mdtravel

I don't know that pickpocketing is more of a problem in Europe than anywhere else. Before I went to London, I heard all kinds of 'watch yourself' warnings. No problem at all. Now off to Italy and I'm falling back in to the paranoid trap. There are a lot of tourists who are careless and let themselves become the victim. Be careful and you'll be fine is my belief. I've never spent much time around train stations in NY or DC, but when I have I've not felt the safest.

elaine

This New Yorker actually felt a little intimidated when making her first visit to Rome a few years ago, I was actually worried for the first time in my travels that I would lose my bag or wallet to thieves. I even considered using a security wallet (neck cord) for the first time, though I didn't, and still don't.
I use a shoulder bag, I hold it close to my body when I'm in crowded situations, and I don't hang my bag on the back of my chair and forget about it. If I have to consult a map or guidebook, I step out of the way into a cafe or even a doorway, and find out what I need. I don't walk around feeling worried, just alert.

The closest I've ever come to even the possibility of an "incident" was in Rome, when in front of a church two urchins started to approach me while they were carrying a sign of some sort. I waved them away, and put a little extra in the church donation box.

aj

We have been to Europe on 5 trips and so far not had any trouble with "pickpockets" but we always try to be watchful and wear moneybelts. Your camera case sounds great but I think I would find it difficult to take my camera out for those special "snap quick before the moment changes" shots! I carry my camera in a small purse in front of me over one shoulder and around the neck. As you know many great phots will not wait for us to get the camera ready! Enjoy and don't obsess.

eliztrav

Scottee, yes. Moneybelts are worn under clothing. The idea is NOT to access them every time you want to pay for something! Keep your valuables safe in the moneybelt under your clothing while you are out and about. Don't access them in public. If you MUST, try to find a bathroom or private area so the world can't see that you are wearing one & may have something worth going after - plus, you give them a roadmap of where you've stashed your valuables! INSTEAD, put just the money and perhaps one credit card or whatever you think you'll use that day while out in a protected but more accessible spot. Leave the moneybelt alone once you've got it on. So, if you are robbed, you won't lose the passport, all your tickets, credit cards & cash.

Scottee25

Am I correct in assuming that money belts are used more by people that are unwilling to leave those items in their hotel room? I will be on a cruise for a majority of my trip and if I am not mistaken, each room has its own safe. I would use that to store my plane tickets and passport. I plan to carry a copy of important documents on me while in port. From the sounds of it, I may be set just walking around with my camera bag since it is not one of the easiest bags to get into. One for me and one for my wife should hold all the items we need(Camera, copies of important papers, maps/travel guides, my diabetic supplies, credit card, and a little cash) and hopefully, as long as we remain observant, keep them safe. I guess I am just being paranoid...not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

bigtyke

Check out Tilley.com for pickpocket resistant clothing. One of their sales lines is 'Pity the poor pickpocket'

smueller

If pickpocketing is no more of a problem in Europe than the US (as one poster suggested), why are there so many signs at major European tourist attractions warning people to watch their wallet? I have never seen such signs at Disneyworld or the Grand Canyon.

Regarding violent crime, you are more likely to be physically or sexually assaulted in western Europe than in the US. In many parts of western Europe, you are also more likely to be burglarized. Homocide rates are greater in the US, but not in most of the places that foreign tourists would likley be interested in visiting.

In response to the original question - why is pickpocketing more common in Europe than the US, there seems to be more tolerance of most forms of petty crime in Europe (drug abuse, vandalism, bike theft, short changing tourists, etc.).

lillehavfrue

>> If I am the subject of a thief and actually catch him in the act, what is my recourse? I am not sure how the laws are in many European countries. Atleast in the states I know I could get away with applying some karma until the police arrive.

I fed a knuckle sandwich to the only one ever stupid enough to try to rob me (this was in Amsterdam). What was he going to do, report me to the police? "I tried to mug some girl and she beat me up" haha. I also know a girl who found a strange hand in her purse, so she grabbed it and broke it.

