We did Zion and Bryce last Thanksgiving week, and I'm trying to come up with a plan for this Thanksgiving that comes close to being as much of a success as last year's trip.

I've thought about Canyonlands and Arches, but are there other areas in Utah or vicinity that are prettier, better for hiking? Is the weather prohibitive by the end of November?

We are open to suggestions. My husband and I are willing to fly wherever, but we meet our kids for this, one coming from Dallas and one from Phoenix. We've done Sedona, GC and Monument Valley, previous years, but for the sake of our Phoenix contingent...one working and one in school so on a budget, we do need to keep it close to them so they can either drive or fly inexpensively.

Any suggestions? We all love hiking. Will Canyonlands and Arches be a let down after Zion and Bryce? (I've even thought about returning there it was such fun).

Thanks for any help.

One other question. If everyone flies we try to meet at the same airport, rent one car, and drive together. (Last year it was the LV airport) What is the best airport for Canyonlands and Arches? SLC?

I think you would really enjoy the hiking at Arches, particularly Delicate Arch and Devils Garden. Canyonlands is so vast, and our time was so limited, we just hit the high spots there; it has a ton of hiking opportunities. The thing that's different from Zion/Bryce is there is no lodge within either park- that to me is one of the beautiful things about those two locations- it makes it so accessible for a wide range of people, so handy in a family where age/physical limitations may come into play. We did not take advantage of rafting, 4WD, or mountain biking while we were in Moab, but you might want to check out these activities. We've been to these areas in Sept. and May, so I don't know the weather for Moab. Both times we flew into SLC, picked up a vehicle and headed down to Moab- not a terribly long trip. My vote for motel is Best Western Canyonlands in Moab- location in the middle of the Moab main strip, good basic amenities. I don't think you could go wrong in any decision when it comes to UT- it's a wonderful destination! Have fun.

I've been to all the national parks in Utah -- twice apiece -- and just about every national monument and state park as well. Arches and Canyonlands are as good as it gets for hiking. Stay in Moab and you'll be able to spend a week doing outdoor activities.

Check this link for weather info:

www.nps.gov/arch/weather.htm

You will NOT be disappointed with a trip to Arches and Canyonlands. If you like areas like Zion, Monument Valley and the Grand Canyon then you will enjoy the scenic beauty of this area. All the national parks in Utah are different and beautiful in the own way.

There is so much to do in the Moab area that we usually try to spend a week and still don't have time to do all we would like to do.

I've never been in November so I don't know about the weather then. I would think river rafting would be out, but renting a 4 x 4 and doing some of the dirt roads like Shafer trail is a lot of fun. There are plenty of bike trails. Moab is a biking meca.

Arches and Canyonlands both have a lot of hiking trails. Delciate Arch is my favorite.

SLC will probably be the cheapest airport to fly into. Grand Junction, CO would be the closest major airport.

Utahtea

Thanks so much for the enthusiastic replies! As I said in my original post, Bryce and Zion were so fantastic, I was afraid this might be a let down. Just don't seem to hear as much about Canyonlands and Arches on this board.

Are the hikes comparable to those in Zion? We did most of the day hikes in Zion with the exception of actually getting into the river for the Narrows--too cold in Novemeber. Our daughter and s-i-l completed Angels Landing...I got part way through the portion after Walters Wiggles then made the mistake of looking down over my shoulder as I was hanging onto the chains and had to turn back. Son and husband didn't make it much further than I did. Are there similar hikes in Arches or Canyonlands where people with even mild cases of acrophobia have a problem?

In regard to biking, are they available to rent in Moab?

Thanks for the weather link Paul--will check that before making our final decision, but otherwise it looks as if this is where we'll go.

Again, thank you all for your replies. I feel better about my selection hearing how much you all enjoyed it!

just got back from that area. the colorado river is way down and no rapids above moab. but everything else is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. you can hike everywhere. i liked the road to the needles district south of moab. you see a different stunning scene around every curve. you look up at dead horse point, then can take a tour on shafer trail on the white rim to below dead horse point, then drive out on d.h. point and see where you were! you can see to tomorrow.

i think my favorite is capitol reef. torrey is a sweet, tiny town and great hikes available through the washes. i would read up on the history of the settlers, also the mighty forces that made that magnificent scenery. on way from moab to torrey, stop at gobelin state park.

In terms of airports, are some of you going to take Southwest, or are you all taking other carriers?

United Express flies into Grand Junction (no SWA there), which is about an hour and a half from Moab in decent weather. It connects through Denver, which may be a stumbling block if there's ice and snow. In the winter, I generally try to connect (from Durango) through Phoenix, Houston, or Dallas. In the summer, Denver's fine.

