JJ5

Cassandra, I feel for your situation. And actually cd said exactly what I was going to post, but better and more concisely. You don't know where the California son will end up, and you do have to take one day at a time. And sometimes after a thousand or two thousand of those "one days at a time" things are altogether different. Or not. But you can't anticipate it all at this point.

My friend has all her grandchildren from one son (four of them) in Virginia, NOT because of her son- who would like to move back. But because her daughter-in-law got the CEO job of a company there ten years ago, and then after her 4th baby and umpteenth nanny, decided she would rather be married to anyother company CEO. So he is still there because of visitation, schooling completion and $$ problems from the mess, and because his kids still need to see their mother. He has full custody. He hopes to move back here in two more years. This is just one tale- and there are hundreds of variations of this. Sometimes events are not what anyone really "chooses". Health, economics etc. all can change things and fast.

Where I grew up in Chicago there were many immigrant families surrounding us, that were almost exactly of Go Travel's parents' philosophy. I'm not saying it is wrong either, but my family and parents had an almost opposite cultural bias. And it wasn't a baby-sitting issue either, which we don't do much of at all. But more of a "you haven't seen your mother for three weeks!!!" issue. Mom cooks and you come "home" for Sunday dinner. Not every Sunday, but at least once a month.

And there is another side of this that no one has started to address about snowbirding, and that people rarely do on the whole. And that is when the snowbirds are too old, become slowly more handicapped, have the heart attack etc.- how does it play out?? I have had two very close friends at different times, that have had real physical collapse and breakdowns from trying to take care of parents 5 states away. Bashful's original 3-6 month etc. situation works great when you have health. NOT, when you don't. And those things can change pretty quick and are sometimes just not anticipated. My one girlfriend's mother moved to FL when she was 65 and then at 75 had a stroke and expected NOT to go into any home there, nor to have to come back North. Parents might not want you "in their hair" or want to babysit for you, but that doesn't mean those same people aren't going to want you to take care of "them" when the end times come. It works both ways.

Bashful can stay flexible, move for up to six months a year etc.- but it is silly to kid yourself that your relationship will be the same as if you didn't. Because it won't. 3 months away will be much less intrusive to the grandparent/grandchild relationship.

I am so lucky because I have both parents at 84 and 86, and taking care of them is not always easy. But I could never "choose" another lifestyle because I "own my own life". I love them, they ARE my own life. Actually, my own children are the ones I get to see the lest for quality time. We are all very busy people. But it is not because of distance or disaffection, at least. Don't know how long I will have the energy for it all, but probably until I stop breathing.

Jocelyn_P

Cassandra,

Just to throw another consideration out there (and please ignore this if you've recently moved to a different house): if you move, even if it's closer to your son, you're potentially taking away something very important to him: his childhood home. My parents have always moved around a lot so my "home" is my grandparents' house. My DH, though, loves to go "back home" to his parents' house. Even though it takes a full day of travel to get there, it's his safe place and he would be crushed if he didn't have that house to go back to. I know that theoretically home is wherever your family is, but think of all the memories that are built in a childhood home.

Dreamer2

This has been such an interesting post to follow. I don't know if I'm a cold heartless person, or will change my tune when I have grandchildren. I am just shocked to read that adults think it's wrong for elderly parents to live their own lives, such as selling the family home or taking extended vacations.

Maybe I'm just burnt out from caring for my own ailing parents for about 10 years until they passed on, and being a stay-at-home Mom for the last 15 years, BUT - I am looking forward to freedom and independence once my younger is off to college. I fully expect my kids to follow their dreams to whatever ends of the earth they take them, and would never want them to feel an obligation to stay geographically close or to look after me.

The world is such a small place now; I believe I can continue to have wonderful relations with my kids, potential grandchildren, and extended family no matter where we all are.

And they last thing I would do is make a decision now, on the basis of how things might be in a dozen years or so. Dreams change, as does reality.

JJ5, your girlfriend's mother had 10 good years doing what she wanted. Why is that a bad thing just because she fell ill now? Your girlfriend shouldn't feel guilt or resentment. She has to try to be direct with her needs, as well, and see if her mother is willing to compromise in some way. We can't be all things to all people, because it will never be enough. That's why I suggest setting boundaries, and keeping your own preferences a priority.

