Behavior at the movies, etc.
Jun 29th, 2001, 10:44 AM
#41
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Well noone has mentioned the CELL PHONE issue and that is the one that bothers me the most. Turn off your damn cell phones!!!
And if you all are so concerned with the youth talking, hollering, etc, why don't you go to GROWN UP movies where they would never go!!! Get it?
And if you all are so concerned with the youth talking, hollering, etc, why don't you go to GROWN UP movies where they would never go!!! Get it?
Jun 29th, 2001, 10:52 AM
#43
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I don't think anything that I've said is "buying into racism." Stereotypes are often based on some fact and just taken to an extreme. Are all NASCAR fans "white trash"? Are all gay men well groomed? Do all black females talk in movie theatres? Of course not!!! But they are all stereotypes based on personal observations by quite a few people.
I was born black and will die black. That doesn't mean I can't comment on anyone else who is black! That's like saying all Jews, gays, whites, men, etc. will automatically like others of their own kind and always agree. And that's just silly!
I was born black and will die black. That doesn't mean I can't comment on anyone else who is black! That's like saying all Jews, gays, whites, men, etc. will automatically like others of their own kind and always agree. And that's just silly!
Jun 29th, 2001, 11:13 AM
#45
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xxx-
You suggested going to grown up movies to avoid loud teenagers; unfortunately they like to go to the grown up movies too and make noise. When my husband and I saw Schindler's List several years ago, there was a group of obnoxious kids sitting in front of us, laughing at even the most heartbreaking scenes. I think it must be worth the $10 to some kids, even to sit through a movie they're not interested in, just for the opportunity to be rude to others. I'm certain this isn't true of all teenagers, but it's usually the jerks you tend to remember.
You suggested going to grown up movies to avoid loud teenagers; unfortunately they like to go to the grown up movies too and make noise. When my husband and I saw Schindler's List several years ago, there was a group of obnoxious kids sitting in front of us, laughing at even the most heartbreaking scenes. I think it must be worth the $10 to some kids, even to sit through a movie they're not interested in, just for the opportunity to be rude to others. I'm certain this isn't true of all teenagers, but it's usually the jerks you tend to remember.
Jun 29th, 2001, 11:14 AM
#46
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Well said, Adam!
As for Cindy: "If Adam wants to sign on to racist comments, he is free to do so." Since when it is racist for a person of the same race to make statements about others of the same race?? Is it racist if I, as a Caucasian, were to say that there are a lot of loud and drunken white males at a NASCAR race? Uh, hello Cindy, these are observations and comments, not racist situations!
As for Cindy: "If Adam wants to sign on to racist comments, he is free to do so." Since when it is racist for a person of the same race to make statements about others of the same race?? Is it racist if I, as a Caucasian, were to say that there are a lot of loud and drunken white males at a NASCAR race? Uh, hello Cindy, these are observations and comments, not racist situations!
Jun 29th, 2001, 11:35 AM
#47
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I am really, really sorry to say this, because it is so sad, but I do agree with Kathy & Jim. The young blacks do talk continuously through the movies. Cannot comment on the white youths, because it is predominantly black at my local theater, but I suspect the same issues abound. It is very disturbing. And you can't shush them, they get nasty and curse you out. At the adult movies it is worse, not only are they loud and vulger, but they have their toddlers with them! The language they use in front of these babies is disgusting. And another sad fact, these are 17 year old girls bringing in their toddlers. It all comes down to a total lack of respect - for themselves, their children and their neighbors. What has happened now is that none of the white folk in the 'hood will patronize a 'black' movie. If you think the talking is bad at an animated or general film, you should see what goes on at a film like 'baby boy'. Talking throughout a movie may seem like a small thing to fret over, but if you look at the bigger picture, this is just a hint of the problems we have in the next generation coming up. Now, back to the travel threads....
Jun 29th, 2001, 11:53 AM
#48
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Bravo Adam for your response! I get tired of having people constantly try to impose their sense of political correctness on me, people that aren't even of my race criticizing me if I, heaven forbid, don't think a comment made about my ethnic background was racist. Plus, I don't think that an impartial observation that young african american males will make comments throughout a movie is racist. It's just an observation. Just because the word "african american" comes into play, it automatically creates a presumption that a comment is racist. White, female teenagers in the suburbs where I live are forever whispering to each other across their seats to tell each other how cute Matt Damon or Leonardo DiCaprio look. I agree, very irritating, but I don't think i'm a racist because I made that statement. Yes, it may have been a generalization, yes, the subjects of the statement are not of my ethnic background. Now tell me, because I made this statement, am I racist?
