Esme

I hope you don't mind me asking on here, it's not really travel, but what are your schools like over there? Are they anything like we see on TV? (In the UK) My children love "Saved By The Bell" and other such programmes and think all american schools must be really cool - take "Sabrina" for instance, DW my 11 year old thinks the whole thing is "wicked". Help! Just interested though - any info gratefully digested.

Kirstie

As a mother of a teenager, I think the TV show with the most realistic depiction of what school is like here is "Freaks and Geeks". Don't know if you get it there. I also thought "My So Called Life" was realistic but it hasn't been on the air in a while, maybe in syndication. What do others think?

xxx

Most schools in urban areas have metal detectors so kids can't bring weapons in school. They don't show this on tv. And the sad reality is, most public schools in this country are a disgrace. Besides weapons, teen pregnancy and drugs are rampant. Johnny can't read and write.

just the facts maam

Well, we don't all feel that way about our schools. The schools in the midwest are typically better than either of the coast's big city schools. LA schools are a complete nightmare. Actually teen pregnancy is down quite a bit but it's still ridiculous that very young teens are getting pregnant.

Kirstie

The statement "most public schools in this country are a sad disgrace" -- on what do you base this? What you read or what you know? I happen to live in an area where hundreds and hundreds of public schools are some of the finest in the nation, academically, socially, and every way. Remarkable students, achievements, teachers, and parents. I'm so sick of hearing crap about how crappy schools are -- yes, some, perhaps a lot, but not "schools" as in "all schools." And not every school is a scary inner-city school with gun detectors. Has anyone taken a look at what the typical 7th grader is expected to learn and do right now, compared to 7th grade in the 60's?

Bill

I live in a suburban school district which is highly rated and we have gun detectors in our school.

Emily

I have been a teacher in various public high schools for over 15 years and from personal experience, I can testify that the shows you have mentioned are only TV shows for the purposes of entertainment -- they are not based on reality. (They're probably what the kids WISH that their high school day was like!) Also from my personal experience, the vast majority of high school students today are decent, hard-working kids and the vast majority of teachers are also working hard to provide their students with the best possible education. (Yes, of course every one of us can point to some unfortunate exceptions in both cases!)

Suzie

Thanks for standing up for the majority of our kids Kristie. I never know how to respond to those sweeping generalizations. I'll soon have to log off for the day as I'll be leaving to go to my son's awaard ceremony where he will be recognized for getting straight A's. Most of his friends had been getting straight A's all year and these are just your regular kids whose parents work hard to make sure they get a good education. No guns, no weapons, public school. My advice is cut down on tv news or at least balance what you see with the knowledge that there are many millions of kids who are not in the news.

Mr. Killjoy

Esme, the schools are EXACTLY like "Saved by the Bell" and "Sabrina." They are overrun with preppies, showgirls and witches.

died laughing

Mr. Killjoy you are killing me! LOL Are all men in the UK like Bennie Hill?

L

Just a suggestion: one way to evaluate schools in a particular district is to assess the politcal leadership. This is so apparent in the DC/VA/MD area, where terrifc systems can reside within a mere few miles of deplorable systems. It is this disjointed, irrational proximity of the good with the bad that gives rise to the notion of vouchers. Anyone who tars all US schools with the same brush offers a disservice to people genuinely interested in making our schools a place of learning. Living with an educational professional has shown me it's simpleminded to write off our schools and kids ... they'd have more of a chance if the adult egos in local politics could use their authority to better the schools. We instead end up with this constant wrangle between mayors, city councils, school boards and school administrators. Ciao.

Suzie

Thank you L for your intelligent response. I can't believe that XX has kids and can make that statement. No Esme, US schools are not like those on TV. TV is fictional and programs are developed for entertainment. Showing a half hour of students doing homework and school projects or taking standardized tests so that local politicos can proudly point to their "successful" schools is not entertaining.

Lizzie

I have to admit getting sucked in to Boston Public, a show about a quasi-inner-city high school in Boston that started in fall 2000. Fox. Metal detectors, caring teachers, interested students, not so interested students, concerned administrators - I think they do a fairly good job portraying a public high school with its fair share of problems.

I have to say that judging the quality of a school by the fact that all of its students are receiving "straight a's" is more than a little worrisome. To me, that indicates more than anything else that grading is lax.

Quite frankly, the amount of taxpayer money going to any given school system can be (note I say CAN BE, not IS) little indication of the quality of teaching, etc. I grew up in East Hampton, a wealthy sort of suburb of NYC. The school system was so dismal I went to boarding school 9th through 12th grades. The poor quality of the local school system was a combination of laziness on the part of both faculty and administration.

There's really no arguing with the fact that we have a sad state of educational affairs in this country. I have a friend who taught in a terrible neighborhood in the Bronx for several years, then switched to a lovely, exclusive private school on the Upper East Side. The stark contrast makes her incredibly sad, but she simply couldn't face teaching at the public school any longer. The stories one reads about are real - and it blows my mind that just a few miles away parents pay to send their children to schools like the wonderful private school I mentioned. Not to cast all public schools in the same light - also a few miles away you have wonderful public schools in Westchester.

