nonstop

just returned from 6 great days in central Mexico. 3 nights in Guadalajara (GDL) and 3 nights in Guanajuato(GTO) with a day side trip to Dolores and San Miguel.<BR>GDL-stayed at Crown Plaza in GDL. In the hotel the common areas, gardens, restaurants were beautiful. Rooms were a little tired and needed updating. People at hotel very nice and friendly and would certainly go back. Booked a City tour with the hotel for about $13 pp which I highly recommend. The tour ended with a 2 hour shopping and lunch trip to Tahlepaque. Total tour lasted about 6 hours. During our stay in GDL we did many side trips on our own including Tonala in which the market is a must visit on Sundays. Also on the must do list is the Ballet Folklorico in El Centro. I am not into ballet but this is completely different. Glad my wife talked me into it. Absolute stunning show and is performed only on Sunday mornings at 10:a.m. Always discuss cab fares in advance with the drivers. Fares seem to differ a little and they don't seem to use meters. Great dinners at Santo Coyote (must do) and Sacromonte. We had breakfast at the hotel each morning. Lavish buffet for about $14 pp. GDL is a big city. The Crowne Plaza was near the Plaza De Sol shopping center which some would consider a plus. To get downtown it was a little inconvient and required a $5-$6 cab ride. After 3 nights we took the bus (ETN) to Guanajuato. We made our reservations from the states so no problems on check in. They spoke no english at the ETN lines so was good we already had reservations. Luxury bus with only 4 passengers. Fare to GTO was about $25 pp. IN GTO we stayed at the Parador San Javier which once was a huge Mexican hacienda. Sits on the hill with very beautiful grounds. If you want a flavor of Mexico, I highly recommend it. $99 per night. GTO is a stunning town being built on the hillsides. We walked to el centro once or twice per day. Most of the activities center around the Jardin Union which is a neat little square with hotels surrounding it. Every night we had dinner at one of the sidewalk cafes. Mariachis stroll the area wanting to play for the guests. We enjoyed the shopping in GTO and just strolling the streets. the univ. of GTO is located in the center of town so every night the streets are jammed packed with students. After walking into town we were always too tired to walk back uphill to our hotel so took cabs. We took a 1 day side trip to Dolores Hidalgo and San Miguel de Allende with an english speaking guide. He charged us $100 USD and we had him from 9:30 to 5 p.m. The hotel set him up. He also took us to the airport in Leon from GTO for $25USD. <BR>All in all, we enjoyed both extremes of GTO and GDL very much and would go back to both. The Mexican people couldn't have been nicer. Language can be a little diffiult so recommend you work on your spanish a little. We were careful where we ate and exercised good judgement. Did have to drink the pepto bismol one night but never had to take the antibiotic Cipro. Wanted to eat from the street vendors but most people advise against it. Will be happy to answer any individual questions or you can e-mail me.<BR>Steve

SusanInToronto

Sounds like you had a good trip. But only 2 hours in Tlaquepaque for lunch and shopping? Not nearly enough time! <BR><BR>We had mixed experiences with cabs in Guadalajara. The cab from the bus terminal was not metered, but the trips around town (to / from Tlaquepaque, etc.) were metered.

nonstop

Susan: couldn't agree more. Tlaquepaque needed about 5 hours. The shops were great. We just ran out of time. Also needed more time in Tonala. That market there was crazy (in a good way)!! As far as the cabs in Guadalajara. 90% of the time we asked the fare in advance. And it varied between drivers. The hotel was very good about verifying the fares when we caught cabs at the hotel. Interesting was the one time a cab had a meter on it was an American driver. Where we had been paying 50-60 pesos for the same distance, his meter was only 37. But, with 10.6 pesos to the dollar I didnt complain too much when the fare was 10-20 pesos different. Sounds like we should have asked all drivers to turn on their meters. I didn't even know they had meters until the American driver turned his on. I should have asked.

