I have been following this thread with interest. Let's get back to the facts. The original poster is in reality now 15 or 16 and is looking at a trip 16 months from now. According to her:

"We've both traveled some, if not a lot. U was in Croatia visiting family less than a year ago, and did some traveling on her own then. I've never been outside the US, but I have been in most of the Western states, and taken a road trip from Portland to Long Island and spent three weeks there - without parents, but with an older sister (23 YO). I pretty much live in LA, so I don't think the enormity and differences of Europe will be too shocking."

Please try to now think only in response to the facts. This is a 17 year old who has never been outside of the US. She has an 18 year old friend who has been to a part of Europe where she speaks the language and has relatives. They will both just have graduated from high school. Neither will have had the experience of living without parental supervision such as a year of college would provide.

Veering from the facts, we must assume that she is supported by her parents. Thus, they are paying for the bulk of her education, clothes, food, insurance, transportation etc. while she is at home. Apparently all the OP will be paying for are the costs of her trip. (And an aside to those of you who are not familiar with the cost of higher education in the US, costs can be anywhere from about $4000 annually for just tuition at a community college to $40,000 for tuition, room and board at a private college.)

Now, taking all of this into account, and the fact that she is from Los Angeles, what do you really think? The question is about 2 people these ages with these backgrounds. It is not whether or not you really had a great time doing this when you were 20 or 23 or whatever. And, it is not about parenting style preferences.

julies, you are such a royal kill-joy.

How dare you make folks face cold hard facts when they can focus just on fun. We all KNOW Europe is super safe and even a country bumkin of 12 or 13 can easily navigate old Europe with speed and flair.

Seriously, you make some good points.

I'm afraid that here in Britain we are unlikely to have any issue with it at all as it's perfectly normal for 'our' teenagers to do just this kind of trip.

I think, again with respect, that so many Americans (sorry but that does appear to be the case in the main) on here are SO nervous about travelling abroad and have to know everything down to the shape of ice that they'll get in drinks, that they tend to think that it's all big and scary.

And as for the financial aspect, with all respect, I don't think that's anyone's business other than those directly involved.

I agree with Tallulah.

If her parents trust her and she/they can afford it, I think she should go. Getting out of LA and into the European world will teach her a lot about life on another continent. Something very worthwhile.

Today they have internet and cell phones to keep in touch. If something goes wrong, they can always come home early.

I think you are going to run into US vs. European views on this. Each has strong views and neither will back down.

Just did a quick survey of our staff here in the American midwest. When I asked the question, "Would you let your 17 year old and a friend backpack through Europe alone for 4 to 8 weeks?" they literally looked at me like I was completely crazy. The answer was a resounding, "No!" I think the British have a different take on this, but then they send their children to boarding school when they are 8.

Interesting, rbnwdln. Just asked the six people around me in my office. We all said sure, of course if she/the parents have the $ and everyone's confident she's trustworthy, why couldn't she go?

We're in San Francisco. Maybe it's regional? Or is it because I work in "creative"?

As julies said, going back to the cold, hard facts, and taking another look at the British versus American angle...Let's not forget that backbacking across Europe is a lot closer to home for a child from England.

I like to think in the UK we try to teach our children to be independent by the time they reach 18.

My eldest daughter, now aged 16, has travelled to France twice alone. OK, both times she has been staying with friends and met by them at the airport, but she has had to change planes/terminals at CDG, and I am proud of her and the fact she was able to do that at 15. I was worried, but I trusted her and her judgement. I won't say she KNEW what to do if in trouble because IMO that only comes with age and experience, but she was TOLD what to do if certain circumstances arose (thankfully they didn't) and she had a great time and has gained in confidence and grown immensely as a person from being allowed that freedom. I have absolutely no regrets that I let her do it.

This summer she will be travelling by train to the south of France with a few girlfriends. I know who she will be with, I know where they are going, and I am reasonably happy with this proposed trip - yes I have some reservations, but I think that's normal. I'd have reservations if she was just hanging around with her friends here- she can get drunk or into trouble anywhere, not just abroad.) In just over a year my darling will have left school and be either off to university or on a gap year, and if she opts for the gap year, then it will be the far east, Africa, India or Australia/NZ. She will go with a friend, at least she will go with some experience of travelling, and she will go with my blessing - after all once she's 18 I can only advise her anyway. I would not presume to stop her.

When I went to Europe for the first time by myself, I was peppered with questions:

Where are you going? What is the name of the place at which you'll be staying? How much money do you have with you? When do you plan on returning? Can you open your bags please?

These questions were asked, not by my Mom, but by immigration at Heathrow.

(Pity I didn't have this thread back then to soothe those nervous-Nellie British officials .. )

As for the question, it's unanswerable, because it's really 20 questions (at least), not one.

Oh, I forgot to say that she does work to contribute to her trips. For her gap year she will have to fund most of it.

I think the difference in independence is a large part of the picture. In europe many kids leave school (what we would call "quit achool&quot at 16 and it's not assumed that almost all kids will go to college - which seems in the US to extend the age of majority to 21 - that is, you're not an adult until you're finished with school.

There is also a tendency for americans to protect their children instead of helping them mature. (Only one example - one of my neighbors won;t let her 15 year old bike to the 7/11 - about half a mile away in a middle class residential area - for fear that she will be adbucted. At 10 my mother thought nothing of letting me bike to the library alone - a much longer distance. The world really isn;t much more dangerous - parents are just so busy protecting their children they're not helping them develop life skills and mature.) Naturally parents must do the first - but they also must do the second - and IMHO many parents don;t make a strong effort in that direction, since they see it as the opposite of protecting them - instead of the next step in the process. And then they end up with 25 year old children and wonder why.

If these young adults can pay for the trip (and are either self-supporting or have supporting parents who feel they are mature enough for the trip) I can't really see any risk here. It is europe - not mars.

(Since I'm not allowed to talk abut how well my trip at 19 turned out - because ???.)

Both of my step daughters did trips like this - had great times and no major problems - but then they were big city kids with the savvvy and sophistication that usually implies. But the large number of minor problems thay had to cope with and successfully overcame helped them develop more adult attitudes and self confidence - and accept responsilibiity for their own decisions - and isn;t that what parents are supposed to be doing?

Certainly, I have a 19 year old brother-in-law who could use a little dose of being self-sufficient. Not to mention a little responsibility. You have to cut them loose sometime...

Even just looking at the "cold hard facts", I stand by my response in Part One of this thread. I'd be comfortable with these two young women going on the trip.

BTW, this is an American viewpoint, since some are keeping track of that.

Diane

Julies, Did someone ask you to repost this question? Putting your own twist on it? I think the original thread from our original poster was much more interesting that your rehash of the situation.

I say here what I said there, if she has earned the money herself and is doing the planning herself, then YES I think she should go.

I don't care that they've never been outside the US before, or that they have no experience living without parental supervision... so WHAT? We all had to start somewhere. And this young woman seems very much to have her wits about her and be a very intelligent and thoughtful person. More so than the knee-jerk reactions from many of the "adults" that replied.

I don't think it is so much an American vs. European difference of opinion, I believe strongly that it is also that Fodor's attracts a more conservative middle age crowd.

Just trot yourself over to Lonely Planet's forum, The Thorn Tree and you will find loads of teenages who are doing or have successfully done exact what is being proposed here, from all over the world.

I'm still curious why we are talking behind the girl's back on a new thread though. Seems kinda rude.

I'm still curious why we are talking behind the girl's back on a new thread though. Seems kinda rude.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I'm still curious why we are talking behind the girl's back on a new thread though. Seems kinda rude."

WHAT???? She posted pretending to be her mother! No doubt so she could show her mother and whine, "See! All these people think I should go!"

I have to say,loads of Americans(I am American) are nervous nellies!I am 41,and I can't tell you how many times people have told me how brave I am to go to Italy alone.Imagine what they said when they heard I was going to India!

rbnwdln- Reread the original post!!! She most certainly did NOT pretend to be her mother. That's what we all assumed. She never said that.

I started a new thread (which I am sure she'll see if she checks back) because that thread had 1.) a gazillion replies, 2.) veered way off the original question in many ways, and 3.) in some places had degenerated basically into nane calling. The original question had gotten lost.

again, your view only. i didn't see it that way at all. i still say it is strange to take up someone else's post as your own.