Is bear spray a necessity in Yellowstone/GT for front-country hiking?
Sep 13th, 2013, 07:52 AM
#21
Be sure not to wear sweet perfumes. One bear followed a woman down the trail at Glacier when no one else seemed interesting. I have no idea if he was trying to figure out WHAT that smell was or considering a snack.
The Tetons are gorgeous. One of my favorite places on earth!
Happy singing, clapping trip!
The Tetons are gorgeous. One of my favorite places on earth!
Happy singing, clapping trip!
Sep 13th, 2013, 09:02 AM
#22
>Be sure not to wear sweet perfumes.
Yes that advice is seconded on the second page of the backpacker magazine article I posted above. Will paste some of it below, but here's the link:
http://www.backpacker.com/february-m...l/17302?page=2
The guy writing this is a bear expert, has been studying them for 20 years, so I presume his info carries some weight.
Learn how to stay safe in bear country from myth-busting biologist Tom Smith. By Ted Alvarez
That doesn’t mean scream at the top of your lungs all the time. We’re out there to be part of the flow of nature. Good lord—we don’t want to have this blast zone. That’s stupid. In a lot of Alaska where I hike, I’m sharing the same area with 100 bears. But I never have trouble with them because I make noise appropriately. If you come to a blind spot, and there’s good probability there’s a bear nearby, clap, talk loudly, that sort of thing. If, after all you’ve done, something happens, and there’s a bear: 1) stand your ground; 2) ready deterrent; and 3) yell “hey, bear!”
Don’t hike alone. We don’t have a single incident in all of North America in which a bear has attacked a group of people. Yes, there was an incident in Alaska last summer when a bear charged and attacked a group [it was a NOLS crew, spread out], but to the bear it was 10 groups of one—it was one kid at a time. When you tease these things apart, you find that bears are risk-averse: They will avoid you if you group up.
Keep your distance. In Kenai Fjords, we worked with black bears, and we were able to figure out at what distance—75 yards—people disrupted or displaced them. With black bears, you don’t expect an explosive response—but there were a few bears that reacted like, “Bring it on, little man.” Good stuff to know.
Be aware of the signals you telegraph. Don’t act like you’ve been violated when you get attacked after washing your hair with a fragrance that makes you smell like a 200-pound strawberry. If you smelled a bacon-and-egg shampoo with a vanilla conditioner, wouldn’t you come running? Why would you come into the world of an animal driven by olfactory capabilities and dope yourself to smell like a giant piece of food?
Never, ever, ever play dead unless you’re knocked down by a grizzly. This is some of the most misunderstood advice out there. [And it shouldn’t be needed if you alert bears to your presence, carry spray, and use it.] But if you’re being mauled by a griz? Stay face down, legs spread, and cover your neck with clasped hands. Let the bear unleash its fury on your backpack. Stay still, and don’t move until it’s done. Black bears only attack to kill, so playing dead with one of those will be facilitated by the fact that you will, in fact, be dead soon enough.
Yes that advice is seconded on the second page of the backpacker magazine article I posted above. Will paste some of it below, but here's the link:
http://www.backpacker.com/february-m...l/17302?page=2
The guy writing this is a bear expert, has been studying them for 20 years, so I presume his info carries some weight.
Learn how to stay safe in bear country from myth-busting biologist Tom Smith. By Ted Alvarez
That doesn’t mean scream at the top of your lungs all the time. We’re out there to be part of the flow of nature. Good lord—we don’t want to have this blast zone. That’s stupid. In a lot of Alaska where I hike, I’m sharing the same area with 100 bears. But I never have trouble with them because I make noise appropriately. If you come to a blind spot, and there’s good probability there’s a bear nearby, clap, talk loudly, that sort of thing. If, after all you’ve done, something happens, and there’s a bear: 1) stand your ground; 2) ready deterrent; and 3) yell “hey, bear!”
Don’t hike alone. We don’t have a single incident in all of North America in which a bear has attacked a group of people. Yes, there was an incident in Alaska last summer when a bear charged and attacked a group [it was a NOLS crew, spread out], but to the bear it was 10 groups of one—it was one kid at a time. When you tease these things apart, you find that bears are risk-averse: They will avoid you if you group up.
Keep your distance. In Kenai Fjords, we worked with black bears, and we were able to figure out at what distance—75 yards—people disrupted or displaced them. With black bears, you don’t expect an explosive response—but there were a few bears that reacted like, “Bring it on, little man.” Good stuff to know.