But how 'bout that other story of the CEO dumping her family once she got them all moved! She must be a charmer... I feel for that Dad; he got a raw deal. And I admire him for what he's doing for his kids. One divorce really has such a ripple effect, and can affect so many people in a family, imho.

klr6773

I am in the middle of trying to secure a transfer from NJ to WA/OR. The minute I told my mother,she made her mind up that she couldn't be without my daughter(2yrs)who happens to currently be her only grandchild.The bond is definately special to both of them. Mom wants to go,Dad doesn't really want to move from the "comfortable bliss"of his routine in oh-so-affordable Central NJ. I am nervous about Mom's with or without Dad statements that she's made a few times. I admit, she does watch my daughter for free. As a single mother, I definately can't afford child care here. What worries me more than finding child care in WA is that my daughter doesn't "have a Dad" and now she may not "have her Grammy" My selfishness to want my Mom close lies in daughter, not my wallet. I've been flipping back and forth over my once definate transfer because I don't want Mom to feel like she needs to choose between me,my daughter,and sister already in WA and her husband and my other two sisters(one who is expecting,butwill be stay at home,so Mom definately won't see the baby as much as my daughter) Any opinions?

JJ5

Dreamer2, what you say is all true. Yet my kids are long gone (over 10 to 15 years gone) and I'm still looking after BOTH my parents. My grandmother lived to be 99. My siblings do help, but they have a similar belief system to yours. My brother is out of the country, and my sister is too busy with her teen age family, and I don't begrudge her anyway.
That doesn't change the fact that I will INSIST that they move, and they will not. Nor that when I show up for cleaning/groceries etc. and want to have someone in to fix things, that they don't want "anyone else" in THEIR house. Some people are wonderful people and GOOD people, and yet believe what they believe and will not compromise. Look at some of the people on this board with politics!!! Do you think you are ever going to change their minds? Hardly! I have left them alone for months (ONCE) and come back and they will just "do" with less and less. They will not change anything.

But you didn't really get my point. My girlfriend is a saint, much better than I actually, and her mother will NOT compromise. Much less than my parents. They are not of this culture and "entitlement" belief, for one thing. For another they have never for one second forgotten who is the parent and who is the child. I/(she also) can be 70 and I will still be the child. This was a generation that was not our "friends" if you know what I mean. Nothing like what is the norm now. And as people age to be VERY elderly and yet still have all their smarts (as mine do) that does not mean that they want to restrict their OWN wants and needs for yours, especially if they are of the belief that parents/respect for parents is paramount over all.

My friend, Betty, actually moved to a third state and traveled extensively as the problems with her hospitalized mother and various very sick grandchildren left her so pulled, that she had a nervous/physical collapse. Now her mother is in a nursing home and will not talk to her- after years and years of running between two states. And all the 10 years were not good years for Betty, let me tell you. Her mother still wanted her on a plane when she needed a room painted or anything broke. Just because people move, doesn't mean they become entirely independent either, especially with advanced age. Do you thing age makes people more "easy-going". HA-HA-HA!! In a perfect world a lot you say would be absolutely true. But I see few people in my situation in a perfect world.

And klr6773, you are at a BIG crossroads. THINK! What do YOU want.
I might be the perfect person to tell you this, because I lost my first husband in 1970 and had two small children under 4, only 1 year of college education, lived in a very big city (Chicago) and was planning to be a housewife most of my life. My parents wanted to become a VERY big part of my childrens' lives. And I don't know where I found the strength. Maybe it was my general pig-headedness. But I moved and live DIRT POOR for over 5 years. I bought a house with $3000 from selling my tv, furniture everything and we camped on a floor. But I wouldn't let my parents become my childrens' parents, and it was the absolute right thing to do, I know that now. I ended up getting 3 degrees and lots of good jobs, developing my own lifestyle as my children did theirs, without being in the child role myself. My kids are real high achievers, much more than I. And they do have some heavy stuff they lay on me even now, for being "motherless", "fatherless" and "Grandmaless" for certain times during their 4-10 year old period. BUT hang in there and do think about doing that transfer. She is only 2 now. You will find a Georgeen (she was my first nanny and my best friend to this day- I'm going to play Scrabble with her in a few minutes.) And there are good people out there that will help you.

I'll say a prayer for you.

Cassandra

This gets more and more interesting -- seems to me as babyboomers age, it will be a bigger and bigger issue -- obviously with a lot of facets to it.