Jamie

<BR>Steve:<BR>Very good to see all your information on the central part of Mexico, esp considering it's so hard to get info on that area. I have many questions but I'll try not to go overboard. We would like to go there mainly for touring and shopping. Do you think your schedule would be the best for that ... 3 nites in Guadalajara and 3 in Guanajuato? <BR><BR>I had been thinking of staying at San Miguel de Allende but perhaps that is too inconvenient for a &quot;main base&quot;? Our touring and wanting the &quot;flavor of Mexico&quot; are more important than shopping ... should we spend more time in Guanajuato? Guadalajara sounds like it may be too big, too citified? The Parador San Javier sounds so gorgeous. How far is that to the shopping areas? Any sights in that area for touring? <BR><BR>How is the temperature there in spring or fall? You flew to Mexico City then to GTO or GDL? To get more time in Tlaquepaque and/or Tonala, should we get a hotel there or just come back another day? Whatever I've missed, please let me know. <BR><BR>Oh, how about safety? Did you always feel safe in these places, a lot of American tourists around? Thank you very much.

SusanInToronto

Jamie, Guadalajara is a big city - 6 million people. Tlaquepaque and Tonala are basically suburbs of the city and it's a fairly short taxi ride. Tlaquepaque looks really pretty and there are some very nice B&amp;B's there. We stayed in Guadalajara because we knew we'd only want the 1 day shopping. There was also a festival going on in Guadalajara so the city was very lively. <BR><BR>I can't say we saw too many American tourists when we were there in February. (Or Canadian - that's what I am.) On the other hand, that didn't mean it wasn't safe! We had no safety concerns at all when we were there. <BR><BR>It's been several years since I was in Guanajuato. It's much smaller. We stayed a couple of nights in San Miguel de Allende and only 1 in Guanajuato during that trip. I found it really interesting and would love to go back.

nonstop

Jamie: Don't mind answering a lot of questions. Looking back I think 3 days/3 days was the right thing for us. we originally were going to GDL for 6 nights and some Mexican friends convinced us to go to GTO for part of the time. We too, wanted the flavor of Mexico and feel like we really got it esp;ecially in GTO. My personal opinion is that San Miguel may be a little remote for a base of operations. When we got to San Miguel we felt there were way too many Americans for us. I think about 40,000 live there during the year. I think I could have gone to Santa Fe NM and got a lot of the same feeling. But, there is a good reason that 40k Americans live there so my thinking may be in the minority. We were very glad to get back to GTO from San Miguel. I like both the big city and the small towns. I did feel there was some good shopping in GTO although limited-but all we needed. San Miguel has quite a bit of shopping. The San Javier on the hill is about a mile from the center of town but you walk through the town from the moment you step out the entrance of the hotel. The best sights for touring from GTO are Dolores and San Miguel but suggest it may be best to have a guide or take a bus. In GDL the temperature in Day was around 85 and about 50 at night. GTO was a little cooler in the day but about the same at night. We always needed light windbreakers at night in both cities. <BR>Yes, we flew to MEX first and then changed planes to GDL. Coming home we flew out of Leon. MEX is confusing and a big airport. Once you learn the system it is fairly logical. If you go to GTO first you need to fly into Leon which is about 40mintues away. That is their airport. I think the accommodations in Tonala or Tlaquepaque and going to be smaller and more quaint. The nicer hotels are in the city. Cabs are no big deal. When we went to Tonala it was a 10 dollar cab ride and we were far on the SW side of GDL. As far as safety we felt safe both place but with always exercised normal caution. GTO is very safe and one of the waiters told us you can walk in the streets at 4 a.m. with no problems (we didn't try it). Saw a fair amount of Americans in GDL in the more touristy areas like El Centro or Tlaquepaque. But not many in Tonala(I'm not sure we saw any there). In GTO there was only 1 other American family in our hotel. The rest were Mexicans. If you stay down on the square in El Luna or Santa Fe you will see more there. But we wanted a true Mexican experience. We never saw any other Americans on our walks downtown except on the square. More questions? Let me know

Mariarosa

nonstop - Excellent trip report. I visited this area a few years ago with my mom, but we did it as part of a tour and didn't get to spend as much time as we would have liked and would like to return someday. So, you used mainly taxis with the occasional day-tour as transportation, correct?<BR><BR>So, how did you book the GDL-GTO bus from the US? Just curious.

