpit) and over to LV. This is a loooong, nasty drive.

I would concentrate on CA, LV and AZ and totally forget about the eastern swing. You barely have time for that let alone another 1/2 of the continent.

(I know in OZ you're used to driving a looooong ways to get places. So do we in the western States - but you are coming in the winter and even on the coast you can hit really nasty weather. It isn't like a summer road trip)

I do not see the appeal of the beaches in in the LA area for Australians.

Don't count on the most direct route from Yosemite to LV because Tioga Pass will probably be closed. In terms of seeing and viewing, Yosemite probably could take two days while the Grand Canyon one full day, unless you plan to do some major hiking to leave the rim.

Count on doing one visit at Hearst Castle (there are a variety of tours available) and a few miles north of the Hearst you can stop to see elephant seals, some of them sharing the ocean side fields with cattle.

Thanks everyone. Looks like we ditch Yosemite and fly to LV (Maybe from San Fran?)It sounds like travelling in winter is going to be a real challenge.
I'll send in a new itinerary for review when it's done.
Thanks again for all the great advice.

For someone who wants to “experience” a white Christmas but has no familiarity with driving in snow, there are some things you should note.

You’ve never driven in snow. It’s a different experience when you’re sliding and skidding and have no control.

For winters in the US, we usually travel with an emergency kit in the car with a blanket, road salt, shovel. (at least I do). I also have an all-wheel drive vehicle, which you may or may not be able to get from a rental agency and which will give you a bit more traction control.

Like others have said, you should give yourself some room for winter weather delays. While it may take x hours to drive from one place to another, if a snowstorm hits, that may turn into another x number of hours on top of your regular travel time. Also, you have to figure in airport delays or cancellations. In February, part of upstate NY had 10 FEET of snow in 8 days. You never know when mother nature will hit you. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/ny...rssnyt&emc=rss

Four weeks in the US will be an awesome vacation. Have a great time.

Rather than flying all the way over to Quebec... how about going to Banff/Lake Louise? You will see the breathtaking Canadian Rockies and it just might make up for missing Yosemite. use the extra days in SF and Chicago... and skipping Vegas isn't a bad suggestion either.

IMHO, Yosemite, GC and the rockies are much more spectacular sights than Vegas or Niagra Falls.

In December, beach weather is iffy.

Aslo, flights are usually much more reasonalble from LAX to LV rather than from SF.

I agree with moneygirl. Do go to NYC. Also, check http://www.weather.com for their weather. Also, there are places where you can check the past Dec temperatures. It helps.
I would take out Las Vegas. And Lake Louise should be amazing. One place I would like to go.
I think Chicago will be VERY WINDY and chilly. I have lived in Chicago and NYC. One day is just passing thru.

I also flew to Australia from the south- it is a long flight. Good luck.