Cindy

Well said, L. We're also in the DC metro area, and there are lots of fine schools here. My kids are learning things a lot earlier than I did, and I turned out just fine.

I am, however, growing concerned about all of this standardized testing. I believe my elementary age kids get tested to see if they are gifted (my daughter was tested three times just to make sure), and tested to see if their school is any good. The latter batch of tests is the problematic one. The schools spend a huge amount of the month of March preparing for tests, having pep rallies and other social events and such, just so our school will outrank other schools. Who cares? I'm not sold that there is any value in it.

getreal

Oh good grief Lizzie, Boston Common?! That was a pile of garbage. Once again a person commenting about their own experience in one school and vicariously through one other person. These opinions are based on anecedotal informational and therefore unreliable when attributed to the schools in the US. The US lags in math when compared to other similar countries. That's a fact. The students in the US are subjected to frequent and useless tests as Cindy says.

L

For anyone interested in currect educational issues, the National School Boards Assn. in Alexandria, Va. (www.nsba.org) has studied standardized testing, vouchers, private schools, teacher accountability, violence in schools, teen pregnancy, AIDS in schools, etc. ... their information is first rate, although of course tailored to answer and educate school board members nationally. It is terrible to hear anyone offer a blanket indictment of our schools ... just as I cannot imagine why the Federal Government provides only 7 percent of the total educational investment in primamry and secondary public schools ... am I missing something, or are education and healthcare among the most important investments we make to keep our country sound and progressing? No investment, no return on investment. Maybe I ought to just give my $600 refund to a school. Ciao.

A

The perfect school for most is the homeschool. Kids get the attention they need. They learn at their own pace. The teacher/student ratio can't be beat. There are no gun detectors. The students have less self-esteem problems. No peer pressure. No dress code. No frivolous testing (but testing does occur). And guess what...THESE KIDS ARE OUT-PERFORMING CHILDREN IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS (according to their SAT scores). It is no wonder that by 2002 it is predicted that there will be about 3 million american children being taught in the home.

Lizzie

Actually... I commented on several different school systems AND experiences. And the information about public schools in New York City may be a mixture of fact and anecdote, but there have been several extensive studies done of that school system that have come to basically the same conclusion: something needs to be done. Just do a search on the Times or Journal websites. Are you going to argue that these accounts aren't true? Or that there aren't serious problems there, and in DC, and in many different cities? Or that it's NOT sad that such school systems exist in such close proximity to wealthy public school systems and private schools where students get great educations that will help them the rest of their lives?

Furthermore, no one exists in a vacuum. I realize that I have been fortunate in terms of my own education. Of course anything I say about it is ancdotal. So are most of the other comments here! I have come into contact with a very wide variety of people with different educational backgrounds and had the chance to learn what their educational experiences were like. I also know many teachers and have heard their opinions. What's wrong with anecdotal evidence - especially when it is clearly labeled as such? I don't profess to be an expert and I made sure to state that I didn't intend my views to tar the entire US school system.

Please note that I said Boston Public does a "FAIRLY" good job of portraying a quasi-inner-city high school. Perhaps you are too far removed from that, in age and locale, to see it for what it is. And take it with a grain of salt.

ilisa

L, you are so right about our investment in schools. I am a lobbyist for K-12 education and you cannot imagine the opposition to increased funding.

L

A, it's true homeschooling has a powerful attraction for many ... and you guys are an enrgetic voice. But for you to say it's the perfect type of school for most, well, isn't that going over the line of what is known at this point. But I'm sure you can point to some research. What would be interesting to know is how people become ardent advocates for your approach. By the way, using an SAT-based argument might be your strongest suit right now ... a number of colleges are moving away from reliance on those scores, and some are even abandoning their use in admissions decisions ... there have been numerous articles in the press about SAT over the past year. And Lizzie, there's nothing inherently wrong with anecdotal information ... it has its place in assessing issues (it can certainly be more interesting and human than raw data from some study). But I'm not clear about your thoughts on DC schools ... yes, there are serious problems, and we're not seeing improvements. But I will tell you this: I would bet my life that if we had a better political sitaution in DC we could begin to improve our school system. May I offer you an anecdote or two, perhaps to serve as a backdrop to how our local leaders fail our students? Just this week, two interesting things happened in DC ... first, because someone offered it, it was decided that our mayor should reside in a huge mansion on vast acreage in a predominantly affluent area of the city, which will just happen to locate him as far as possible from those inner city schools we've all be wringing our hands over. And second, despite a majority vote in an election some years ago to impose term limits on our political "leaders", the DC City Council (they also of the limits) simply, by majority vote, decided they would have none of it, that the people's vote had created an unconstituional effect, and thus they would not follow the voters' decision. Everyday, in every way, I can sense my own need to follow Charlie Brown's lead and utter "good grief." But instead, I shall merely pen a ciao, and stow away my soap box for another afternoon. Thx for your patience, as usual. Ciao