chicago

For your consideration, here is Carl Sandburg's great poem, "Chicago" (anyone know a good one about Philly?):

CHICAGO

HOG Butcher for the World,
Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,
Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;
Stormy, husky, brawling,
City of the Big Shoulders:

They tell me you are wicked and I believe them, for I
have seen your painted women under the gas lamps
luring the farm boys.
And they tell me you are crooked and I answer: Yes, it
is true I have seen the gunman kill and go free to
kill again.
And they tell me you are brutal and my reply is: On the
faces of women and children I have seen the marks
of wanton hunger.
And having answered so I turn once more to those who
sneer at this my city, and I give them back the sneer
and say to them:
Come and show me another city with lifted head singing
so proud to be alive and coarse and strong and cunning.
Flinging magnetic curses amid the toil of piling job on
job, here is a tall bold slugger set vivid against the
little soft cities;

Fierce as a dog with tongue lapping for action, cunning
as a savage pitted against the wilderness,
Bareheaded,
Shoveling,
Wrecking,
Planning,
Building, breaking, rebuilding,
Under the smoke, dust all over his mouth, laughing with
white teeth,
Under the terrible burden of destiny laughing as a young
man laughs,
Laughing even as an ignorant fighter laughs who has
never lost a battle,
Bragging and laughing that under his wrist is the pulse.
and under his ribs the heart of the people,
Laughing!
Laughing the stormy, husky, brawling laughter of
Youth, half-naked, sweating, proud to be Hog
Butcher, Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat, Player with
Railroads and Freight Handler to the Nation.


- Carl Sandburg

Bob

found a Philly poem (a little more current than the Sandburg ditty):

I Died on a Summer's Day in Philadelphia


Only a passerby;
but somehow its streets felt like home,
as if it chose to adopt this timorous exhausted outcast.
I fell in love.

JFK Square.
Sounds and colors
spinning in circumference around me:
practicing jazz band
obsidian trombone
crimson saxophone
tawny cymbals
snoring homeless on a newspaper-bejeweled bench
rolled up trousers and oxford sleeved businessmen
lemonade vendors in a frantic ballyhoo of opposition
half naked boys splashing rousing water
crashing from the sky like ice cream from heaven.

The metro orange line.
Running from bed to bunk
to the bottom surface of any city.
A vagabond that found comfort
in the haze and heat and Broad Street.
I waned off at Logan Circle;
feet in the water, free of worries,
layed full length on my back,
overhead the city voluptuous and vast,
rolled and wrapped me in its black.

by Helga Tawil - www.helga.com - 1997

Daniel Williams

Of course in addition to poetry there are other (supposed) measures of greatness...

There's a broadway musical "Chicago", isn't there? Can't think of one about Philly.

Then again, there's the academy award winning movie "Philadelphia". Can't think of one named "Chicago"...

Then there's the Elton John hit "Philadelphia Freedom" (what a great song!). Never heard of Chicago Free! Does this mean people in Chicago are less free? "Motown Philly" by Boyz-2-Men; Chicago less Motown? Then there's the Broadway hit song "Chicago"...Is Philly not worthy of Broadway?

You guys are hilarious and it is fun to think about...now I've got "Philadelphia Freedom" stuck in my head. Maybe Elton John is subliminally telling me that I should take the job in Philly. (At least it's better than having Britney Spears "ooops I did it again" stuck in my head like I did yesterday.)

Cheers Dan.

Jeanette

One last thought on this, some make it sound as if these qualities that Sandburg's poem features are out-dated and in the past. Maybe on the North side and out in the all the fancier "burbs"- but not really in S, SW, West Chicago proper. There are more Eastern European, Hispanic, Asian, and Black new-comers coming to Chicago right now than in the past few decades. (All working their ***** off.)Ford is opening up their biggest distribution plant near Ford Heights, UPS has centered here on the West side, ElectroMotive is still in McCook, I-80 corridor is opening new Convention Center and industry every day. Some manufacturing is returning. I'm not marketting Chicago- but downtown and the North side is small in comparison.
Distances are totally different than in Eastern cities. All the students I know, in about 6 colleges closest to me, all need cars to survive. Public transportation is NOT like in the Eastern cities. From where my mother lives (SouthWest side Chicago- Ashburn
District) it takes 10 block walk, 2 busses and 1 hour or more to get to downtown area. The only people I know that would tell you that public transportation is ok are from limited areas of the North side. Most value education for their children above work, but not all- and those that do can not always back it up with $$$ support, especially their daughters. The song that comes to mind (you are probably too young to remember it)that
reflects Chicago to me is a old 50's one called "Get a Job."

marilyn

Jeanette, you sound like you think the North Side and suburbs and downtown are less reflective of "Chicago" than the south and west. I've lived in Chicago and northern suburbs all my life and I don't really recognize a lot of the things you say. Yes, maybe geographically the south side is bigger, but I don't know how you can say it is more typical. There's the real split in Chicago: not between races or ethnic groups, but between north and south siders!

