2 women die in fall from cliff on Kaua'i
Dec 21st, 2006, 08:11 AM
#22
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ok, my friend, iamq. I'm not going to flame anyone. This is heartbreaking.
But, a lot of finger pointing is only done at one book in particular. Well, I know I have been able to find in other books and especially on the internet of "hidden" gems in Hawaii.
The real icee and I have been to Kipu Falls 2 times. Neither time did I realize that I was trespassing to get to the falls. However, neither time did I jump off the cliff and swim in the pool below because it just looked too dangerous. I found my way to Kipu Falls from a local when I asked why all the cars were parked down the road.
I do agree the writers' of the guidebooks should not encourage us to go to dangerous spots and I do agree that that they should not encourage us to ignore No Trespassing signs. And, I don't blame stores for pulling their books off the shelves. We still must remain accountable.
Now that I know I was walking on private property to get to Kipu Falls, I won't go there again. There were no signs to me to indicate it was private property.
Here's wishing you all peace at this time of year. My heart is heavy that the families of these 2 women will not have a happy holiday season.
i'2
But, a lot of finger pointing is only done at one book in particular. Well, I know I have been able to find in other books and especially on the internet of "hidden" gems in Hawaii.
The real icee and I have been to Kipu Falls 2 times. Neither time did I realize that I was trespassing to get to the falls. However, neither time did I jump off the cliff and swim in the pool below because it just looked too dangerous. I found my way to Kipu Falls from a local when I asked why all the cars were parked down the road.
I do agree the writers' of the guidebooks should not encourage us to go to dangerous spots and I do agree that that they should not encourage us to ignore No Trespassing signs. And, I don't blame stores for pulling their books off the shelves. We still must remain accountable.
Now that I know I was walking on private property to get to Kipu Falls, I won't go there again. There were no signs to me to indicate it was private property.
Here's wishing you all peace at this time of year. My heart is heavy that the families of these 2 women will not have a happy holiday season.
i'2
Dec 21st, 2006, 08:51 AM
#23
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Per the 2nd article I posted:
"Deborah Ward, spokeswoman for the state Department of Land and Natural Resources, said ****the area has no maintained trails or state-sanctioned trails to the top or the bottom of the falls.***** State officials posted signs at a viewing area with railings after previous accidents at the site.
"We have signs there that say 'Danger,' 'Keep Out,' and 'Hazardous Conditions' because it's not in a maintained area, it's not a trail, and it's dangerous," she said. "We really want people to only go on maintained trails for their safety."
THESE WERE NOT STATE MAINTAINED OR SANCTIONED TRAILS. Yet these books tell people they can go there!
"Deborah Ward, spokeswoman for the state Department of Land and Natural Resources, said ****the area has no maintained trails or state-sanctioned trails to the top or the bottom of the falls.***** State officials posted signs at a viewing area with railings after previous accidents at the site.
"We have signs there that say 'Danger,' 'Keep Out,' and 'Hazardous Conditions' because it's not in a maintained area, it's not a trail, and it's dangerous," she said. "We really want people to only go on maintained trails for their safety."
THESE WERE NOT STATE MAINTAINED OR SANCTIONED TRAILS. Yet these books tell people they can go there!
Dec 21st, 2006, 09:24 AM
#24
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A major complaint I have with the books is THESE ARE NOT TRAILS - even though the books tout them as such.
It's irresponsible to call such dangerous places a "trail" because it gives people a false sense of security, safety, or entitlement to trespass.
My own opinion is that many people who trespass in these dangerous areas would not do so if they weren't lead to believe that a "trail" existed there. If it remained just off-limits wilderness, they would have been more cautious.
It's irresponsible to call such dangerous places a "trail" because it gives people a false sense of security, safety, or entitlement to trespass.
My own opinion is that many people who trespass in these dangerous areas would not do so if they weren't lead to believe that a "trail" existed there. If it remained just off-limits wilderness, they would have been more cautious.
