Why not Greece?

Old Jun 24th, 2004, 04:50 PM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why not Greece?

Why Americans prefer other European destinations (like italy, spain, france)to Greece?
nana79 is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 06:14 PM
  #2  
P_M
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am not aware that this is true. I have visited all of the countries you named, more than once, and I liked Greece as much as any part of Europe. If Greece does in fact get fewer American tourists than Italy, Spain, or France, it's probably because Greece is a little farther away and slightly more expensive to get there. However, it is well worth the extra time and money. I think the upcoming Olympics will help promote tourism in Greece.
P_M is online now  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 07:00 PM
  #3  
cmt
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,793
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I love Greece. The main reason I don't go there more often is that it requires a long, usually expensive flight from the US. Also because I don't know Greek, it requires more careful planning. I can't just go there and wing it as I might in a country where I can speak, or at least understand, the language.
cmt is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 08:09 PM
  #4  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not American, but for what it's worth I love Greece. I'd go back there any time, and I'd island-hop across to Turkey - another "top" place!
twoflower is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 09:15 PM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I love Greece also, and have been 4 times, but it is a loooong flight from California. I've usually gone to Greece as part of a longer European trip, so that I'm flying from London instead of San Francisco. I hope to return many more times.
Marilyn is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 10:50 PM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Presumably because Greece is nowhere near as nice.

I can't speak for Americans, but I've no difficulty at all explaining why I (a Brit) go to Greece far less often than I go to Italy or France.

It has nothing like as much stuff to see as mainstream Europe. Its food ranges from mediocre to awful (Britain is just about the only country in Europe where the food is as bad). Greece's laws - certainly till recently - made it impossible for fellow EU citizens to buy holiday properties in much of tourist Greece. And allowed Greece's police to arrest and imprison innocent plane-spotters. Its hotels lack the charm of Italy and France. In recent living memory, Greece has been ruled by a fascist junta, so many of us boycotted the country. For many people, Greek is a less penetrable language than Europe's Latin-derived languages (even with a university degreee in the versions of Greek used two thousand years ago, I'm a lot more fluent in French and Italian than in dimotiki or katharevousa).

And right now, the evidence is that Greece's shambolic mismanagement of the Olympics will reduce tourism still further.

For all that. personally I've had a lot of enjoyable holidays throughout Greece, and have every intention of repeating the experience many more times.

But nana79 asked the question. It would be wrong to fail to offer a truthful answer, however unpalatable it might be.
flanneruk is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 11:14 PM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Greece gets tons of tourists from the Britain every year FlannerUK and 40 years of the fascist Franco didn't stop them visiting Spain on cheap package holidays!
LolaLasagne is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 11:26 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Actually, 40 years of fascist dictatorship DID prevent tourism to Spain: every pinko acquaintance of mine steered clear of the place till Franco was safely tucked in his grave. It simply didn't prevent mass tourism.

But Lola reminds me of another reason many people don't go to Greece. Not even the Riviera has been as despoiled by mass tourism as much of Greece has.

And that's not just ugly hotels (though they've killed the Corfu I loved as a child). It's even uglier Northern European tourists.