Jamie

<BR>Susan &amp; Steve:<BR><BR>Thank you very much for your answers. They are definitely helping me to set up a trip. Since GDL is such a big city, I think we'd be happier in GTO. But we would miss Tonala and Tlaquepaque that way, and the Ballet Folkloric. Are they too good to miss? Can't stay much longer than 7 or 8 nights at a stretch. <BR><BR>I'm finding a lot of info on the web except when it comes to maps. I like to see hotel locations on maps; any idea where that might be? <BR><BR>Do you think we could handle the Mexico City airport knowing only a few Spanish words? Fortunately, we live in Florida and can always learn more. <BR><BR>Easy to set up tours at the hotel for Dolores and San Miguel? Which place did you like better? How far are they from GTO? Better to get a private cab driver for $100 a day? Although, if he's not too chatty, we're not going to learn much.<BR><BR>As far as shopping goes, we're mainly looking for wall/home decor type things. Any particular area strong on this type of art/craft? <BR><BR>It was 85 deg. there in March? So Feb or November might be a better time to go?<BR><BR>Food is good in GTO? Any favorite restaurants? Pepto for one night sounds about average. <BR><BR>Thanks again so much for your help.

nonstop

Mariosa &amp; Jamie:<BR><BR>Yes, we used Taxis to get from our hotel to restuarants, Tlaquepaque, Tonala, etc with no problems. <BR><BR>Booking the trip from GDL to GTO was interesting: first, tried to book it on ETN's website for about 2 weeks. Finally gave up and just called them. They spoke very little English so I had to try hard to speak spanish and got everything communicated: Seat assignment, time of departure, credit card info etc. They gave me a confirmation number and when I got to the bus station I just showed them the confirm. number and up popped my reservation on the screen. No problem!! We didn't really need a res. since there were only 2 other people on the bus with us. Booked a Primera class ticket.<BR><BR>Jamie: In my opinion, I don't think you will be sorry stopping in GDL for a couple of days. Remember, the ballet folkloric is only on sunday morning at 10 a.m. Also, the best shopping for your purposes would be Tlaquepaque. You could easily spend most of a day there. Really good shops-but a little more upscale. Better quality. <BR>You can find the hotel locations in the Fodors mexico book with a map. I'm with you, I like to see the locations also.<BR>Yes, you can handle MEX with no spanish. It's just that on connecting flights they sometimes put you in holding areas (A &amp; B) and then as the departure approaches they post the gates and you sometimes have to backtrack. <BR>For the trip to Dolores and San Miguel, the Parador San Javier set up the driver and car. I can give you their e-mail address if you decide to stay there and give you the name of the driver. Srta. Berenice Castillo at the hotel set up the whole deal. The driver was talkative and was very friendly and helpful. I recommend that is the best way to go. You see more and get a more personal touch. I also have his phone number if you want to call him in GTO if you decide not to stay at San Javier.<BR>Don't know about the weather in Feb or Nov but suspect it is about the same.<BR>Food in GTO was great. We ate all midday and night meals at the main square in town at the sidewalk cafes in front of the hotels. Ate twice at Hotel Luna and once at Santa Fe. Breakfasts were eaten at San Javier. Will answer as many questions as you can throw at me. Steve

Jamie

Steve:<BR><BR>Trip Advisor has 4 hotels rated higher than Parador San Javier; I'd like to ask you about 3 of them.<BR>Quinta las Acacias<BR>La Casa de Espiritus Alegres<BR>Posada Santa Fe<BR>Did you see any of these 3? Any opinions? I don't know their exact locations, maybe they were not as convenient to the town? Strange that the first one was rated #1 by Trip Advisor but received only 1 star from Hotels.com. Rarely see such a difference like that.<BR>

Jean_Valjean

Of the hotels you mention, the only one I know is Quinta Las Acacias. It is a beautiful hotel, with great service.All the employees seem to know your name by the second day!