Comment: my mother moved to Florida in her 40s. She had her (big) family when she was young, was widowed 2ce and divorced once and wanted a full start-over. At the time, I was sad about losing my "childhood home" though it had gone soon after my father (1st husband) died, but I still considered the northeast my "roots". But I understood completely her need for a new life, and at the time cheered her on.

She's now been there over 35 yrs. and some of my sibs are very bitter that she went so far (the ones still in the NE) and didn't make more of an effort to follow her grandkids' lives. Of course, the same sibs made no effort to go see her, either.

I've done a lot of commuting, with and without DS, to see her; but now she's infirm in many ways, and it's a colossal hassle to monitor the facility where she is, her doctors, her insurance, her taxes, etc. I'm not getting help from any sibs except 1. And I keep thinking about how to spare my son this kind of headache, since he's an only child.

Comment 2 has to do with his being an only child. I suspect parents with more than one child are more able to split off attachment to any one of their children -- I don't mean reduce love or anything like that, I mean a level of separation. [side note: something about 20th c. psychology seems to make "separation" from parents the end-all and be-all of mental health. As I look at the state of the nation, with such deep-seated me-first motives and such lack of inter-generational and community compassion, I wonder if that was such a great idea. We blame parents for everything, yet we spend all years after the first 12 trying to pry children away from their influence. Talk about mixed messages.]

So, since I'm much closer in age to my mother (20 yrs. difference) than to my son (35 yrs. different), I'm now much less concerned about living my own life - which of course I'm doing since before the nest emptied -- than I am about prepared for the inevitable narrowing of that life and my world in a decade or so.

Time goes by so fast, and suddenly your knees are gone, and you've hidden your keys from yourself, and it also dawns on you that family is 100 times more important to you than a boss or tour guide or the lunchgroup or the book group.

klr6773, my heart goes out to you. You have been swept up into the winds of the professional diaspora that scatters people from their home town to clear across the country in an eyeblink -- with all kinds of cultural messages of: "you go girl; ya gotta follow your road to success; you can have it all." And you are now stuck in a situation where no matter what you do, someone will deeply disapprove, and someone else will get hurt (including you and your child).

I don't have a "Cassandra's hint" solution for you, although it does seem like your heart is trying to tell you something. (Not only will your daughter not have her "Grammy," but you won't have your mother, which doesn't always represent a victory over failure to separate.) But as others have reminded me, nothing's permanent. Good luck and warmest wishes.

Dreamer2

Hi again,

Just wanted to add that my "belief system" is born of experience. Believe me, I know that you can never please everyone. I was the caretaker for my parents at a very young age (they had me late in life) even though I had three brothers. They even moved to an in-law suite built onto my home. But it was just never enough. And finally when it was interfering with my ability to care for two toddlers, my husband put his foot down. This was a blessing for me, and lo and behold, I found out that everyone survived and got over their huffiness once the boundaries were better established. Don't forget, that even besides mental deterioration, personality changes can occur from physical illness, medications, and just old age. I don't think my parents ever intended to be so demanding, but the reality was overwhelming. It's hard to switch the parent/child roll within a family, but sometimes it is the child who has to make the "right" decision, even if it is the hard one. I don't want my own kids to ever get the guilts, or feel it is their job to appease me or care for me. I brought them into this world so I could care for them, and raise them to be independent, not the other way around.

klr6773

I thank both of you,Cassandra & JJ5 for your thoughts and wishes! DOn't mean to change the topic of this post,but I saw that it's kinda "me in reverse!" What lead me to the initial thought of transferring several months ago was the overwhelming cost of living in NJ. AND the fact that some random man drove past me the other day and spit on my windshield for no reason!That was the icing on my downward spiral cake! Traded in car for a "newer" 2001 ,and what happened? insurance went up another 400 to 1700/yr (over 10 years since last ticket!God help if I ever get one!) Added to the 135 K 1 BR shoe box sized condo( newly completed with chain smoker downstairs!)I'll never be able to afford upgrading out of on my own. I realize that I can never "step down" from my extremely stressful management position at work to have more time with daughter here. Don't mean to whine on all of your shoulders, very few in life have it easy.I find it more helpful talking to a bunch of strangers than rehashing with family/friends.It's nice to get opinions and support from people with a third party perspective. I thank you all!

JJ5

Cassandra, you have said it so well. Kudos to the time you put into your "mixed message" summary. It really, truly is just that.

klr6773, your car costs alone are staggering. There was a time when I spent almost half of my income on child care, and I do know that has to be a huge consideration for you, as well.