Be aware of the signals you telegraph. Don’t act like you’ve been violated when you get attacked after washing your hair with a fragrance that makes you smell like a 200-pound strawberry. If you smelled a bacon-and-egg shampoo with a vanilla conditioner, wouldn’t you come running? Why would you come into the world of an animal driven by olfactory capabilities and dope yourself to smell like a giant piece of food?
Never, ever, ever play dead unless you’re knocked down by a grizzly. This is some of the most misunderstood advice out there. [And it shouldn’t be needed if you alert bears to your presence, carry spray, and use it.] But if you’re being mauled by a griz? Stay face down, legs spread, and cover your neck with clasped hands. Let the bear unleash its fury on your backpack. Stay still, and don’t move until it’s done. Black bears only attack to kill, so playing dead with one of those will be facilitated by the fact that you will, in fact, be dead soon enough.
Sep 13th, 2013, 08:04 PM
#23
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Just to let you know, I have backpacked and hiked both parks from the late 70s to mid 90s and NEVER saw a bear on the trail. EVER. The first time I saw one was from the road. I did see 2 different black bears on the AT in Virginia. The difference--I always wore a "goat bell" (small cow bell) when I hiked in the west, didn't in the east. Yes, we all joked that the bears would associate that sound with hikers=food but it never came true. In Waterton (north of Glacier) my husband and I were hiking in heavy brush in heavy bear season. I sang every stinking song I knew (camp songs, preschool, hymns, you name it!! 99 bottles of bee on the wall should be used ONLY as a last resort. I think a bear might kill you out of public duty if it heard that song 
)
That said--obey/pay heed to any signs or trail closures. Keep an eye out, talk to the rangers.
And enjoy the parks in September--you lucky duck. It is truly the very best time to go!!! Just so you know--moose in rut are actually more dangerous than grizzlies!!
)That said--obey/pay heed to any signs or trail closures. Keep an eye out, talk to the rangers.
And enjoy the parks in September--you lucky duck. It is truly the very best time to go!!! Just so you know--moose in rut are actually more dangerous than grizzlies!!
Sep 14th, 2013, 01:38 PM
#24
The reason I didnt read all of the posts prior to mine is that I am currently away on a trip and using a stinking tablet in a hotel in perugia eith intermittant wifi.
Read what spio wrote.
We are not bear food. What you do not want to do is surprise them or get too close to a mother with cubs. Make noise when hiking, go in close groups so you look big.
Black and grizxly bear normally act differently. However, in general they are shy and only interested in eating berries. A bear will eat a carcass but most likely is too lazy to do the kill. Not really interested.
Recognize what you see and not by color. In general blackbears are black and grizzlies are brown. Not always.
Grizzlies are usually larger. Grizzlies have much larger claws though this is not the way you would like to recognize them.
Grizzlies have that big muscle hump over the shoulders.
I am not sure I would have the nerver but the instructions for a grizzly attack are to lie on your stomach with your backpack protecting you and your hands over your head and neck. The bear will quickly lose interest and take off.
A black bear may have been stalking you and may view you as a meal. Tye rule with a black bear attack is to fight. Let the bear know you mean business and will defend youself. Be in a tight group. Hit with sticks andthrow rocks at the bear.
Have I ever seen or been involved in a bear attack? No.
Would I do what they say I should? I have no idea.
I was talking to some people and a friend I was hiking with was 100 yards ahead. There were 3 people about 10 yards ahead of him. They saw a black bear a few yards from the trail. They started to run. After about 20 yards one of them turned and took a picture of my friend. The bear is about 15 or 20 yards from him and crossing the trail and looking straight ahead.
My friend is on the trail with his hand on his spray. They emailed him the photo.
Read what spio wrote.
We are not bear food. What you do not want to do is surprise them or get too close to a mother with cubs. Make noise when hiking, go in close groups so you look big.
Black and grizxly bear normally act differently. However, in general they are shy and only interested in eating berries. A bear will eat a carcass but most likely is too lazy to do the kill. Not really interested.
Recognize what you see and not by color. In general blackbears are black and grizzlies are brown. Not always.
Grizzlies are usually larger. Grizzlies have much larger claws though this is not the way you would like to recognize them.
Grizzlies have that big muscle hump over the shoulders.
I am not sure I would have the nerver but the instructions for a grizzly attack are to lie on your stomach with your backpack protecting you and your hands over your head and neck. The bear will quickly lose interest and take off.
A black bear may have been stalking you and may view you as a meal. Tye rule with a black bear attack is to fight. Let the bear know you mean business and will defend youself. Be in a tight group. Hit with sticks andthrow rocks at the bear.