But seriously, you're allowed to defend yourself but not allowed to exceed that which is absolutely necessary to protect your life (and certain degree possessinos).

elina

It is like derrinraw said. Pickpocketing may be a problem in some cities, but not in "Europe". I live in Europe, and I have travelled all around Europe for 40 years, and I have never been pickpocketed. And I don't wear a moneybelt, but my usual bag + vallet.

Karen

On the cruise ship, only carry your room key. But, when you go into port, you will need your passport, money, credit card, camera, etc. You will only need your passport to get back onto the ship, so keep it hidden. If you wife is modest and doesn't want to reach into her shirt, pants, to produce a passport for the agent, you carry it for her. If you are super concerned about mugging, keep your extra (paper) money in your sneakers. Only carry in your wallet what you are willing to lose.

Toupary

Message: "Regarding violent crime, you are more likely to be physically or sexually assaulted in western Europe than in the US. In many parts of western Europe, you are also more likely to be burglarized. Homocide rates are greater in the US, but not in most of the places that foreign tourists would likley be interested in visiting.

"In response to the original question - why is pickpocketing more common in Europe than the US, there seems to be more tolerance of most forms of petty crime in Europe (drug abuse, vandalism, bike theft, short changing tourists, etc.)."

Good grief, smueller, where are you getting your information? It's one thing to think everything is better here, but at least base it on facts.

I think I get your point. But if everything is so much better here, why would anyone want to visit those poor benighted countries?

marcus

If you're that worried why don't you just bring a more compact camera that will not draw so much attention to you.
Seriously, I see some tourists walking around with cameras more suited to studios. I'm often tempted to warn them that they're standing out like a sore thumb. All good advice from Marilyn earlier by the way. Unfortunately I can't answer as to why petty crime is such a problem in Europe, not that I've ever experienced it. I really think it's only a (small) problem in the larger cities. I'd worry more about cossing the road in some of these places. Relax and enjoy your trip.

Scottee25

Well I didn't really want to turn this into a flame war of the US vs Europe. We all have our vices and I wasn't trying to give the impression that I feel one is better than the other.

And lillehavfrue, good story That would have been nice to see And if I caught someone trying to rob me, I wouldn't beat him into unconciousness... just give him enough to know that robbing someone from Dee-Troit is a mistake

All in all, I don't know if I should be so concerned... when I was in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland back in 1990 I didn't have any problems and I think we would have been a prime group to get robbed... a bunch of drunk high school kids oblivious to our suroundings. Also didn't have any problem when I was in Ecuador even tho some people there always talked about this area and that area as ones to avoid. No one ever messed with me but I did get a lot of strange looks(Not a lot of gringos walking around down there with deep blue eyes ). On our trip to Puerto Rico, St Thomas, St Marteen, and St Croix pickpockets never even crossed my mind even though a poster says that they have a problem with them there. If Europe today is similar to what I have experienced with traveling, I am sure I won't have any problems.

Scottee25

Marcus,

My camera is small as far as cameras go but a good size for a digital camera. It is much smaller than professional 35mm cameras. It is by no means huge. I bought it 6 months ago. I bought a fairly expensive high quality camera so that it would last me for quite sometime. Going out and buying a new camera really defeats that purpose. But I am sure as long as the strap is around my neck and the camera is in my hand(I am not the type to let it hang there) I shouldn't have any problems.

lillehavfrue

Scottee: I grew up in the Detroit area - maybe that's why my first reaction was to beat the guy up? But cripes, I thought the first rule of the mugger's handbook was "Don't pick on anyone who is bigger than you." At least with bigger shoulders, biceps, thighs, whatever, even if that anyone is a chick. Sheeeeesh

Some friends of mine have a scary experience from Ecuador, where the police were in on the criminal act

kismetchimera

When I travel to Europe ,I never worry about being mugged or killed for a couples of dollars...Living in the USA, this is something to worry about it..
Just watching the news, I feel sorry for the poor souls working in the convenience's stores, sometimes they lose their lives just for six packs of beer.
I always remenber what the hotel clerk told me when I was in holland with my best friend..i asked if it was safe for 2 ladies walking late at night and he replied.." Madame this is not the USA....