Jun 29th, 2001, 12:15 PM
#49
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I'm the black man who earlier agreed with Jim that young black males do a running commentary at movies. But here's what I think is funny: The knee-jerk liberals explain it away by saying all teenagers behave that way. I'll bet my last dollar that anyone who says that has never been to an inner-city movie theater in a black neighborhood.
There are cultural differences among people -- let's just admit it.
There are cultural differences among people -- let's just admit it.
Jun 29th, 2001, 12:17 PM
#50
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Let's put the blame where it should lie: The owners of the movie theaters that don't kick out offending parties or enforce the "guidelines" of the rating system.
(Can't say "rules" or "laws" because there are no movie police issuing tickets to under 18-year olds in R-rated movies.)
Also blame the studios themselves for watering down intelligent stories for the spending movie-going audiences aged 14-24. Even non-adult themed movies -- I admittingly laughed my @#$ off at the crude 'n rude AMERICAN PIE, but I know the intended audience was high school and college kids.
I get P.O.'d at any teen in a R-rated movie. And yes, I did see 'em when I was underaged, but I was also turned away at a few, too. I'm not too old to know that not all "lobbyists" work in D.C. -- some were ushers.
And I agree about the old foggies, too, who see a scene and it reminds them of their life that they have to chime in on. "Oh, speaking of Julie Roberts, she was in PRETTY WOMAN, and my daughter is a whore, too!"
While I'm at it, make the owners follow Martin Scorsese's and Roger Ebert's advice and buy brighter bulbs or turn up the juice for the projectors!
Guilty as all hell! Case closed!
Judge Whopper
(Can't say "rules" or "laws" because there are no movie police issuing tickets to under 18-year olds in R-rated movies.)
Also blame the studios themselves for watering down intelligent stories for the spending movie-going audiences aged 14-24. Even non-adult themed movies -- I admittingly laughed my @#$ off at the crude 'n rude AMERICAN PIE, but I know the intended audience was high school and college kids.
I get P.O.'d at any teen in a R-rated movie. And yes, I did see 'em when I was underaged, but I was also turned away at a few, too. I'm not too old to know that not all "lobbyists" work in D.C. -- some were ushers.
And I agree about the old foggies, too, who see a scene and it reminds them of their life that they have to chime in on. "Oh, speaking of Julie Roberts, she was in PRETTY WOMAN, and my daughter is a whore, too!"
While I'm at it, make the owners follow Martin Scorsese's and Roger Ebert's advice and buy brighter bulbs or turn up the juice for the projectors!
Guilty as all hell! Case closed!
Judge Whopper
Jun 29th, 2001, 01:44 PM
#52
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Ah, well. What positive things can we take away from this discussion? African Americans sometimes disagree with each other on matters of race. That's about it, I guess.
You shouldn't assume that I'm mad, though. Getting mad at every African American who chooses to see things differently is kind of pointless. After all, Clarence Thomas sits on the Supreme Court, and I've managed to survive somehow.
But my point is just this: If you see someone of a particular race behaving badly at the movies, feel free to say something like "I saw an African American (or group of same) behaving badly." I do object, however, when people say "It's always the African Americans" or "They do it more." That, I think, is just plain racist.
Still, Adam, as I said, these little stereotypes do tend to influence behavior and expectations. As I mentioned, you may have a hard time getting a cab to pick you up in the District of Columbia. You see, many cab drivers have observed that young black men present a risk, so they generalize these "observations" and deal with this by not picking up any young black men. But if you find yourself in town and need a cab, let me know, and I'll help you out.
You shouldn't assume that I'm mad, though. Getting mad at every African American who chooses to see things differently is kind of pointless. After all, Clarence Thomas sits on the Supreme Court, and I've managed to survive somehow.
But my point is just this: If you see someone of a particular race behaving badly at the movies, feel free to say something like "I saw an African American (or group of same) behaving badly." I do object, however, when people say "It's always the African Americans" or "They do it more." That, I think, is just plain racist.
Still, Adam, as I said, these little stereotypes do tend to influence behavior and expectations. As I mentioned, you may have a hard time getting a cab to pick you up in the District of Columbia. You see, many cab drivers have observed that young black men present a risk, so they generalize these "observations" and deal with this by not picking up any young black men. But if you find yourself in town and need a cab, let me know, and I'll help you out.
Jun 29th, 2001, 01:55 PM
#53
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Oh, geez. I forgot the tangent about accents and dialects. I read some of the comments as suggesting that you can tell an African American or Latino with your eyes closed.
I would suggest that this only works with African Americans or Latinos with accents.
