ahmedhaff

Thanks to the incredibly helpful folks here, we had a wonderful (but short) trip to Paris last December.

Now we (wife, daughter (11), son (9) and me) are planning a 9 or 10 day trip to Austria and Germany.

We have thought of the following so far:

Fly into Hamburg, train to Munich (please suggest where else to stay in between), train to Salzburg (that's our principal attaction in Austria), train to Vienna and fly out of Vienna.

Don't want to spend more than a day each at Salzburg and Vienna (pricipally doing this for the memories of Sound of Music implanted in two generations!).

Would be very grateful with suggestions on how many days to spend, what to do etc.

thanks

ira

Hi A,

>Don't want to spend more than a day each at Salzburg and Vienna (pricipally doing this for the memories of Sound of Music implanted in two generations!).<

Highly not recommended.

I suggest that you plan at least two nights in Salzburg and 3 in Vienna.

For your route from Hamburg to Munich, you might want to stop off in Wurzburg or Rothenburg ob der tauber.

tcreath

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to spend more time in Vienna? Now I'll be honest; I thought that one day in Salzburg was more than enough time for me to see all of the sights I wanted to see. Vienna is a gorgeous city though, and you will barely scratch the surface in one day.

If you are looking to see some Austrian countryside between Salzburg and Vienna, the Wachau Valley is gorgeous, and Krems is only about an hour from Vienna by train. I suggest heading to the small town of Melk. The Melk Abbey is just spectacular, and a highlight of our Germany/Austria tour. The town itself is quite pleasant and has several good restaurants/cafes. From there you can take a boat to Krems, allowing for wonderful vistas of the wine region, quaint little villages, and the ruined castle of Richard the Lion-Hearted nesting high above Durnstein.

The countryside around Salzburg is very nice and would make for a great couple of days. Both the Berchtesgaden region and the Salzkammergut are very close by and you will see some amazing scenery and crystal-clear lakes, although with beautiful little towns. Do a research here for both if you are interested; there has been lots of discussions on them.

Good luck!
Tracy

zootsi

The countryside just west of Vienna (Wachau Valley), is some of the most scenic in Austria, and fabulous for biking, with a safe, flat path following the Danube. A perfect way to have a fun day with the kids. Try and plan an overnight in Weisenkirchen, Spitz or one of the other small winery villages in this area. I also agree that one night in Vienna is not nearly enough.

Chicago_Heather

When are you going? December again? That changes suggestions for how long and where to divide your time.

Why are you flying into Hamburg? If this isn't booked, can you switch your arrival into Munich?

In agreement with the others, it's too little time in Vienna. And, if you only want one day in Salzburg, do it as a daytrip from Munich. It's too much traveling, packing/unpacking, etc., especially with children.

SAnParis

My first question would be, why fly into Hamburg ? If you can fly into Munich I would probably split my time between the 3 cities maybe 3/2/3. Munich is a great base to explore from. Otherwise, Wurzburg & Rothenburg are both excellent stop-overs from Hamburg.

PalQ

As for the train - you should take a good look at the Germany-austria flexipass, a railpass good in Germany and Austria, on all trains without needing reservation, surcharges, etc.
Your two kids would pay half-price for the pass as they're under 12 - train fares - full fares at stations in Germany are very high so that's where the pass would be most valuable and perhaps warrant its purchase.
Curent Eurail Germany-Austria pass prices: (1st two prices are for kids under 12 - 1st and 2nd class p.p. - second two prices are for adults, again p.p. - this is a saverpass - all names on one pass.
5 days in 2 months $138.00 $117.00 $275.00 $234.00
6 days in 2 months $152.00 $130.00 $304.00 $260.00
7 days in 2 months $182.00 $157.00 $363.00 $313.00
8 days in 2 months $182.00 $157.00 $363.00 $313.00
10 days in 2 months $210.00 $182.00 $420.00 $364.00

thus the 5-day minimum pass is less than $50/day for adults and $25/day for kids in 2nd class. Compare fares at www.bahn.de (for Germany) - an easy way to reach the English schedule and fare page of the German rail web site, or bahn.de site is to go to: www.budgeteuropetravel.com and on their home page click on the link "All European Railway Schedules" and instantly pops up the English page with two boxes - put in hamburg and munich and the date and you'll get all the trains for that day and time and the fares in euros - then evaluate the pass.
Some would recommend going to www.railsaver.com but that compares prices from RailEurope to the pass and these are often grossly inflated so that site is useless practically in determining the efficacy of a German/austria pass - like comparing apples to oranges. Raileurope markets these passes in the US - this pass is not to my knowledge available in Europe - i always recommend BETS, whose home page i referenced for their expertise in my years of dealing with them - ask on the home page for their superb and free European Planning & Rail Guide which has chapters with rail maps, etc. on both Germany and Austria. www.ricksteves.com and www.euraide.com also have good info on Germany/austria trains.

ahmedhaff

Thank you all.