I can really, really understand that things work both ways. Your mom and yourself both sound like you have much love for your daughter, and that is wonderful. Also the bond they have formed will be one that lasts. It will.
As Cassandra says, it is a shame that business structures in the USA can be so difficult on the basic reality of human and let's face it, mostly women's, lives.

snow_wolf46

Hi i am new here and not sure how this works i just am looking for advice i been so torn for long time now i had lived in colorado for 4 years where i was very happy but my kids that are grown still lived in indiana where i am from i have never like it in indiana but my daughter had a baby my 1st grandson 5 months ago and needed me to help her so i came back i still dont like it here and not happy with living here but i love being with my grandson it breaks my heart to think of leaving him but makes me not happy and little depressed to live here and she will not move with me some has said to follow my heart but i cant cause he has part of it and colorado has the other part i hope someone out there has some kind of advice for me

dfrostnh

Tough one Snow Wolf. I was surprised that this old thread came back up. More than two years later our son and his family live only a few miles away and now there are two grandchildren (the first was born when they lived over a thousand miles away). Our oldest granddaughter comes over every morning so I can take her to daycare. She adores her grampa and he is tickled by her fascination for our home renovations, the trucks, the workers, etc. They even looked at a tool catalog together one morning (she's 3) and the next morning she wanted to look at it with me.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that my parents also live close by yet never spent much time with our son. They tend to be reclusive. He never developed a close relationship with them. I loved the description another poster gave of the cards and notes she sent while in FL to keep in touch with her grandchildren. We did a similar thing the 12 weeks our son was in boot camp and the year he was in Japan etc. My husband asked me to have a regular weekly family dinner so his father could come as well as our son and his family. Our son calls him every day.
It's a shame that Colorado has half your heart and you aren't able to live there right now. I hope you can work something out or maybe live there part of the year.

faile626

My parents keep on moving away from me. Should I be worried?

Seriously -- my dad loves the hot, hot, heat of Arizona and swears that he'll never move back to the Northwest. My mother's family lives in So Cal and vacations in Arizona, and that's why they moved there a few years ago.

But my husband's family, all of our friends, and my brother's family all live in Washington or Oregon. We just moved to Annapolis, but plan to move back to Seattle ASAP. My parents already have three grandkids living in Portland. They keep in touch through MySpace, emails, webchats, and regular phone calls, but it takes a LOT of effort. They also fly them all out for three weeks each summer. My mom really is doing a great job at keeping everyone connected. But my dad...well, you know most grandpas just don't DO that sort of thing. I worry about what will happen when one of them dies -- they're young, but everybody goes someday -- and leaves the other alone. What then? I can't bear the thought of either living all alone. Do I move to them? Do I move him or her to me? I have no idea. And what about when I have kids? Do they get to hang with Grandma and Grandpa three or four times a year? That sucks!

Argh!

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that sure, you'll miss your family, but only you can know your priorities and abilities. Everyone will miss you, and you'll miss everyone. But if you really love Florida, then go. Just expect to have to work extra hard to keep involved in everyone's lives. My parents decided that they loved the weather and being close to my mother's family more than they loved having close relationships with their kids and grandkids. Sad, but that's how I see it. I wish like crazy that I could have tea with my mom on Sunday mornings, but I guess that's just not in her playbook right now.

NewbE

You could move to Arizona to be closer to them. Life is about choices.

faile626

I can't move to Arizona. My husband has a PhD in Things That Are Done in Very Few Places.

marleneawe

DH and I go to Florida for three months, leaving right after Christmas. This year will be the fifth year we have done this. Considering I have a son in Florida, a grandson in Mississippi and a grandson in Georgia, also a granddaughter in Mississippi, that I get to see, I do not miss my children and grandchildren back home. We live our lives for us, not around our children and grandchildren. Life is to short. Besides they all have their own lives, and go on long trips etc and do not live their lives around us. We check back home with everyone off/on.

cabovacation

My grandparents were the light of my life. And now I can see that I am the light in the lives of my grandchildren. They always miss me terribly when I am away. They are young. I figure that by the time they are 10 or older I can stay away longer - or they can come with me - because by then they will be going on their own vacations to camp or busy with school.

For now, I choose not to stay away too long. They jump up and down with excitement every time I walk in the door. Of course I love it - but it is for them that I stay nearby.

And they have babysitters, so that's not a big issue.

However, whatever floats your boat!