richnindy

What can I expect weather-wise visiting Denver the first weekend in December? Also, will we need to rent a car to get around? Thanks!

vjpblovesitaly

www.weather.com and www.wunderground.com give historical averages.

Loni4865

It depends on where you are staying as to if you will need a car. If you are downtown you will not need a car, likewise you can get a shuttle to some of the tourist towns. In those areas you can walk to most places also.

tekwriter

The weather in Denver any time of the year is completely unpredictable! In early December, we could have sunny, mild (40s-50s) weather or a blizzard, or both! Your best bet is to check the forecast a few days before you leave.

You would generally need a car to explore any place outside of Denver, but downtown Denver is very compact and easy to get around on foot, or via the free 16th St. Mall shuttle system. There are also buses and Light Rail to get to other areas of town and the suburbs. If you want to get up into the mountains, you need a car because there is no other way to get there (I've never heard of any "shuttle to some of the tourist towns.")

richnindy

Thanks very very much!

PeaceOut

You can get to the mountains without a car. From downtown, you could take the ski train to Winter Park. It goes up in the morning and returns in the evening. You can only buy a one-day roundtrip ticket, though. If you don't ski, there's a shuttle through Winter Park you could take to explore.

fmpden

The Ski Train is a fun ride EXCEPT it doesn't starting running until the weekend of Dec 27

PeaceOut

fmpden, thanks for correcting me. It's a shame the ski train doesn't run all year round. I guess they could still take the Amtrak to Fraser, then use the WP shuttle from there.

fmpden

That is a complicated way to do it. The Ski Train is just that -- a ski train to Winter Park. With checking the schedule I am not even sure it ever runs daily until maybe March. Not like the old days when parents put their kids on the ski train for the day. It is a fun relic.

PeaceOut

With the price of gas, I'd hope the ski train gets smart and runs more often! Maybe it will, as Winter Park gets more developed.

PeaceOut

P.S. The "old days" were just last ski season for this family. My husband volunteers on it.

fmpden

My guess that the demand isn't there for daily service. Before I-70 and lots of world problem, the ski train would make several stops along the route through NW Denver, picking up kids. Don't know if it ever ran weekly but a lot of Denver kids learned to ski at Winter Park before Vail, Copper, Keystone ever existed. And Winter Park is still a part of the Denver parks department. Owned by the Denver tax payers.

PeaceOut

But Denver has entered into an agreement with InterWest to develop Winter Park. Which will be a good thing, if they don't overdo it.

fmpden

The agreement is to develop a destination resort. A direct train connection from the airport would be a plus but not practical now. The city trying to shift the focus from a day skier to a traveler. It will be a slow process. That area has not seen the ski growth that I-70 corridor. Been some day dreams about putting a tunnel under Bertha. Now there is discussion about light rail or other mass transit from Denver to Frisco. That will not make WP more attractive.

PeaceOut

fmpden, you're right. WP needs to attract the overnight guests, so they're building a new village at the base area, which is sorely needed. Its architects' drawings look attractive, and it's going up quickly.

WP/Mary Jane is such a good mountain that a new base area will surely attract more travelers. We actually prefer driving Berthoud over driving I-70 up and down the tunnel.

We voted against the Berthoud tunnel, and we would vote against it next time, too. I haven't heard any talk of that idea recirculating, though. They've done a lot to improve Berthoud pass. It also makes a lot more sense to use the existing train tracks IMHO and fortify the train use.

richnindy

Wow, what a lot of information! Now I want to take the Ski Train!

Thanks to everyone.

fmpden

PeaceOut, you are overlooking a number of constrains that really impacts the situation. First, that rail corridor is a main line for UP with heavy usage and in some place is still single track which really screws up usage. Without checking my notes, I am also certain Moffat tunnel is single track. You cannot can run any type of dependable regular passenger service without clean track. Second, Berthoud pass is not the big problem but the junction of 6 and 70 at Empire. Although a tunnel would add a high level of convenience, I don't know why you would vote against it other than cost because a tunnel would have made it far more accessible. And the proposal for toll tunnel probably was not work but it would not have been nice.

The semi long term forecast (2020) for congestion on I-70 is frightening. There are a number of proposals for increasing I-70 capacity but there is at least one group that opposes each proposal. And most are proposals are flawed so it becomes a question of what trade-offs or compromises are you prepared to accept. And most people say, "NONE !!!" But something has to be done. Money is the issue. The state invested most of its highway funds in the I-25 rehab funds for the next 20 years or so. Complicated issues with very difficult solutions.

PeaceOut

fmpden, I'd be in favor of a rail line, right up I-70 and direct to Summit County and Vail. I agree that 70 is a nightmare during the ski season especially. We'd better get smart and use trains in this country IMHO.

We're a bit protective of Winter Park, having had a place there since the late 70s. We like its off-the-beaten track character.

We didn't like the idea of all that money, and blasting a tunnel. Berthoud Pass is not as bad as people think, except for the really bad storms when 70 is a nightmare, too.