As a matter of logic, all frogs have two eyes, but not everything with two eyes is a frog. So some/most/many people who speak a dialect might be of the race associated with that dialect or accent. But plenty of people of that race don't speak with that dialect or accent, so the reliability of predictions can be affected.
Anyway, my experience is that lots of people think they can judge the race of a person over the phone. They are then surprised to find they are dealing with someone like me, who doesn't have an accent. Sometimes you could knock them over with a feather.
I would suggest that this only works with African Americans or Latinos with accents.
As a matter of logic, all frogs have two eyes, but not everything with two eyes is a frog. So some/most/many people who speak a dialect might be of the race associated with that dialect or accent. But plenty of people of that race don't speak with that dialect or accent, so the reliability of predictions can be affected.
Anyway, my experience is that lots of people think they can judge the race of a person over the phone. They are then surprised to find they are dealing with someone like me, who doesn't have an accent. Sometimes you could knock them over with a feather.
Jun 29th, 2001, 02:17 PM
#55
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Since you asked:
There does seem to be a disagreement about what it means to be racist, so I'll quickly address it.
Some have said that if a black person makes the statement or does the deed, it is by definition not racist. I disagree. So, if the black cab driver behaves the same way as the white cab driver, both are equally culpable. Honestly, if a black cop engages in racial profiling, does it suddenly become OK?
It does seem to me, however, that one type of racism is singling out one race for behavior engaged in by other races also. So complaining about black folks at the movies irks me unless people are pretty sure others don't do the same thing.
There does seem to be a disagreement about what it means to be racist, so I'll quickly address it.
Some have said that if a black person makes the statement or does the deed, it is by definition not racist. I disagree. So, if the black cab driver behaves the same way as the white cab driver, both are equally culpable. Honestly, if a black cop engages in racial profiling, does it suddenly become OK?
It does seem to me, however, that one type of racism is singling out one race for behavior engaged in by other races also. So complaining about black folks at the movies irks me unless people are pretty sure others don't do the same thing.
Jun 29th, 2001, 02:39 PM
#56
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I do try to avoid these obvious troll posts but I broke down out of boredom. And, to my surprise it did turn out to be travel related. When I got to Rabecca's post, I realized that if that girl had kicked my seat like that I would have just killed her. Now, I would be watching my travelogs from here in prison.
End of Trip.
Thanks fodorites for all of your great travel advice. It's made a Big(House) difference in my life.
Number 3264
End of Trip.
Thanks fodorites for all of your great travel advice. It's made a Big(House) difference in my life.
Number 3264
Jun 29th, 2001, 05:26 PM
#57
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To Cindy: Maybe it is just the part of the U.S. in which I live, (Florida)but many Blacks do speak in a distinct "accent" or whatever you want to call it. From working with delinquent youths for many years, I noticed a trend a few years ago of young white gang members and wanna-bes trying to sound "Black." I haven't send this trend as much since about 1997.
Jun 29th, 2001, 05:52 PM
#58
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Cindy you really scare me.
Your commentary reminds me of the personality type common among police officers who develop the "power complex" and subsequently get themselves into trouble for losing sight of the fact that they are not judge and jury over all matters.
Look, no one here has made comments which are conclusively racist. Racism is defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of behavior. There's a huge difference between racism and behavioral convergence within social groups. It is NOT racist to state that American urban black males tend to idolize pro basketball players. It's NOT their race that causes the behavior. It's cultural. It's part of bonding with peers to develop similar interests. Raise one of those kids in India and I'll guarantee he won't care a bit about basketball.
Stating that Jews are BORN with a "mind for business" is racist. Stating that young urban Hispinics like low riders is NOT racist unless you're implying that they are BORN with this tendency and it is predestined.
See the difference?
Telling Adam he should be offended is truly an ignorant comment on your part. He made an observation. It's consistent with his experience and it was NOT a racist comment.
If you have kids I hope they don't see the movie "Mommie Dearest" and suddenly identify with the poor daughter.
Your commentary reminds me of the personality type common among police officers who develop the "power complex" and subsequently get themselves into trouble for losing sight of the fact that they are not judge and jury over all matters.
Look, no one here has made comments which are conclusively racist. Racism is defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of behavior. There's a huge difference between racism and behavioral convergence within social groups. It is NOT racist to state that American urban black males tend to idolize pro basketball players. It's NOT their race that causes the behavior. It's cultural. It's part of bonding with peers to develop similar interests. Raise one of those kids in India and I'll guarantee he won't care a bit about basketball.
Stating that Jews are BORN with a "mind for business" is racist. Stating that young urban Hispinics like low riders is NOT racist unless you're implying that they are BORN with this tendency and it is predestined.
See the difference?