Dec 21st, 2006, 09:58 AM
#25
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More background on the victims and the location from today's Hawaiian press....
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...612210332/1001
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...612210332/1001
Dec 21st, 2006, 10:32 AM
#26
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Hawaiifanatic - I posted that above under:
http://tinyurl.com/tx8gf
...but thanks for reiterating it. I believe this really needs to be emphasized.
http://tinyurl.com/tx8gf
...but thanks for reiterating it. I believe this really needs to be emphasized.
Dec 21st, 2006, 11:23 AM
#27
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Hi kamahinaohoku---
Oops, I crossed that up with the original Advertiser article that you posted at the beginning of the thread. Thanks for keeping us informed.
To show what a small world we live in, my wife ran across this item in an online newsletter she was reading today for her business....
"Finally, I’d like to extend my sincerest condolences to Monte Brem, the former PCG pro whose wife Elizabeth died from a tragic hiking accident in Kauai this week. Monte has always been a friend of this space, and I cannot imagine how painful the past two days have been for him and his children." You’re in our thoughts.
Oops, I crossed that up with the original Advertiser article that you posted at the beginning of the thread. Thanks for keeping us informed.
To show what a small world we live in, my wife ran across this item in an online newsletter she was reading today for her business....
"Finally, I’d like to extend my sincerest condolences to Monte Brem, the former PCG pro whose wife Elizabeth died from a tragic hiking accident in Kauai this week. Monte has always been a friend of this space, and I cannot imagine how painful the past two days have been for him and his children." You’re in our thoughts.
Dec 21st, 2006, 03:36 PM
#28
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I was just sick to hear of this tragedy. We lived near Opaeka'a Falls for 6 years, I probably passed the lookout 4-6 times a day and I was always shocked to see visitors teetering on the other side of the guard rails to get photos. Hiking in this area on the unmarked slippery trails is folly yet I always saw cars pulledand parked over past the official lookout. Sigh.
Dec 25th, 2006, 03:47 PM
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Dec 31st, 2006, 02:50 PM
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Latest about the accident:
http://signonsandiego.com/news/north...7m28hiker.html
I agree that the guide books should not encourage this kind of off-trailing but it does seem like this partiuclar accident was probably the consequence of some freak moment of misjudgment, like tripping on a branch, or a bizzare natural occurence, like the earth sliding from under their feet. Extremely sad for the families whatever the reason.
http://signonsandiego.com/news/north...7m28hiker.html
I agree that the guide books should not encourage this kind of off-trailing but it does seem like this partiuclar accident was probably the consequence of some freak moment of misjudgment, like tripping on a branch, or a bizzare natural occurence, like the earth sliding from under their feet. Extremely sad for the families whatever the reason.
Jan 1st, 2007, 01:44 PM
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I have a 60-year old German friend who is quite the world traveller, including hiking with armed guards in Africa. He has complained to me about how American natural sites contain so many warning signs and guard rails. He thinks he should be allowed to take any risk he wants. I've always wondered if he would feel the same way if one of his childen was injured, such as when they wanted to get closer to the edge of the Grand Canyon.
Jan 20th, 2007, 01:46 PM
#33
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The waterfall trail has now been fenced off....
http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2...ews/news01.txt
http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2...ews/news01.txt
Jan 22nd, 2007, 05:22 PM
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Good news about the fence, and also good news that the top of the fence has already begun to buckle from people climbing over it.
Try as we might, we're not going to stop Darwinism from working its magic. Give people ample warning, but then step out of the way and let them make their own decisions. The only alternative, which isn't exactly practical is to post 24 hour security guards at every dangerous place on the island.
Try as we might, we're not going to stop Darwinism from working its magic. Give people ample warning, but then step out of the way and let them make their own decisions. The only alternative, which isn't exactly practical is to post 24 hour security guards at every dangerous place on the island.
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Jan 1st, 2005 04:43 PM
