Family kicked off flight
Jul 11th, 2008, 09:18 AM
#101
Neo - please explain what "hatred" there is in joesorce's response, cause I don't see any. I see disappointment and disapproval but not hatred like some of the things that posters have said here. I don't think joesorce was referring to parenting class suggestions but rather to the following types of completely gratuitous comments like these:
1.<Mom should have been charged for two seats> Three is more like it!
2. I like the pregnant sister missing teeth segment- it gives it that homey hill-billy rant charm
3. The Greyhound bus comment
4. When did the Jerry Springer show start taping in Seattle
5. How were these women impregnated
6. Well a paper bag over the head perhaps
7. Grandma looks a little butch to me.
8. They look like white trash to me.
I am surprised that this type of discourse doesn't bother you.
1.<Mom should have been charged for two seats> Three is more like it!
2. I like the pregnant sister missing teeth segment- it gives it that homey hill-billy rant charm
3. The Greyhound bus comment
4. When did the Jerry Springer show start taping in Seattle
5. How were these women impregnated
6. Well a paper bag over the head perhaps
7. Grandma looks a little butch to me.
8. They look like white trash to me.
I am surprised that this type of discourse doesn't bother you.
Jul 11th, 2008, 09:34 AM
#102
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"Neo - please explain what "hatred" there is in joesorce's response, cause I don't see any."
I don't see any either. I think you missed the point. I don't see any "hatred" in those other comments you're listing either. But if he's going to talk about everyone else's "hatred" by suggesting if they point out things about other people they find distasteful then it must be "hatred", then I contend his pointing out his distaste for people who do that is equally showing "hatred". Why not? Otherwise, you're saying it is "hatred" for someone to point out their distaste for a lack of taste, manners, or culture, but it's not "hatred" for someone to point out their own distaste for people who point out those things. Kind of a hard line to draw.
But thanks for proving my point about taking sides. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that by your defending his position on the matter, you've made very clear to us your own opinion on the same matter. That's not surprising -- just the way it is.
And as someone else has pointed out, by going public with their getting kicked off an airline for the result of their actions, they invite comments. Some people might be embarrassed that they had failed to control their children to the point that it was necessary to remove them from an airline, and they'd learn from it, then go off and keep quiet about it. Not these people. They want to flaunt their own lack of control and manners. By doing so they have "invited" being made fun of. Just as anyone going on the Jerry Springer show invites being made fun of. Hence my Jerry Springer comment.
I don't see any either. I think you missed the point. I don't see any "hatred" in those other comments you're listing either. But if he's going to talk about everyone else's "hatred" by suggesting if they point out things about other people they find distasteful then it must be "hatred", then I contend his pointing out his distaste for people who do that is equally showing "hatred". Why not? Otherwise, you're saying it is "hatred" for someone to point out their distaste for a lack of taste, manners, or culture, but it's not "hatred" for someone to point out their own distaste for people who point out those things. Kind of a hard line to draw.
But thanks for proving my point about taking sides. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that by your defending his position on the matter, you've made very clear to us your own opinion on the same matter. That's not surprising -- just the way it is.
And as someone else has pointed out, by going public with their getting kicked off an airline for the result of their actions, they invite comments. Some people might be embarrassed that they had failed to control their children to the point that it was necessary to remove them from an airline, and they'd learn from it, then go off and keep quiet about it. Not these people. They want to flaunt their own lack of control and manners. By doing so they have "invited" being made fun of. Just as anyone going on the Jerry Springer show invites being made fun of. Hence my Jerry Springer comment.
Jul 11th, 2008, 10:24 AM
#103
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I'm not the person who told someone else not to post her opinion, Patrick.
What I was saying was that if you tell someone not to post her opinion, you then have no right to post yours.
Disagreeing with postings is very different from telling someone not to post at all.
Telling someone that their opinion is shameful is not telling them to shut up. Actually I'd rather people talk and let their true colors come out, that might be the only way for them to realize what a-holes they have become.