Have I ever seen or been involved in a bear attack? No.
Would I do what they say I should? I have no idea.
I was talking to some people and a friend I was hiking with was 100 yards ahead. There were 3 people about 10 yards ahead of him. They saw a black bear a few yards from the trail. They started to run. After about 20 yards one of them turned and took a picture of my friend. The bear is about 15 or 20 yards from him and crossing the trail and looking straight ahead.
My friend is on the trail with his hand on his spray. They emailed him the photo.
Sep 15th, 2013, 05:45 AM
#25
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From the University of Calgary: Beware of Predatory Male Black Bears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7yoIheOrTc
He points out that of 750,000 black bears in North America, that only two fatal attacks occur each year shows them to be fairly benign. They are safer than dogs, in terms of total number of injuries.
He also points out that bears who act aggressively by making noise, pounding ground with paw (the kind most likely to get pepper sprayed) are NOT, paradoxically, the ones most likely to make the most serious attack. Such bears are acting defensively. The very small minority of ones who are serious problems, will literally hunt (stalk) their prey - and NOT make any noise.
Hiking with only one companion is not a lot better than hiking alone, according to him.
***
There was also an 'unusual' black bear encounter in Nova Scotia this year (google it if interested.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7yoIheOrTc
He points out that of 750,000 black bears in North America, that only two fatal attacks occur each year shows them to be fairly benign. They are safer than dogs, in terms of total number of injuries.
He also points out that bears who act aggressively by making noise, pounding ground with paw (the kind most likely to get pepper sprayed) are NOT, paradoxically, the ones most likely to make the most serious attack. Such bears are acting defensively. The very small minority of ones who are serious problems, will literally hunt (stalk) their prey - and NOT make any noise.
Hiking with only one companion is not a lot better than hiking alone, according to him.
***
There was also an 'unusual' black bear encounter in Nova Scotia this year (google it if interested.)
Sep 15th, 2013, 05:59 AM
#26
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Sep 15th, 2013, 06:05 AM
#27
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And finally: (source: New York Times May 2011)
“Mother bears, whenever they feel threatened or a person is too close, they act very aggressively,” said Stephen Herrero, the study’s lead author. “They make noise, they swat the ground with their paws and they run at people. They want to make you think that they’ll eat you alive, but they almost always stop.”
By contrast, “the kind of bear you need to be afraid of is not feeling threatened by you — it’s testing you out as a possible prey item,” said Dr. Herrero, a professor emeritus at the University of Calgary. “It’s quiet. It stalks you just like a lion might stalk you.”
" While there are about 15 times as many black bears as grizzlies, grizzlies kill about twice as many people, likely because they evolved in open plains and rarely climb trees, Dr. Herrero said. Roughly half of grizzly attacks involve mothers protecting cubs.
The black bear findings... suggest that people should behave differently around different bears. With a mother defending cubs, “you just back away calmly and give it some space,” Dr. Herrero said. “With a predatory bear, you stand your ground, stomp at it, throw rocks at it, whatever you need to do to convince it you’re not easy prey.” "
“Mother bears, whenever they feel threatened or a person is too close, they act very aggressively,” said Stephen Herrero, the study’s lead author. “They make noise, they swat the ground with their paws and they run at people. They want to make you think that they’ll eat you alive, but they almost always stop.”
By contrast, “the kind of bear you need to be afraid of is not feeling threatened by you — it’s testing you out as a possible prey item,” said Dr. Herrero, a professor emeritus at the University of Calgary. “It’s quiet. It stalks you just like a lion might stalk you.”
" While there are about 15 times as many black bears as grizzlies, grizzlies kill about twice as many people, likely because they evolved in open plains and rarely climb trees, Dr. Herrero said. Roughly half of grizzly attacks involve mothers protecting cubs.
The black bear findings... suggest that people should behave differently around different bears. With a mother defending cubs, “you just back away calmly and give it some space,” Dr. Herrero said. “With a predatory bear, you stand your ground, stomp at it, throw rocks at it, whatever you need to do to convince it you’re not easy prey.” "
Sep 15th, 2013, 08:40 AM
#28
Sue,
What you wrote about treating different bears differently is what I have read and wrote in my post.
About a month ago I was very c, lose to a mother black bear with 3 cubs.
She had no interest in us. She went about her business and the little ones kept running after her.
After a while I think she began to feel uncomfortable and took them across a road, up a small hill and all 3 cubs climbed a tree. The mother then came back down the little hill and continued to eat.