Admittedly it's not Greece's fault the worst sort of British and German louts ravage Rhodes. But they're not something you have to contend with in Ravenna or a Provencal hill town.
flanneruk is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2004, 11:41 PM
  #9  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
flanneruk
I find your comments about Greece offensive and also (dare I say) ignorant. For what it's worth here's my opinion on some of the points you make:
The country that gave birth to civilisation as we know it can hardly be said to have "not as much stuff as mainstream Europe".
It is simply not true that Greek laws make it impossible for foreigners to buy property in Greece. In EVERY part of Greece I have been to there have been several properties owned by Swiss, Germans, English, etc.
The language is not a barrier in the sense that about 90% of the Greek population speak English (and a great number also speak other languages).
Greek food - although not always very distinct from say Turkish cuisine - is simply delicious, varied and very interesting, so long as you choose to eat where the locals eat, rather than the tavernas that are addressed solely to foreigners.
There was indeed a military junta which ended in 1973, however this also marks one of the most glorious eras of political might, resistance and ideology of the population: the junta was overthrown by the fight of the Greek people.
As with every country there are hotels and hotels: some of them very beautiful others less so.
You cannot talk about an Olympic shambles without full knowledge of the facts. The Olympic Comittee (the international one I mean) has recently admitted that Greece is indeed on target for all development now. There have been numerous errors, even some mismanagement but you can't single out Greece for this nor can you judge before the actual event. Every country has problems of infrastructure (look at the state of our trains/tube here in London!).
And also may I say that though I have lived in the UK for 8 years now and love it, there is a heavy criticism to be laid on British tourism in Greece which shows no respect for the local culture and laws, which is raucous and violent. You only have to look at resorts such as Kavos in Corfu which are frequently in the paper for their decadent out of control behaviour. (And not just in Greece). Obviously there are many many exceptions to this rule, but it explains a lot about the way the police will treat Brittons who break the law. And it has also contributed to the "fast-food" style development of tourist facilities to cope with the demands of these kind of tourists.
Myrto is offline  
Old Jun 25th, 2004, 12:35 AM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Personally, I'd like to know which Fodors editor is posing as a poster in order to conduct a tourism survey?
TopMan is offline  
Old Jun 25th, 2004, 12:38 AM
  #11  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TopMan,
I'm curious, what makes you think they're conducting a tourism survey? You think the original post wasn't genuine?
Myrto is offline  
Old Jun 25th, 2004, 01:28 AM
  #12  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
nana

I'm not American, but for what it's worth:

A friend of mine went to Greece last month and loved it. It was her and her husband's first choice, they didn't even consider Italy and France. They went with a group of friends, and visited various islands (Corfu, Santorini, among others.)

However, she and her husband belong to a frequent flyer airline program. The number of flyer points required to fly to Greece was considerably greater than to fly to France or Italy. This points out a practical issue that has already been raised by other posters (e.g. PM and cmt): Greece is simply that much further away from many North American airline gateways, and involves more complex air routes for many people. Paris, as compared to Athens, is an 'easy' destination in this respect; there are direct connections to Paris from many cities, but not to Athens.

A second point: Greece for whatever reason doesn't seem to be marketed as extensively as the other destinations you mention. For example, a well-known travel author and tour operator in the US (Rick Steves) has sold three million copies of his various travel guides, but to the best of my knowledge he doesn't have one out on Greece. Or if he does, it has appeared only recently (?)


Sue_xx_yy is offline  
Old Jun 25th, 2004, 09:52 AM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FlannerUK, mass packaged tourism was invented by Franco and his technocrats in the 60's....they shipped as many tourists as they could, and their money into Spain...I know, I am old enough to remember. I must say that I do find the antics on the young Brits in Greece to be disgusting and horrible...makes me feel ashamed to be British sometimes....
LolaLasagne is offline  
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 03:01 PM
  #14  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Topman:
I am not conducting a tourism survey, i am just curious to see why compared to other European countries Greece is doing poorly in the American market...
nana79 is offline  
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 03:18 PM
  #15  
Airlawgirl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sue xx yy post raises the most salient reason why Greece is not as well touristed by Americans than by Europeans- the fact of the matter is that Greece is a much more expensive and lengthier destination for Americans than for Europeans. In summer, I can talk to any number of persons from the U.K. who will be going to Crete, Rhodes somewhere in Greece for two full weeks or more, and their flight and hotel for those two weeks is some 60 per cent less than I would pay from the US to Greece for less than one week. Greece does appear at times to be pretty much overrun by the British and Germans on inexpensive package holidays though, which certainly contributes to the mass tourism criticism at play. I also happen to think there have been terrorism and safety issues in Greece throughout the mid-80's and 90's that have negatively impacted American tourism there. In early 1996, for example, a US Dept. of Transportation advisory was publicly announced declaring Athens Hellenikon to be unsafe due to lax security measures, and it required all US carriers, as well as foreign carriers departing from the US whose final destination was Athens, to advise pax buying tickets for Athens about the advisory. With a lot of US assistance, the Greeks got the message and upgraded airport security very quickly, and the advisory was lifted. Now, different story-very efficient and professional Greek airport security presence at Hellenikon.