What I was saying was that if you tell someone not to post her opinion, you then have no right to post yours.
Disagreeing with postings is very different from telling someone not to post at all.
Telling someone that their opinion is shameful is not telling them to shut up. Actually I'd rather people talk and let their true colors come out, that might be the only way for them to realize what a-holes they have become.
Jul 11th, 2008, 10:43 AM
#104
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joesource, EXACTLY!
But do you really not understand that when you take people to task for being "condescending to other people" and tell them that they need help, then YOU YOURSELF are being condescending to them as well? I realize you feel that's OK because you don't understand their feelings or opinions and you do understand your own, but still it's all a matter of pot calling the kettle black! It's all one vicious cycle. Basically, as soon as someone tells someone else he shouldn't be pointing out flaws in other people, then he is doing exactly what he is accusing others of doing -- pointing out flaws in other people. Get it?
But do you really not understand that when you take people to task for being "condescending to other people" and tell them that they need help, then YOU YOURSELF are being condescending to them as well? I realize you feel that's OK because you don't understand their feelings or opinions and you do understand your own, but still it's all a matter of pot calling the kettle black! It's all one vicious cycle. Basically, as soon as someone tells someone else he shouldn't be pointing out flaws in other people, then he is doing exactly what he is accusing others of doing -- pointing out flaws in other people. Get it?
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:07 PM
#106
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you and I have a different idea of what hatefulness is, Patrick. To me, "Trailer trash" and "Should put a bag over her head" is just not the same as saying that people should not be so hateful.
I don't understand why people found in necessary to go further than "disruptive people should be thrown off the plane". If you want try and make people think I'm being just as hateful as they are, well, then, good for you. Keep thinking that way. Twisting people's words to fit your ramblings is what you like to do so keep doing it.
I don't understand why people found in necessary to go further than "disruptive people should be thrown off the plane". If you want try and make people think I'm being just as hateful as they are, well, then, good for you. Keep thinking that way. Twisting people's words to fit your ramblings is what you like to do so keep doing it.
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:10 PM
#107
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The kids didn't seem very threatening to you? Maybe they were a little worn out from their misbehavior on the plane or maybe they actually sensed they were in trouble for how they had acted. Having raised 5 kids, I have to say that how they act at one point is no indication of how they acted an hour earlier. As for the flight attendants, I don't know what they could have done besides speak very firmly to them and explain the rules and consequences. Not like they could give a time out in the rest room or use little plastic handcuffs.
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:14 PM
#108
That's the point some are trying to make, coldkelly. That most of us don't know what happened on that plane but were so quick to judge. And that the judgement seems just based on appearances. Very prejudicial.
I don't see anything wrong with saying "these people must have behaved badly if the airline felt it should eject them". That's different than "look at her teeth, I can only imagine what a nightmare she was on that plane".
I don't see anything wrong with argument or to take someone to task for something they've posted on a forum. But some of the judgments above seem totally based on looks or preconceived notions.
I don't see anything wrong with saying "these people must have behaved badly if the airline felt it should eject them". That's different than "look at her teeth, I can only imagine what a nightmare she was on that plane".
I don't see anything wrong with argument or to take someone to task for something they've posted on a forum. But some of the judgments above seem totally based on looks or preconceived notions.
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:17 PM
#109
Patrick you should work for Bill O' Reilly. He likes to sway away from the subject-at-hand like that and try to make the argument all about something else entirely. It's an art-form, I give you kudos.
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:23 PM
#110
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Well at least one other passenger on the plane was talking,
"Southwest passenger Pat McElroy passenger was on the flight with the Slaughter family. He told a local TV station that, “It was the flight from hell. I never experienced anything like it in all my years of flying.”
The passenger said the children kept moving around when the seatbelt sign was on. He also said the kids were shouting, going up and down the aisle being disruptive."
"Southwest passenger Pat McElroy passenger was on the flight with the Slaughter family. He told a local TV station that, “It was the flight from hell. I never experienced anything like it in all my years of flying.”