After about 10 minutes she went back up the hill, got them back down from the tree and they went away into the woods.
You can see photos of them at
Www.travelwalks. com
There are a fair number of bear photos but the only ones with cubs.
What you wrote about treating different bears differently is what I have read and wrote in my post.
About a month ago I was very c, lose to a mother black bear with 3 cubs.
She had no interest in us. She went about her business and the little ones kept running after her.
After a while I think she began to feel uncomfortable and took them across a road, up a small hill and all 3 cubs climbed a tree. The mother then came back down the little hill and continued to eat.
After about 10 minutes she went back up the hill, got them back down from the tree and they went away into the woods.
You can see photos of them at
Www.travelwalks. com
There are a fair number of bear photos but the only ones with cubs.
Sep 16th, 2013, 06:13 AM
#29
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Oh my goodness, this is all wonderful -- I feel like I'm getting a seminar in ursine behavior! Honestly, I really don't think we will see any bears. But I like to be alert and educated and safe.
The last time I saw a bear on a hike was in 2003 in Canadian Rockies, when I was with a group. It was at one of those pretty lakes that look green or blue from the minerals. We were hiking on one side of a river and all of a sudden I heard a buzz-saw on the other side, in the woods. Nope, it was a mom and 2 cubs. She came down to the river's edge and all of a sudden all 3 walked in. It couldn't have been more than 100 feet across; we were on a trail slightly higher than the riverbank. Our guide got very quiet and serious and told us to sing and clap and not run but pick up the pace a little bit. As we were walking back to the trailhead the mom bear and cubs started walking the same way. Slowly, in the water. Finally the cubs started playing around and the mother bear sat down and we walked on, still singing and clapping. It was beautiful to see them in the wild, but I wouldn't want to be any closer!
Honestly, I really don't think we will see any bears. But I like to be alert and educated and safe. The last time I saw a bear on a hike was in 2003 in Canadian Rockies, when I was with a group. It was at one of those pretty lakes that look green or blue from the minerals. We were hiking on one side of a river and all of a sudden I heard a buzz-saw on the other side, in the woods. Nope, it was a mom and 2 cubs. She came down to the river's edge and all of a sudden all 3 walked in. It couldn't have been more than 100 feet across; we were on a trail slightly higher than the riverbank. Our guide got very quiet and serious and told us to sing and clap and not run but pick up the pace a little bit. As we were walking back to the trailhead the mom bear and cubs started walking the same way. Slowly, in the water. Finally the cubs started playing around and the mother bear sat down and we walked on, still singing and clapping. It was beautiful to see them in the wild, but I wouldn't want to be any closer!
Sep 16th, 2013, 07:38 AM
#31
Saw this today. Amazing photos -
http://www.ktvq.com/mobile/news/the-bison-got-away/
http://www.ktvq.com/mobile/news/the-bison-got-away/
Sep 16th, 2013, 07:54 AM
#32
Perhaps you've heard this old story (copied from another website):
"Park rangers advise visitors to wear bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper."
"Park rangers advise visitors to wear bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper."
Sep 16th, 2013, 08:17 AM
#33
> It was beautiful to see them in the wild
That's exactly what we shouldn't lose sight of in all our discussions of being informed and prepared.
The usual cliche: you are at far more danger traveling to and from the park than you are from the bears living in the park.
If you do see one it will almost certainly be a privilege, not something to be dreaded at every step.
That's exactly what we shouldn't lose sight of in all our discussions of being informed and prepared.
The usual cliche: you are at far more danger traveling to and from the park than you are from the bears living in the park.
If you do see one it will almost certainly be a privilege, not something to be dreaded at every step.
Sep 16th, 2013, 12:31 PM
#34
Bells are commonly referred to as dinner bells. A joke.
I have been told by several rangers that bells are useless. The sound doesnt carry and dosnt have presence.
Calling out periodically and when approaching a curve in the trail is best.
While you sometimes see bears off trail, they are not dumb. They learn that it is easier to change locations by walking on a trail. So be aware.
As spiro wrote. There's a reasonable chance you will see a bear. Bears are a little more special than most animals. Everybody wants to see them.
I have been told by several rangers that bells are useless. The sound doesnt carry and dosnt have presence.
Calling out periodically and when approaching a curve in the trail is best.
While you sometimes see bears off trail, they are not dumb. They learn that it is easier to change locations by walking on a trail. So be aware.
As spiro wrote. There's a reasonable chance you will see a bear. Bears are a little more special than most animals. Everybody wants to see them.