Christina

I don't think I have the same attitudes exactly as SMueller, but to assume he/she made that up is not correct (except for maybe the latter part which sounds like opinion, not fact). Although references are useful when you can't tell, for context.

There was a vaunted crime report a year or so ago that did show some of those crime rates to be higher in many European countries than the US (England as I recall, was especially high). I read it, or most of it, because I get a lot of international data and am a statistician and seem to recall that I felt the methodology was somewhat flawed and not comparable in some ways between countries. I think some of it was self-reporting rather than crime reports, unfortunately. However, there was some basis to it and it was not a disreputable organization (I think it was Dutch).

As for the tolerance being lower, that's opinion, I sure don't know. I live in Wash DC and a lot of petty crime is "tolerated" everywhere because the police have other things to do and have little way to pursue certain people. Ever filed a theft report with the police for small items? They don't get too excited in big cities. I don't really know if pickpocketing rates differ in the major cities, but I agree they do seem to be higher in European capitals.

If so, I think it may have to do with public transportation to some extent, where a lot of it occurs. Eur. capitals have more extensive and frequent buses and metros and people use them more. At major tourist sites, I'm not sure if it differs or not. My gut feeling is that pickpocketing in Eur. cities is higher than in US major cities, but I don't really know. If it occurred a lot on the metro where I live, nobody would know or do anything about it either. I've actually seen more security in Eur. metro systems than in the Wash DC one (in spite of 9/11, it is rare to see security in the cars or even around the stations--there used to be some that rode on various cars for security in 2002 but I haven't seen one in a long time).

I imagine Florida has a bad rep in Europe for tourists as there have been some bad crimes against tourists there. Some accidents, but still I can imagine how they appear in the Eur. press. I believe last year, a maintenance person killed a French tourist on a beach in Florida by accidentally running over her when she was asleep with some big machine.

lillehavfrue

Actually, that beach thing in Florida was a policeman chasing another car in a high speed chase. Against better judgement, the policeman drove on a crowded beach to persue the other car, driving over the French woman who died.

kaudrey

Scottee - you are right, you shouldn't be so concerned. I have never felt "unsafe" in the European cities I have visited, and have never been bothered by anyone. But, I make sure I am very aware of my surroundings and keep my bags close etc. Just be smart and you will be fine.

To counterpoint that, I was in London in January with my sister's college students, and they went to a club, sat down, and one girl went to the restroom and left her purse hanging over her chair. It was gone when she got back. But, I would expect that would be the outcome in almost every city in the world - don't give people opportunities!

As you may guess, the girl felt pretty stupid and agreed that she probably never would have done that at home. She felt really stupid. I felt bad for her.

Karen

smueller

Toupary, sorry if I shattered your idealized view of Europe. I don't assume that a place is perfect just because I have a good time when I go there on vacation. Nor do I limit my vacation destinations to places that "are better" than the US. A friend of mine didn't recently travel to Kenya because she thought it was better than the US, she just wanted to go on a safari. When it comes to many of the things that my wife and I love to do on vacation, I readily concede that Europe is "better" than the US. In every other way (e.g., career opportunities, health care, responsive government, and, yes, freedom from petty crime), however, I prefer to live in the US.

My assertion that people are more likely to the be the victim of certain types of violent crimes in Europe than in the US is based on a variety of sources. A place to start would be the US Justice Department's Bureau of Statistics. They have a direct comparison of England and the US at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crvs.htm. The study is a few years old, but I would rather base my beliefs on a seven-year old study than a twenty-five year old stereotype.