Telling Adam he should be offended is truly an ignorant comment on your part. He made an observation. It's consistent with his experience and it was NOT a racist comment.
If you have kids I hope they don't see the movie "Mommie Dearest" and suddenly identify with the poor daughter.
Jun 29th, 2001, 07:12 PM
#59
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Cindy: Hang In There!
Adam: Why don't you share with the board the population statistics by RACE for San Mateo County? These facts may shed a little more light on why you have your perspectives.
Your "visits" to San Mateo County are not to be used to boost the count. Oh, add in the average income to really put a flood light on where you "run" to see a movie.
I challenge you because you, Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly and MANY other "black men" are really not so "black" after all to me.
Prove me wrong Adam. I really want to be wrong about you. Forget wedding threads and that crap. This is important to me as your fellow poster...
What fraternity did you pledge? Did you "run" to the white boy frats cause the Blacks were too loud?
Yo Adam are you down??? How about that cab??? And what about that driving while black?????.... How do you like those San Mateo law enforcement officials...they treat you nice as if you were white? Your education, income and degrees get you far with them?
Better yet, how is that Posting while Black playing out for you should your opinion me more like Cindy's???
Finally Adam my man: How goes that TRAVELING WHILE BLACK?????????
Check out my and other's experiences in the "Other" Fodor thread. Did you post on that or are you "passing"???
Speak to me Adam. I want the knowledge. Now this can get interesting...
NOTE: If your name ain't ADAM...keep your eyes on your own paper. Let him speak for himself like everybody else does!
Keep the thread clear for Adam.
No "me too" behavior IF you can help yourselves. And, try, try, try to leave me alone just this once. You can do it!
Come on Adam. Let's do this!
Oaktown
Paul: Very nice try but your definitions of what racism IS NOT are wrong. Thank you for respecting that.
Check your dictionary or some dusty corporate policies on the subject of racism. Or, simply go to your search engine, type in racism and then come back with the "correct" examples.
Adam: Why don't you share with the board the population statistics by RACE for San Mateo County? These facts may shed a little more light on why you have your perspectives.
Your "visits" to San Mateo County are not to be used to boost the count. Oh, add in the average income to really put a flood light on where you "run" to see a movie.
I challenge you because you, Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly and MANY other "black men" are really not so "black" after all to me.
Prove me wrong Adam. I really want to be wrong about you. Forget wedding threads and that crap. This is important to me as your fellow poster...
What fraternity did you pledge? Did you "run" to the white boy frats cause the Blacks were too loud?
Yo Adam are you down??? How about that cab??? And what about that driving while black?????.... How do you like those San Mateo law enforcement officials...they treat you nice as if you were white? Your education, income and degrees get you far with them?
Better yet, how is that Posting while Black playing out for you should your opinion me more like Cindy's???
Finally Adam my man: How goes that TRAVELING WHILE BLACK?????????
Check out my and other's experiences in the "Other" Fodor thread. Did you post on that or are you "passing"???
Speak to me Adam. I want the knowledge. Now this can get interesting...
NOTE: If your name ain't ADAM...keep your eyes on your own paper. Let him speak for himself like everybody else does!
Keep the thread clear for Adam.
No "me too" behavior IF you can help yourselves. And, try, try, try to leave me alone just this once. You can do it!
Come on Adam. Let's do this!
Oaktown
Paul: Very nice try but your definitions of what racism IS NOT are wrong. Thank you for respecting that.
Check your dictionary or some dusty corporate policies on the subject of racism. Or, simply go to your search engine, type in racism and then come back with the "correct" examples.
Jun 29th, 2001, 07:57 PM
#60
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I'm me. No one else.
I've never once had a problem catching a cab in New York, Oakland, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, etc. Never once.
I go to movies in San Mateo County and live in Alameda County. I suspect there are others, white, black, asian, etc who are just like me. Why do you find this so surprising???
You seem to think every black person is either a homey or Uncle Tom yet would be offended if I say you are a Berkeley liberal or a NASCAR-loving trailer dude. There's lots of different people in the world if you'll take the time to meet them. I have friends of all races, sexual orientations and genders. It just isn't as big of a deal as some of us make it out to be.
I've never once had a problem catching a cab in New York, Oakland, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, etc. Never once.
I go to movies in San Mateo County and live in Alameda County. I suspect there are others, white, black, asian, etc who are just like me. Why do you find this so surprising???
You seem to think every black person is either a homey or Uncle Tom yet would be offended if I say you are a Berkeley liberal or a NASCAR-loving trailer dude. There's lots of different people in the world if you'll take the time to meet them. I have friends of all races, sexual orientations and genders. It just isn't as big of a deal as some of us make it out to be.