kim

My husband and I both grew up in the Philadelphia area, and have recently lived in Chicago. Hands down - Chicago is the best! Chicago is a world class, vibrant, clean, safe city. In terms of cultural activities, I'd say Chicago is just a slight step ahead of Philly - but both cities are awesome in that regard. There are as many wonderful restaurants in Chicago as in Philly -- you'll just have to get used to Chicago's version of pizza. Public transit in Chicago is pretty good if you're planning to live in town. We lived in Lincoln Park which is just north of Downtown - and we could walk, cab or train pretty much anywhere we wanted. If you like to run, bike or rollerblade you cannot beat the trails in Lincoln Park and the awesome lake view! Spend a weekend in Chicago, walk by the lake, eat the food and check out the entertainment ... I think the choice will be obvious...you'll love Chicago!!

kristian

I've been to Philly almost a dozen times in the last 4 years. Chicago, I've been to three times. Both cities are great...the best margarita I ever had was at "su casa" in Chicago (how's that for a reason to pick a city).

But I think Philly wins out, mainly for the reason that many mentioned...so much to see so nearby. You just never get tired of the east coast! I haven't seen too much of the philly suburbs, except those in Jersey, and I wasn't thrilled...a lot of it seemed stuck in the 70s with strip malls and such. But Philly is a fascinating city to me, and once you have a Cheesesteak from Jim's, how can you live without?

Daniel williams

Thanks as always for all the thoughts. At very least, one day I think I'll have to make it out to Chicago to see what all the fuss is about.

Interestingly, I spoke to two friends who lived in Philadelphia in the past 4 years. They had a slightly different spin. Both found there are racial tensions in the city, particularly in the outlying areas. However, they both did find that Center City Philadelphia was an area where people are used to greater diversity and those of different backgrounds mingle more easily and are generally more respectful and appreciative of differences.

I thank you all for all your thoughts. Although Chicago does sound fantastic in many ways, I believe I am convinced that Philadelphia is the better choice for me of these two. So, now I think I've narrowed it down to Montreal or Philadelphia, maybe Toronto with the right job...(although I WOULD consider a high-paying job in NYC or Boston, and why not? with enough money, Paris or London would be too fabulous to refuse...well, I can DREAM, right?).

DAN

Jeanette

Good luck to you, Dan! You have a spirit of adventure and should find your new "place" successfully- and hopefully it will be a good fit.

Marilyn, you have proved my point. You live on the North side and in Northern suburbs of Chicago your whole life so you can't "understand" what the public transportation problem is. Have
you ever been in Englewood, Marquette Park, Hyde Park, Garfield Ridge, Beverly, Bridgeport, Brighton Park, Ashburn or any of the other 30 or so Southside Chicago neighborhoods? I have lived on all sides of Chicago, and wonder why so many North siders think their Chicago is the only definitive one. Population numbers, physical area, work history of the region, purpose are all centered South of the Gold Coast area and all the way into Indiana. Look at our Major's personal background. It just isn't accurate to represent Chicago as small areas of Lincoln Park, Bucktown, and Downtown- which is what happens again and again on this forum. Very much like saying you "saw" NYC when you only visited the isle of Manhattan.

Marilyn

Well, actually I have been to Clearing, Beverly and a few other south side neighborhoods. You misunderstood me: I was saying that YOU were making statements that didn't reflect my experience from living in north side neighborhoods. I am not referring to isolated pockets on the north side, but to neighborhoods such as Independence Park, Ravenswood Manor, Rogers Park, Albany Park, and others I have lived in--NOT downtown, Bucktown and Lincoln Park. Yes, I know Chicago is a huge metro area, but please acknowledge that real people DO live north as well as south. Also, I may be wrong, but I think that most younger people relocating to Chicago WOULD be talking about areas like Old Town, DePaUL, Lincoln Park, etc. And yes, tourists DO typically see the areas oriented to tourism, which in Chicago are downtown and points north more than south.

Jeanette

Glad you have come down to see us sometime. Know that there are a lot of people (tourists too) coming in to go to the South Side -35th Street- right about now. And some of them are actually young. They also go to the Museum of Science & Industry, Hyde Park, University of Chicago and tons of other places. More than half of the population lives South and they do not
have good public access except for maybe the Orange line to Midway, so please don't say that it is not a problem.

emil

Gosh Jeanette, Can people have opinions and perceptions different from your own? You seem to have misunderstood some comments.

Kristy

What's with all the bickering. As long as you live and work in the downtown area, you don't need a car, nuff said. When tourists come to Chicago, they think there that Downtown is Chicago, they usually don't care about the north side, the south side or the burbs. I know there is more to chicago than downtown because I've lived here all my life, but that's not what matters - very few tourists or newcomers venture outside of downtown unless they have relatives there so please respond to the message in a manner that is helpful. And, in case anyone cares, I am from the north side and think that it is as reflective of Chicago as any other area of the city.

Kristy

JoeTro

Sorry to resurrect this thread (hope your decision worked out, OP) but I am finding myself with basically the same potential question of which of these two cities in which to live. In additional to all of the information here, I'd be curious to know about apartment rental affordability (say 1 BD in Center City/Rittenhouse versus say Streeterville or near Boystown)

nytraveler

You will probably get more responses if you mke a fresh post. Also - why not just look at real estate sites for the areas you're interested in.