The passenger said the children kept moving around when the seatbelt sign was on. He also said the kids were shouting, going up and down the aisle being disruptive."
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:24 PM
#111
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Geez.
Did the pro-family people suddenly wake up?? Ya'll say what you want, but the fact remains that the family's behaviour was a threat (or the airline thought it was) and SW had ever right to shove them off--hillbilly-like or not. Had I been involved in the quibble, I would've done the same thing--to anyone.
BTW, I do remember that many folks made fun of the woman who was kicked off for being too "raunchy" in her way of dressing, which, frankly, really didn't put the airline in any danger.
Just shut the kids up and we'll ALL get along....or drive!
Done!
Did the pro-family people suddenly wake up?? Ya'll say what you want, but the fact remains that the family's behaviour was a threat (or the airline thought it was) and SW had ever right to shove them off--hillbilly-like or not. Had I been involved in the quibble, I would've done the same thing--to anyone.
BTW, I do remember that many folks made fun of the woman who was kicked off for being too "raunchy" in her way of dressing, which, frankly, really didn't put the airline in any danger.
Just shut the kids up and we'll ALL get along....or drive!
Done!
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:34 PM
#112
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This puts a different spin on things:
``We did indeed have the flight from hell," said Pat McElroy. ``I have never experienced anything like it in all my years of flying. Shouting, chaos. It wasn't the kids that were out of control so much as the adults."
``We did indeed have the flight from hell," said Pat McElroy. ``I have never experienced anything like it in all my years of flying. Shouting, chaos. It wasn't the kids that were out of control so much as the adults."
Jul 11th, 2008, 12:44 PM
#114
No, it doesn't put a different spin on things. This is what the focus should have been on all along.
The behavior was unacceptable. The criticism was for those who blamed it on other things, like you did at one point Marginal (and thank you for taking responsibility for your own words, few here will do the same. )
The behavior was unacceptable. The criticism was for those who blamed it on other things, like you did at one point Marginal (and thank you for taking responsibility for your own words, few here will do the same. )
Jul 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM
#115
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Joesource, you really don't get it do you? You think someone thinking that someone should put a bag over their head is hateful, but someone telling someone that they need help for thinking that is not. All you're really doing is saying "If it's MY standards, then it's NOT hateful (or wrong, if you prefer that word). If it's someone else's standards that I don't agree with then it is hateful (or wrong)."
But the bottom line is that I don't think of any of these things as hateful! Geez, just because you think someone is fat, ugly, or uncouth sure doesn't mean you HATE them, does it?
And twisting words or changing the subject, Clark? No, I don't think so. Whenever someone criticizes someone else for criticizing someone else -- I find it difficult to think that one criticism is OK, but the other is not. It's no different than the laughable old "go ahead, I know you want to get the last word in". Anyone saying that is clearly trying to get the last word in himself. It has to take at least TWO people both trying to get in the last word. Otherwise there wouldn't be any attempt by either to do so. Whenever someone says, "go ahead and get the last word" what they're really saying is "I have now given the final RIGHT point which should be the final word, so you shouldn't try to respond to my opinion."
So go ahead those of you who want to -- when you think someone is out of step criticising other people, then go ahead and criticise them.
But the bottom line is that I don't think of any of these things as hateful! Geez, just because you think someone is fat, ugly, or uncouth sure doesn't mean you HATE them, does it?
And twisting words or changing the subject, Clark? No, I don't think so. Whenever someone criticizes someone else for criticizing someone else -- I find it difficult to think that one criticism is OK, but the other is not. It's no different than the laughable old "go ahead, I know you want to get the last word in". Anyone saying that is clearly trying to get the last word in himself. It has to take at least TWO people both trying to get in the last word. Otherwise there wouldn't be any attempt by either to do so. Whenever someone says, "go ahead and get the last word" what they're really saying is "I have now given the final RIGHT point which should be the final word, so you shouldn't try to respond to my opinion."
So go ahead those of you who want to -- when you think someone is out of step criticising other people, then go ahead and criticise them.