Flying into Hamburg is based on flight convenience from out here - it could just as well be Munich, but I thought Hamburg might be a nice place to visit as well.

Our trip is mainly focused on Germany - we just thought why not include Austria as well. With all that I am hearing, I am now thinking maybe we should extend the trip and actually spend 4/5 days in Austria.

We are planning the trip for late August.

Would you guys recommend skipping Hamburg altogether? I'm really confused!

FauxSteMarie

For starters, Hamburg is nowhere near Munich and Munich is nowhere near Vienna. You are covering too much ground for 10 days. Pick no more than 2 places and limit your stay to those two places.

Your itinerary includes too much time on trains as opposed to sightseeing.

Hamburg is not a bad place to visit either but it is very different from Bavaria.

Where you go depends on what you want to do, but your proposed itinerary is, well, ridiculous for such a short time.

You could spend the entire 10 days in Vienna and not be bored.

tcreath

ahmedhaff, because of the short time frame you have I would definitely suggest flying into Munich. For this trip I personally would focus on Bavaria and Austria. I think starting in Munich and ending in Vienna will make for a wonderful vacation.

Here is the itinerary I would use. Obviously my opinions can differ from yours, but these are just my thoughts. I would fly into Munich and spend a few nights there. From there I would train to Salzburg (an easy 1.5 hour train ride) and plan on staying there for several nights, using it as a base to explore the surrounding region. From there you could train to the Wachau Valley, perhaps for a night, and then continue on to Vienna for the final nights of your trip. How many nights in each place will depend on what you want to do, but I would do 2 nights in Munich, 4 nights in Salzburg, 1 night in the Wachau Valley, and 3 nights in Vienna.

zootsie may a wonderful idea...biking in the Wachau. We did this and it was wonderful. We biked from Krems to Spitz and it made for just a splendid day. The bike path is extremely easy to follow, and your children would probably love it.

Good luck with your planning!
Tracy

ahmedhaff

Thanks all - forgive my ignorance, but I am not familiar with both countries.

From the advice I am receiving, it seems that we should likely focus the trip on Bavaria.

We included Vienna because flights out are easier from there so I thought why not include it as well because we definitely want to go to Salzburg.

So, if we we fly into Munich, spend a week in Germany, go to Salzburg for 3 days and on to Vienna for 2 days.

The only thing I now need to explore is what to do in Germany during that week, where all to go etc. Any pointers will be gretaly appreciated.

SAnParis

I would second Tracy's ideas...Hamburg is just too far to be included in this particular trip.

tcreath

If you are wishing to explore Bavaria further, you have many options. One option could be to train from Munich to Fussen and see Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau, the famous Ludwig castles. From this region you could easily explore Garmisch-Partenkirschen, Oberammergau, and Mittenwald. Your children would certainly love seeing the castles.

Salzburg is about 20 minutes from Berchtesgadenland, a stunning piece of Bavaria that we stayed in for a week last year. Berchtesgaden itself is worth a visit; its a small town with a little castle. From there you could visit the Eagle's Nest and then head over to Schonau to take a ride on the Konigssee, a crystal clear lake, and/or take a ride up to Mt. Jenner.

We had a car in this area, but from what I understand its easy to get from Salzburg to Berchtesgaden by train, and then getting to Schonau from Berchtesgaden by bus.

Don't discount the Salzkammergut as well. Another hour or so from Salzburg, Hallstatt is a lovely village purchased on a tiny piece of land in front of a gorgeous lake with a beautiful mountain as its backdrop.

As you can see, there is no shortage of things to do. As mentioned in my suggestion above, I would spend enough time in Salzburg to see the town itself but also have enough time to explore its beautiful surroundings.

Tracy

Larryincolorado

If you take the train from Salzburg to Berchtesgaden (via Freilassing) it takes an average of over an hour and cost €7,60 each way per adult. Children under 15 may be free; even so, that is over €30 RT.

There is a bus called the Watzmann express that leaves the Salzburg Hbf just about every hour from 8:15 to 18:15. It takes 45 minutes to the Berchtesgaden Hbf. A day ticket (Tagesticket) for a family (parents & all children under 15) is €18,-. With the day ticket you also get unlimited use of the RVO (Regionalverkehr Oberbayern) buses in Berchtesgaden, so you could go to Schönau am Königssee or to Hintereck, all for that price.

[Note: Hintereck is the starting point for buses to Kehlsteinhaus (Eagles' Nest). These special buses are not included in the Watzmann Ticket. The road to Kehlsteinhaus is a private road served by the special buses. Your only other option is to hike.]

There is more info on the Watzmann express at www.stadtbus.at/content.php?id=1263. Sorry, it's in German.