And Flanneruk- you DO understand, don't you, about "innocent" plane-spotters??? Even in this country, I can tell you that groups of plane-spotters will be questioned (not necessarily imprisoned, unless there remains probable cause to do so) by law enforcement-and rightly so!

 
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 03:43 PM
  #16  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've been considering Greece, but my appetite is not increased by the shabby treatment of flanneruk's concerns here - attacks and gushy denials leave an impression there is a problem that is being covered up by folks with an agenda. It's funny how frankness is punished whether in a forum or a guidebook, so that the knowledgeable rarely dare share the real story.

Anyway, from a lot of travelogues I gather there are times and places in Greece that challenge touristic enjoyment, but I can't figure out where I would be happy. Don't want to be in a mindless party spot, yet don't want to be in an empty, quiet spot. Don't want to need to drive or deal with many buses or a chaotic unreliable ferry situation.

Sounds picky, but I'm wildly happy with almost any Italian coastal location - simple public transport, sublime food, compact walkable villages with loads of well preserved cultural remains and visual beauty. Maybe the improvements to Athens port with make ferry logistics easier, or maybe I would be best on a small cruise boat. Not sure which islands or coast to focus on; they all sound like they have a mix of plus and minus factors to me...
viking is offline  
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 03:56 PM
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No agenda on my part. I just love Greece. I love the light, the landscape, the food, the architecture of the island villages, the remains of ancient culture, the proximity of the sea, the people, and even the retsina.

I have not experienced some of the negatives that flanneruk has, and I have no experience with either buying property or getting arrested. My visits have been primarily to the islands, including Crete, and I've tried to avoid the more overdeveloped areas. But that problem is hardly confined to Greece. (Have you been in San Gimignano recently?)

I think some of flanneruk's reasons DO address the question of why Americans do not travel as much to Greece as to Italy or France. I think the language is much more daunting since it uses a different alphabet, and it is more time-consuming and expensive to get there. Also, if fodors is any indication, Americans seem primarily fascinated by Italy, France, and England, with Spain, Switzerland, Holland and Germany on the next tier.
Marilyn is offline  
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 05:06 PM
  #18  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Granted, I'm not American but... it wasn't the length of the flight or the language that bothered me. What held me up from going to Greece for so long was the difficulty in deciding where exactly to go. So many choices. But when I got there, I found it generally not very tourist friendly whether in remote areas or in those ruined by tourism. We found travel within the country awkward, some travel agents rude and unhelpful and taxi drivers mostly dishonest and surly. I've never experienced so many petty rip offs anywhere. Why would I want to spend my money there again when there are so many other great places in the world to experience?

Like it or not, the first thing I thought when I set foot in Greece was that it felt like a third world country, which is not to say I don't like third world countries. I would probably prefer most of them to Greece. Yes, the people in Athens are fashionably dressed but they wear cranky facial expressions as if they detest living there. In my opinion Greece had its heyday and has done little since.
April is offline  
Old Jun 26th, 2004, 05:44 PM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Flanneruk,

Your arguments are cogent and I agree with all your statements, except one:

"Admittedly it's not Greece's fault the worst sort of British and German louts ravage Rhodes."

Oh, but it is! As you then go on to say, one will not find similar hordes in Ravenna or in Provence. Because in Ravenna and in Provence, "enterprise," which another poster on a similar question has lauded highly as a progressive force, did not, or was not allowed to, take over and build another hotel, and then another hotel, and then still another hotel to allow more, and more, and still more of the louts to come and spend their money there.

Greece has been totally defaced by mass tourism, but not without the willing co-operation of greedy (Greek) entrepreneurs (as you also pointed out, I think, until relatively recently foreigners were not allowed to own any property at all in Greece) and the collusion of the Greek government.
Eloise is offline  
Old Jun 29th, 2004, 10:31 AM
  #20  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you all for your really inforamtive responses. You've helped alot...
nana79 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
trafaelwyr
Europe
42
Feb 8th, 2014 02:52 AM
EllensWords
Europe
8
Jun 30th, 2006 04:16 AM
odesseus
Europe
32
Oct 11th, 2004 10:51 PM
lweber
Europe
8
May 22nd, 2003 11:43 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -