tara3056

I'm trying to plan a month-long trip that will start sometime during the last week of April 2007, so everything's still pretty tentative right now. Here's how it's looking so far...

London: 5 nights (fly to AMS)
Amsterdam: 3 nights (AMS-Bruges = 4hr train)
Bruges: 2 nights (Bruges-Paris = 3.5hr train)
Paris: 5 nights (to Loire = 1hr train + rental car)
Loire River Valley: 2 nights
Back to Paris for 1 night (1hr train)
Bernese Oberland: 3 nights (8hrs by train from Paris)
- On 1 of the 2 full days (weather permitting), take train to Jungfraujoch -
Venice: 5 nights (7 hours by train from Bernese Oberland)
Rome: 6 nights (5 hours by train from Venice)

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Obviously, getting from Paris - Switz - Venice is the longest bit of travel. It could be pretty tough. We'd arrive in Interlaken/Wengen/wherever we choose in the late afternoon, grab dinner, head to bed, and then have 2 full days there before getting back on a 7 hr train to Venice. We'd really love to see the Alps, though.

I think this plan is pretty do-able. We're trying to strike a balance between being able to enjoy the places we visit, and being able to see a lot of places because the odds are high that this is a once-in-a-lifetime kind of trip (or at least once-in-the-next-decade!). We're very fortunate to have the funds, vacation time, and lack of kids at this point in our lives, and we want to make the most of it.

MacPrague

Okay, so there's one question that I have, and I'm sure that there are Paris devotees who can give you better guidance than I can.

Can you switch your visit to the Loire valley to before Paris? Bruges through Paris for the rental car and then onto the Loire the same day?

My first impression is that it looks like you will be packing and unpacking a lot, but the length in most of your cities looks pretty good to me. I haven't been to Bruges or Loire, so I can't comment there. Unless you're just set on both, maybe pick one or the other with more time (or tack the difference onto Switzerland since you clearly want to go there, and it's exquisite)? (I just got home from a week in Switzerland after spending a lot of time in some of the bigger places, and the opportunity it gives to just stop and relax is just undeniable. Perhaps a couple of extra days would really make it a respite for you in the middle of the other cities you will be visiting.) Just a thought.

I would, though, if it's possible, do Loire ahead of Paris and avoid that one night of Paris. Better to chunk it in with the rest of Paris and unpack once.

Then you'd have: London-Amsterdam-Bruges/Loire-Paris-Bernese Oberland-Venice-Rome. Are you flying home from Rome?

Dukey

I suggest you look into the possibility of using a budget flight from Paris to Switzerland to decrease the time needed for travel.

You could take the one hour flight on EasyJet to Geneva and get a train from there into the BO.

Of course, you have to be aware of the baggage weight restrictions.

Just a thought.

Kate_W

MacPrague:

I might not be reading the itinerary right but I think tara3056 is planning to spend 5 nights in Paris after Bruges before going to the Loire. So perhaps the comment you made might apply more to their one night stopover in Paris before they catch the train to Switzerland.

And now back to the itinerary. Have you considered visiting a wine country region to the east of Paris (instead of the west), so that you can travel Paris - wine country - Switerland without backtracking through Paris. It would shorten or break up the train ride to Switzerland. Options would include the Champagne region, Burgundy or - my personal favourite - Alsace. Alsace is the furthest east and north, quite close the Swiss border and it's quite charming. Very distinctive white wines and some charming villages (not Loire chateaux but charming in their own right). Then you could take the train from Strasbourg to Switzerland.

The only other comment I have is that you might be shortchanging Switerland a bit. Perhaps you might consider 4 nights there and shaving off a night in Rome. I might be biased, but Rome left me unmoved. Perhaps it was because I visited at the end of an Italian trip, but I ended up thinking "ho hum, like a large, crowded and disfunctional city with some ancient monuments thrown in". I'm sure it's worth the visit and worth at least 4 nights, but possibly you could get by with only 4 days there (4-5 nights).

Dejais

I agree with MacPrague about Loire/Paris. And I think you seem to have a nice plan so far. Your stops are fairly long and destinations progress in a good order. My only suggestion (which you may have already planned anyway) is to take overnight trains on the long journeys. We did this between Venice and Naples last year and it worked out great. We left at midnight and arrived in Naples somewhere around 7am. We realy lost no touring time and were able to sleep the night away in comfort. For us, it was a perfect solution to fitting in all of the places we wanted to see.

tara3056

I tried looking in to train schedules from the Loire region (Amboise, Tours) straight to Switzerland (Interlaken area), but all those trains go through Paris anyway... lengthening that portion of the trip by another hour or hour and a half. So that's why I put that we would go back to Paris for the night before getting up and heading towards Switzerland, but I am *really* open to suggestions on how to re-arrange this tentative plan!

Yes, we will be flying out of Rome.

Kate: I am not all that interested in Rome, either - just can't get excited about it, despite having majored in History. My husband, though, can't seem to swallow the idea of being in Italy and not going to Rome. He wants to go there much more than I do, so I kept it.

But, do, please tell me more about Switzerland... We're both in decent shape, but we have no desire to do any skiing, serious hiking, or any other athletic-type activities. Would staying a night or two longer in the Bernese Oberland area make sense for us?

As for the suggestion about taking a budget flight from Paris - Switzerland, I will definitely keep that in mind. My concern is that it would be cheaper to have that trip be a segment on our rail pass, and also that by the time we got to the airport, checked in, boarded, arrived in Geneva, then got to the train station and went from there to Interlaken... it might only shave off 2 or 3 hours from the train trip. (The 8 hour figure I gave includes transfer time between trains.)

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Keep it coming, guys! I appreciate this advice so much. I agree that it looks like we will be doing a lot of packing and unpacking and I'd love to do anything to improve that situation without compromising terribly much on how much we're able to see.

tara3056

Dejais - Good idea, but my husband and I both are completely unable to sleep on both planes and trains

ira

Hi T,

Is the Loire visit to see the chateaux or the wine country. If the latter, the suggestion for Alsace or Burgundy is a good one.

>My husband, though, can't seem to swallow the idea of being in Italy and not going to Rome. <

We've been to Venice many times and haven't yet visited Rome.

You have 11 nights in Italy. May I suggest:

Venice - 3 nights
Florence - 4 nights - daytrip to Siena
Rome - 4 nights - daytrip to Orvieto?

tara3056

Ira - the Loire region would be for the chateaux and scenery, not for the wine.

Regarding wine:

I'd love to see the Champagne region, as it's probably our favorite type of wine, but I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice anything else for it. We also are rather fond of red wine, both Bordeaux (Cab/Merlot) and Burgundy (Pinot), but do not care for white wine at all - besides Champagne, of course.

missypie

I'd rent an apartment- with kitchen and washing machine0 for a week in both Paris and Rome. Take 2 days off of Venice and add it to Rome (take day trips from Rome if you want). Take day trips from Paris (including Brugge).

Dukey

I appreciate your clarification that you are traveling on rail passes and had I known that would not have bothered you with the flight suggestion.


You could shave almost two hours off that Paris-BO rail time if you were willing to leave on the TGV service to Bern but assume you already know that.

Have a nice trip.

tara3056

No, I hadn't seen that - Thank you Dukey! =)

macanimals

I don't want to rain on this parade but... The trip is planned for next April and the Switzerland portion could be a problem weatherwise. I'm a major fan of the Berner Oberland but that is because of the outdoor activities and hiking. April is too late to ski and too early to hike from what I've heard so be prepared.
The rest of your trip looks fantastic and I echo others in saying you seem to be allowing sufficient time for each stop. Maybe the Swiss time could be added to Italy-Florence? Cheers Paul

Budman

With no hiking/skiing, it should be fine just spending 3 days in Bernese Oberland.

Maybe on the way from Venice to Rome, spend a couple of days in the Tuscany/Umbria areas and take some of the nights off of Venice/Rome.

tara3056

Thanks again for the replies - I will need some time to think/process the suggestions, but I do appreciate them.

Re: Swiss weather - well, technically the Swiss portion of the trip won't be happening until May 18-20. Hopefully that helps a bit?

murphy89

I did that exact Paris, Loire Valley, Paris section you have planned. I wish I had kept Paris altogther as MacPrauge suggests - unless there is a specific reason for keeping it this way.

It worked out alright. I left my luggage at Gare D'Austerlitz and just took a small backpack with me instead.

Good Travels,

Murphy

murphy89

I meant to say a specific reason outside of an extra hour or so on the train. That is much less inconvenient then changing hotels an extra night.

Murphy

Budman

We were in Switzerland 21-30 May of this year. Mid-60's during the day, lower 50's at night. Gets cooler at the higher elevations. You will need coats, hats, and gloves for the Jungfraujoch, for sure.

Wekiva

We were in the B.O. region of Switzerland in 1999 around May 7 and as mentioned above it was too late to ski and too early to hike. The problem isn't the temperature but the condition of the trails. Many of them have some snow on them but just enough to keep them really muddy. I am sure there are trails accessible at that time but we didn't see any. We stayed in Wengen at the Hotel Regina which I have to say is one of the highlights of my life. The views and peacefulness of the town is truly incredible. If you want to be even more secluded try Murren.

During our trip we trained from Paris to Wengen and I believe we left around 8am and got in at 6pm. We did have to take a longer route than originally planned due to some rail strikes (if i remember correctly...it's been a while).

Sounds like a great trip with a good amount of time at the stops. Have fun.