Thanks for all your help and replies. Does anyone know by the way, WHY the bus would be quicker?? And no Doug, I can be convinced believe me. You have given me lots to think about.

The train does not take the fastest route. it must follow the tracks. The first part of the trip is to travel due north along the Hudson River to Albany, NY. After that that train begins to head west.

By following roads, a bus can travel along more of a northwestly diagonal and save time. The train often loses loads of time at the border crossing.

northwesterly . . . sheesh

The bus also doesn't stop until it gets to Toronot, except at the border, where you can get through customs and immigration faster since there are fewer people and less baggage.

Still, an awfully long way to go on a bus.

Thank you ellenem and MikeT for your help and replies!!

The bus can go faster than the train (which often has a speed of about 55/60 miles per hour).

The seats in the train will be more comfy but the bathrooms are likely to be disgusting and IMHO the food is not edible - you need to bring your own (not a problem if your don;t mind soggy prepackaged sandwiches and chips). I've done the trip several times by car and found it easy and fast (much faster than the train) but then I like to drive.

Sorry - IMHO Amtrak train travel is not viable except in the NE corridor (DC to Boston - and then not even for the whole distance). For the cost of several train fares I would explore the cost of renting a car.

nytraveler - Oh believe me I HAVE explored the option of renting a car. And I too like to drive. No car rental agency I have contacted will let me rent a car in NYC and return it across the border in Toronto. I have even thought of renting the car in NYC, returning in Buffalo, NY and THEN taking the train the short distance (relatively) across the border to Toronto. But there are only two such trains, both leaving in the mid-afternoon which would mean a very early start in the morning from NYC and who know if we would make them or have to spend the night in a motel, wait the entire next day for that 3:30 or 4:30 train, and have only then to get to Toronto, almost 2 full days after leaving NYC? I would have loved to drive!! Not available.

Maybe it's time to face that flying anxiety. Looking at how much it is complicating your life and ability to travel may be the incentive you need to face it straight on.

Oh I do fly, when I have to, like international. But as I said I prefer not to when I don't have to. That being said, there are plenty of cons to flying as well. The price is much more expensive, there are frequent delays and/or cancellations of these short distance flights, I will need transport to and from the airport at each destination, it will take time also because we need to be there several hours before take-off, etc. Believe me I have researched extensively on ALL courses of transport and none have come up completely "pro" without any "cons".

The MegaBus stops at the Buffalo Airport on the way to Toronto... you could drive a rental from NYC to BUF and turn in the car there and take Megabus to Toronto... less than $20 per person... no problem, just timing your trip with the bus schedule... you could also just park the rental at the BUF airport and drive it back if needed... whatever is cheaper...

Also consider the rental to Buffalo Airport and other ground transport to Toronto... check www.buffaloairport.com and look at Canadian Ground Transportion under Parking and Transportation... there are dozens of choices ranging from bus to Limo to get you from BUF to Toronto... since there are three of you... take the Limo...

Also have your Limo cross at Niagara Falls Rainbow Bridge and spend a few minutes gawking at the Falls... its worth it..

Flame123, I do think you are misinformed that flights to Toronto from NYC are often delayed or cancelled. This is a major and very busy route, and that is simply not true. I know that alone is not going to convince you to take a flight, but it's a whole lot better than the train.

One reason the train is often exceedingly late (usually more than an hour) is because it often stops to allow freight trains to pass since they have the right of way. I once sat on a sideline in Vermont on the way to Montreal for an hour and 15 minutes. And I once sat in the railyard in Albany for over 45 minutes just waiting to depart to Toronto. No explanation given. I've done each trip twice and will never do it again. Back then, I had no choice because it was just too expensive for me to fly, but I'd never endure that trip again if I had a choice.

garyt22 - thanks for your ideas, I have already thought of them and they seem a bit cumbersome for all that it is worth.

Doug - thank you for writing that about the flights. I am indeed seriously looking into flying at this point. Right now I am going through all the pros and cons of all my options and it is good to know that these short flights are not often delayed or cancelled.

Thank you everyone again !!!

Flame, I think you just need to bite the bullet and act. My sense is you are going to find problems with any option, so just pick one and move on. I find that if I have too many options that I'm dithering over, I feel paralyzed. Sometimes you just need to decide.

Amtrak sucks, this isn't Japan where the trains are clean, fast, and punctual.

FLY.

fly. Amtrak is fine for short jaunts but Toronto to NYC is too much. I used to try to avoid that line (think its called the Maple Leaf line) when I had to take Albany to NYC because it was too often delayed for long periods of time.

We took the Maple Leaf from Penn Station to Toronto yesterday. We will be having a few flights on this trip and we wanted to try something different from a plane. We booked business class and loved the trip. The views from the left side of the train along the Hudson are very nice. The toilet was quite usable and never got disgusting. We took our own snacks and found out when we went to buy coffee that it was complimentary with business class. We were held up at the border and arrived into Toronto about an hour late. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, but really think business class is worth the bit extra - loads of space - only about 15 in the carriage.

ozetraveller - I appreciate very much your input on this subject. I still have not figured out or decided on our mode of transport. There are plusses and minuses with all types of possible transports so I am still weighing in on each of them.
Thanks again !!!