Jul 11th, 2008, 02:43 PM
#116
Nobody's saying that it's not okay to criticize. Just that "no teeth" or "butch looking" is not a very good REASON to criticize.
Criticize their behavior all you want, especially if you were on the flight. (Why aren't more passengers speaking out, aren't they due a refund on a "flight from hell"?)
And these flight attendants, they're trained to handle TERRORISTS but couldn't quiet down this one family? God help us.
Criticize their behavior all you want, especially if you were on the flight. (Why aren't more passengers speaking out, aren't they due a refund on a "flight from hell"?)
And these flight attendants, they're trained to handle TERRORISTS but couldn't quiet down this one family? God help us.
Jul 11th, 2008, 03:14 PM
#117
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"And these flight attendants, they're trained to handle TERRORISTS but couldn't quiet down this one family? God help us.
"
I guess the flight attendants should have wrestled the wee ones back to their seats and used those plastic restraints to keep them seated. The women also wanted "compensation" along with an apology so apparently they are worldly enough to be aquainted with that concept. I am sure if anyone had touched one of the kids to quiet them down they would be seeking lots of compensation.
Also I said white trash not trailer trash.
"
I guess the flight attendants should have wrestled the wee ones back to their seats and used those plastic restraints to keep them seated. The women also wanted "compensation" along with an apology so apparently they are worldly enough to be aquainted with that concept. I am sure if anyone had touched one of the kids to quiet them down they would be seeking lots of compensation.
Also I said white trash not trailer trash.
Jul 11th, 2008, 04:13 PM
#118
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Little Emily smacks little Mary upside the head. Little Emily's mother smacks Little Emily upside the head and says, "never smack anyone". That's fine. We all know the mother was merely correcting "BAD" behavior, so it was fine for her to do what she was saying not to do.
OK, got it.
OK, got it.
Jul 11th, 2008, 04:36 PM
#119
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I liked the comment that "the media wasnt giving the whole story" as most media outlets would rather sensationalize a story then give the facts. And they sure do love to bash the airlines!
We dont know how the adults reacted when asked to control the children. And if you notice in most cases the airlines do not respond and give thier side of the story.
As a flight attendant I can tell you, your not removed from a flight just becuase your children are misbehaving. My opionion , and I was not there is that there was a verbal problem between the crew and the adults.
In the last year we have seen, the girl with the short short skirt, the two girls who claimed they were too pretty to be served and a handful of others who happen to make it on Larry King and/or Matt Lauer.
Did you also notice the recent media coverage regarding the crew that was "late" arriving to the gate im Miami and the angry group that boo'ed them and several of the passengers made threats (so says the media) and the crew walked off... again I wasnt there but why does the media make it sound like the crew was irresponsible "the crew was late" and not stuck on an inbound flight from another city that was delayed.
We dont like being "late" anymore than you do. And Im sure the crew were exceeding a 16 hour day, no food, no sleep. "Late" by no fault of thier own. And yet they are personally threatened.
At times I wish I had chosen another career...
Laura
We dont know how the adults reacted when asked to control the children. And if you notice in most cases the airlines do not respond and give thier side of the story.
As a flight attendant I can tell you, your not removed from a flight just becuase your children are misbehaving. My opionion , and I was not there is that there was a verbal problem between the crew and the adults.
In the last year we have seen, the girl with the short short skirt, the two girls who claimed they were too pretty to be served and a handful of others who happen to make it on Larry King and/or Matt Lauer.
Did you also notice the recent media coverage regarding the crew that was "late" arriving to the gate im Miami and the angry group that boo'ed them and several of the passengers made threats (so says the media) and the crew walked off... again I wasnt there but why does the media make it sound like the crew was irresponsible "the crew was late" and not stuck on an inbound flight from another city that was delayed.
We dont like being "late" anymore than you do. And Im sure the crew were exceeding a 16 hour day, no food, no sleep. "Late" by no fault of thier own. And yet they are personally threatened.
At times I wish I had chosen another career...
Laura