[email protected]

Larryincolorado

OK, so you are going to fly into Munich. The MVV (Münchner Verkehrs- und-Tarifverbund) sells a Partner all-zones day ticket for €17. You can buy it at the airport. It is good for up to five people (your whole family) on all the transport of the MVV (S & U-bahn, streetcars, and buses) for the entire day. It gets you not only into the Hauptbahnhof, but to your hotel and everywhere else you might want to go in Munich the rest of the day.

Compare that with the Lufthansa bus at €30 (€10 adult, €5 child) plus that only gets you to the Hauptbahnhof. Then you still have to get to your hotel. If you also buy a €8,50 partner innerzone day ticket that will cover getting to your hotel plus any travel the rest of the day, but €38,50 versus €17?

For most days in Munich, you should get the 8,50 Innerzone partner day ticket. Almost everthing you might want to see in Munich is in the inner zone, with the possible exception of Dachau, for which you need a partner XXL day ticket for €11,50.

MaureenGP

It's amazing how different travelers can be. We just returned yesterday from a trip to Prague (4 nights), Vienna (3 nights), and Salzburg (4 nights). Four of us were traveling together, including two 22-year-olds, a 56-year-old and a 53 year-old.
Probably because of the heat, our least favorite destination was Vienna, although we did like it, and it became clear that all four of us preferred quaint places like Prague and Salzburg. All of us wanted more time in Salzburg, not less. Even though it is a small city, it serves as a great jumping off point for many of the places suggested above. We did the "Sound of Music" tour, and all of us liked it. We also took a tour to the Eagle's Nest, which has great views, but it was very foggy the morning we visited. We found the Eagle's Nest itself kind of creepy, given its associations with Hitler.
We rented a car and spent a day in Hallstatt, which was a highlight of our trip. The younger ones did a salt mine tour there.
I'm not well-traveled in this area at all, but if your main focus is on Germany, I would suggest a day trip to Salzburg for a half-day "Sound of Music" tour and a look around the old part of the city, and leave Vienna for another time.

Larryincolorado

Before anyone considers taking one of the Sound of Music tours in Salzburg, I suggest they get the latest DVD, the one with the commentary by director Robert Wise - and watch, and listen to, it!

Just walking around town, you can see most of the authentic locations from SOM. Coming from the train station, stop first at the Mirabelle Palace, where you can see the Pegasus fountain, the Dwarf garden, the Do-Re-Mi steps, the arbor, etc. Go on into town and see the sights of the old city, many of which appear in the movie, such as the Residenz, where they hung the Nazi flag after the Anschluss. Go up the incline to the Hohensalzburg fortress. It's interior wasn't in the movie, but it is interesting. On the way down (walk across the drawbridge), stop by the Nonnenburg Abbey, where Marie supposedly was a candidate to be a nun.

All these you can see without a tour. However, so many scenes from the movie were shot in Hollywood or on temporary sets that no longer exist. The tours might show you a copy of the original gezebo, or maybe it is the reproduction at Hellbrunn. However, all of the close-up shots of the gazebo were shot in a Hollywood sound stage - they had to control the rain. The lakeside scenes, like where they tip over the rowboat, were shot at a temporary set on the lake near Leopoldskron - not at Leopoldskron. The shots where Maria talks to the captain after wading ashore were actually shot in two locations - the scenes looking at the lake were shot at the fake boat landing - the shots with the house in the background, were shot at a house they choose to use as the Von Trapp family home, although it wasn't, and it was nowhere near a lake.

The only scene I would like to have seen is the church at Mondsee, where the wedding shots were filmed, but it is not worth taking a phony $50 tour just to see it.

Watch it before you go, or you will feel like a fool when you finally do.

BTilke

Larry, it's not necessary to browbeat people who want to take a SoM tour. I took one in May with my mother and certainly do NOT feel like a fool for doing so. The tours are NOT just about SoM, they are about many other things as well, such as how St. Gilgen has changed over the years since the SoM, the Hangman's house in Salzburg, etc.

There is nothing in the least shameful or foolish about taking a SoM tour if you want an overview of the area or if you aren't capable of walking great distances.

Since you never took a SoM tour, why are you so *compelled* to sneer at them?

Larryincolorado

True, I have never taken a tour, and knowing now what I know, I never will.

Have you ever watched the SOM DVD while listening to the Robert Wise commentary?

It really disgusts me the way these tours have stretched the truth to put together something to suck in the tourists.

Sorry.

ahmedhaff

You guys are so amazingly helpful - it would be inconceivable to plan a trip without you! Thanks.

So here's my developing stroy so far:

We fly into Munich (mid August) and spend 5 nights there. Another 4 nights in Salzburg and 3 in Vienna.

As we speak, we are exploring options as to what to do around these days.

Munich question: Is is better (certainly sounds conveneient) to base in Munich and do day trips or would it be better to cut a night out of Munich and sepnd that somewhere enroute to Salzburg? (Our preferred mode of travel is trains - we have a great Eurail deal).

Salzburg question : preferable to stay in town or a bit outside (any suggestions?)

Thanks, once again, for all your help.

Ahmed