nonstop

Jamie: the Quinta hotels are all top notch. The Quinta in GDL is the best in the City. My wife wanted to stay there but I couldn't justify the EXTRA $120 per night. I can't pinpoint the location of the Quinta in GTO. But I think it may be on a hill overlooking the city. The tour book says it is across from Acacia park but don't know where that is. The Posada Santa Fe is on the main square &quot;Union Jardin&quot; where all the action is. Great location in the center of everything. We ate 2 meals at their sidewalk cafe. It is next to the Hotel Luna. Had we not stayed at San Javier this would have been our other choice. But San Javier has much more of a flavor of Mexico but you give up some location. My wife said she would have preferred Santa Fe because of the location. If there is a disadvantage to Santa Fe it may be the noise on the square. But if you get a back room you can avoid all that. You wouldn't go wrong with it. Back to the Quinta. You can find their Mexican hotels on their web site. Just do a search and they are there. I understand you wanting to make the right choice. I probably spent 2-3 mos researching various options. I cross referenced about 10 Mexico tour books to try to make the right selection.,

patw

Thanks Steve,<BR>We're leaving tomorrow PM for 4 nts in GDL &amp; 5 nts in GTO. We will also be at the Parador San Javier and based on your trip report I think that was a good choice. We've been to GDL 5x before and love it. We are staying in Tlaqapaque this time. We're doing the ETN bus thing too and also doing day trips to SMA and Dolores Hidalgo. We love the real Mexico and are really looking forward to using our Spanish.<BR>Thanks and I will post upon my return.<BR>Pat

SusanInToronto

Nonstop made a good point. It's not really necessary to make reservations in advance for the bus. We stopped at a travel agency in Guadalajara to get an idea of the schedule for ETN and then we just made sure we were at the correct terminal at the right time. The bus terminal in Guadalajara is huge - I think there are 7 buildings, and the taxi just dropped us at the right one. While the staff at the desk didn't speak English, I was able with my limited Spanish to make the arrangements when we got there. They took visa so we charged our tickets. The bus was maybe 20% filled, so there were lots of seats. (We were going from Guadalajara to PV.)

cmarlin20

La Casa de Espiritus Alegres would not be a choice of mine in GTO, it is too far from the center of town and overdone. I would stay at Posada Santa Fe and request a back room. I personally love SMA, I've stayed there several times, renting a house for a month. Very inexpensive, yes thaere are many foreigners. It is quite cold in the area in February. I also love Tlaquepaque, there I stayed in the B&amp;B Villa del Ensueno, very convenient for shopping. If you want to shop it is great to go during the craft fair, I believe it is in February and September. It runs during the same time as the furniture expo in GDL. In October the International Cervantino Festival is held in GTO, very popular! You can buy tickets online if you are going to be there.<BR>My Spanish is limited, but I've never had a problem buying tickets or working with a cabbie, I've never seen a metered cab in Mexico, I didn't know they existed. I went to language school in GTO and SMA, many times I tried to use my Spanish the Mexico was trying to learn English and wanted me to speak English. GTO is much more Mexican than the other towns mentioned. Best thing about DH, the ice cream in the plaza, many different flavors. Spend the night in SMA just to see the church lit at night, beautiful!

Jamie

<BR>What time of the year do you think the daytime temp might be around 80 deg. ?

eb

Appreciate all the great info from everyone! I usually research our trips beforehand, but my husband and I are thinking about taking a &quot;spur of the moment&quot; trip to San Miguele. Would like to keep expenses down, but would still like to stay in a nice place in a convenient location to everything. We're planning on staying about 5 nights. Any suggestions re accommodations and an itinerary will be most appreciated! eb from Texas

Kate2

This is great! Thanks nonstop!<BR>We are going to SMA sometime this summer. We are thinking of flying into Guadalajara , staying a night or two, then on to SMA and Guanajuato. <BR>My question today is<BR>How far is that drive from Guadalajara to San Miguel de Allende? Do we hire a car or a taxi? No buses (I get carsick<BR>We are thinking of staying at the Casa Schuck in SMA and the Luna in Guanajuato. Still figuring out where to stay in Guadalajara.<BR>Thanks for any advice, the more I learn the more there is to learn!

nonstop

Kate2: It is a good haul from GDL to SMA. I would think about 200 miles since it took us 3 1/2 hrs on the bus with a quick stop in Leon. I would think it would be quite expensive to hire a car to take you from GDL to SMA. Suggestion: If you are only planning to go to GDL for 1 night, why not bypass it and just fly into Leon which is only 35 minutes from GTO. Stay in GTO for a couple of days and then go to SMA for a few days (or vice versa). I think the Hotel Luna would be fine. Good location. Don't know about the rooms, think it is quite decent.