I'm thinking it's about 4-5 hours from Moab to SLC, given good weather, but you have to cross some areas that can get a little hairy in the winter. Phoenix is farther away (6-8 hours?), but you have a better chance of decent roads during inclement weather (except around Flagstaff).

The hikes at Arches are not the types of climbs you experienced at Zion; they're more slickrock scrambling and hiking- not lesser or easier, just a different environment. Search out hiking info on www.gorp.com, click on "national parks" on the main page. Believe gorp.com has good hiking info on Canyonlands as well. You definitely can rent bikes in Moab; think there's info on gorp.com; also look at www.moab.com. If you stay in this area for a while, I think it's worth a day trip to ride down to check out Natural Bridges National Monument; look at www.nps.gov. It took us about 3.5 hours or so to drive from SLC to Moab- I don't remember any particularly difficult passages.

Again thanks for the responses on this. I'm going to have to file them in our "to do another day" file, unfortunately, and am really disappointed. A fly has gotten into the ointment in the form of a scheduling conflict, with one of the kids now unable to leave until Wed evening, and as we all have to fly out Sunday, it's just not going to be enough time. lt; I was getting so psyched about the area!

So...now plans change, and we'll have to be closer to Phoenix where he can just drive up and meet us at a destination we'll already be at. The logistics of planning for 5 people coming from 3 areas, and 4 work schedules meshing, is overwhelming. Anyone want to wave a magic wand for me??

Anyway the thought is now to center ourselves in Flagstaff and just do day trips. I'll probably post another thread though my planning enthusiasm is waning, but if anyone knows of any cabins or the like in that vicinity, I'm all ears. Thanks again for the info you've given on Moab--it wasn't in vain--we will make it, just not this November, sadly. It would have been perfect, if only...

To: OliveOyl

I'm sorry you have to change you're plans.

I hope you realize that Flagstaff is at around 7,000 ft. elevation. If you get a cabin make sure it's not up in the mountains which are at even higher elevations and will be colder.

Walnut Canyon National Monument is just east of Flagstaff and it has a nice easy hike to see the ruins.

North of Flagstaff is Wupatki National Monument. We haven't done all the little hikes, but we did one and it was interesting.

Utahtea

Yep, just tuck those Moab notes back for another time- and do plan to go. I was going to recommend a visit to the Navajo National Monument up above Tuba City, but the ranger-guided hike to Betatakin & the permit-only hike to Keet Seel are from Memorial Day to Labor Day only. We didn't get a chance to do these hikes- only the short mini-hike that's open year round, but we plan to go back. It's an interesting place, but not sure if it's worth the car ride up there and back from Flagstaff just for the mini-hike. Look at the nps.gov site. If you stay in Flagstaff, check out Lowell Observatory. I think the Leonid meteor shower is at the end of Nov., so that would be a cool place to check it out. Look at www.lowell.edu.

If you don't mind taking a LONG day trip, go up to Canyon de Chelly.

There are two roads with views into the canyon. There is only one 2 1/2 mile hike you can take into the canyon to White House Ruin. All other travel into the canyons is permitted only with a park ranger or other authorized Navajo guide. We did the half day trip and it was very interesting and scenic.

http://www.navajoland.com/cdc/

Utahtea

Thanks for sticking with me in these new plans, guys! I've dug out my Fodors AZ '98 and have been working out side trips. Between that and you all, have made definite progress and am now more enthusiastic about this than I was earlier.

Walnut Canyon Nat'l Monument is definitely on the list. According to the guide book, you can actually enter these dwellings, as opposed to say Monteczuma's Castle where we viewed from afar. Am really surprised and delighted they permit it.

We plan on doing Sunset Crater, maybe Lenox Crater then Wupatki Nat'l Monument another day.

I checked Lowell's site (thanks RB) and if it is current, the best viewing for Leonid's Shower will be Nov 18, more than a week before we'll be there. Still hope to do the Observatory one evening, but it would have been great to see the shower!

The kids have mentioned Canyon de Chelly before, and after you mentioned it, Utahtea, I looked at it in more depth in the guide book. It sounds beautiful! Hopefully we can do one of the longer guided hikes, so may spend one night there to give us more time. Hopefully weather won't be a factor.

On the way up to Flagstaff (or way back to Phoenix), there's the West Fork Trail, in Oak Creek Canyon, I'd like to do some of too. Have driven through that area, so pretty, but never hiked. Our daughter works for ADEQ and does not have kind things to say about Oak Creek, which falls in her district, BUT...I don't have to drink it, just look, so should be fine. gt;

So--we can make a good trip after all. Now all we need is a place to stay and we'll be set. Have spent several hours looking at websites, but not much exciting has materialized yet.

Thanks again for suggestions. Does this look too ambitious for a 5 or so day stay? (We'll head up a day or so before our s-i-l can get off and he'll meet us up there.)