We'll be in Madrid, Toledo, Seville and Grenada in early Oct. We'd like to see some dance, but don't want a tourist rip off place with terrible food and expensive drinks. Since we're not night owls either, it would be nice to see an earlier show. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I have gone to flamenco shows twice at Casa Patas in Madrid. http://www.casapatas.com/ The food is good there, but you don't have to eat there. If you do eat there, you get good seats to the show, which is in a separate room from the restaurant area. It is an intimate space, however, so no seat is really far from the stage.

As far as I can tell from the website (and this matches my memory), shows are at 10:30 on weeknights and 9:00 and midnight on weekends. I have heard that the later show is better when there are two, but if it is more important to you to go to an earlier show, the first show on a weekend would be a way to do that. In general, things are very late in Spain. Most people don't have dinner until around 10 PM in Madrid, and the streets are lively very late at night.

The place for Flamenco is Andalusia and no further north. Try this place...
http://www.tablaolosgallos.com/

I think the Casa de las Memorias would be perfect for you.(The name is close to that anyway) It's right in the Santa Cruz area of Sevilla. I have been to a couple of the other places, and although they, too, were wonderful, I enjoyed this simple one more.

For one thing, it's only about an hour show...leaves you wanting more. They don't sell any drinks or food, and it's in a lovely courtyard...great ambiance. There are only three rows of chairs around a slightly raised platform. The dancing, guitar playing, and singing (if that's the right word for it!) were all amazing.

I totally agree with arindasue about Casa de la Memoria in Seville. Here is a link to reviews on TripAdvisor:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...Andalusia.html

Here is their official website:

http://www.casadelamemoria.es/entrada.htm

ENJOY!

Casa de Memoria and Tablao Los Gallos are very touristy places. As a lover of Gypsy flamenco I would never go there but they are good for tourists who want to sample the flavor and they are good recommendations. The real deal happens late at night in Triana in Seville. You can also see good non touristy performances for free at La Carboneria in Seville. I would recommend one of the caves in the Sacromonte neighborhood in Granada. It is geared towards tourists but it is also the real deal. I'm sure some of them start early say around 9 or so because it is for tourists but the real stuff happens late, the later the better.

I hear you Kleroux, as travelers we would love to see real flamenco at a time that works around us so we can still get up and go in the morning.

It just doesn't happen that way. We would also love to see accomplished performers for a "reasonable" price. That doesn't happen either... unless you happen to be at the right place at the right time and then it will assuredly be late late late....and did I say late?

From what I understand the shows at Sevilla's Casa de la Memoria is typically earlier & usually showcases semi-professionals, (nothing wrong with that!) I will report on this after Oct.

Real flamenco culture just happens late.
This is just the way it is
12 midnight is not even considered late.
And sometimes real flamenco can happen in a tablao.

Re the issue of authentic versus touristy, you will see lots in the threads about this topic. Flamenco is very much like jazz, to see a serious jazz jam session you must know your way around or at the very least do serious homework.

Flamenco artists need to make a living by performing. Yes the repetiitive performing can get stale, especially when performing in front of a bunch of tourists that may have had a few to many..and may not care a hoot about understanding the artform. But sometimes a great show takes place despite that. All of the top performers have gotten start at some point by performing in these touristy places.

<B> So what to do? </B>

As a rule an attentive and appreciative audience will trigger a better show.

1. Start by doing a search here on Fodors under flamenco. You will find many long winded soapbox lectures by yours truly on the importance of understanding the artform in order to enjoy it. I also suggest Tim's flamenco, a free online station for starters. http://www.flamencoradio.net/

2. Read Maribel's guides she addresses flamenco.

3. Read any post by Kimhe he is extremely knowledgeable and up on the current flamenco scene.
He recommends Casa Anselma and El riconcillo in the Triana district of Sevilla. These places are casual clubs/restaurants
not tablaos, but I am goinig to check them out if Kim recommends them. Go late, or you wil not see or hear anything.

<B> Here is a list of the better known places in Madrid</B>. I have copied it from the most recent Vida Flamenca newletter put out by Beth Nesbitt, I would recommend verifying times & so forth before going of course.

Andalusí (Calle Capitán Haya 19. Tel. 915 561 439. Metro Cuzco)
Located in northern Madrid, it is famous for its decoration. The menu has typical dishes from Andalucia and a wide variety of cold tapas accompanied by fino and manzanilla wines. The show starts at 9:30 p.m. and lasts until 6 a.m. The shows vary by month, but usually consist of dancers and singers.


Café de Chinitas (Calle Torija 7. Tel. 915 471 502. Metro Santo Domingo)
This is one of the restaurants with most mythic Flamenco shows in Madrid. It is located in an 18th-century palace in downtown. It offers a menu that mixes the traditional, like the sobrasada al vino tinto, with contemporary dishes. Since its opening in 1970, its shows have presented some of the best Flamenco artists. The shows start after 10:30 p.m. and last as long as the body can endure it. Closed Sundays.

Casa Patas (Calle Cañizares 10. Tel. 913 690 496. Metro Antón Martín)
This Flamenco show is considered one of the best in Madrid. Its kitchen is known for its elaboration of traditional dishes like the chuletas de cordero lechal (suckling lamb steaks), the rabo de toro (bull's tail) and a wide selection of hams and cheeses. Its desserts are homemade as well. I lived at Casa Patas during my last stay in Madrid. Lot's of Flamenco star power to be seen on the walls and sitting next to you. The shows vary by month, but all consist of singers and dancers. They have shows at Monday to Thursday at 22:30 and at 21:00 & 24:00 on the weekends. Closed Sundays.

Corral de la Morería (Calle Morería 17. Tel. 913 658 446. Metro La Latina)
This Flamenco restaurant-stage holds 150 people and has been around for almost 50 years. Besides traditional Spanish dishes, there is a menu with a wide selection of tapas, including Spanish tortilla, seafood and sweet tapas. The shows vary by day. Blanca del Rey, a prestigious Flamenco dancer, is the star of the nights at the Morería. Open every day.


Corral de la Pacheca (Calle Juan Ramón Jiménez 26. Tel. 913 530 100. Metro Cuzco)
Open since 1971, this place is known for its Castilian decor and for the quality and prestige of the artists who have performed here. Its kitchen offers typical dishes that range from the sausages to the salads, seafood and meats. The specialties are the soups and rice dishes. The show usually varies by month and begins after 10:30 p.m. Open every day.


Las Tablas (Plaza de España 9. Tel. 915 420 520. Metro Plaza de España)
Its kitchen is known for its variety of tapas and wines. The Flamenco show starts at 10:30 p.m. and is led by the dancers Marisol Navarro and Antonia Moya. Every Sunday in April, after 1 p.m., everyone there is invited to enjoy some vermouth accompanied by a tapa and get the fun started with live music. Open every day.


Tablao Las Carboneras (Plaza del Conde de Miranda 1. Tel. 915 428 677. Metro Opera)
This is one of the most popular restaurants with a Flamenco stage in Madrid. Its menu has traditional dishes: portions, tapas and meats. It offers different tasting menus as well. The walls inside are full of photographs that tell the history of Flamenco. The shows start at 11 p.m. and vary almost every month. Closed Sundays.


Torres Bermejas (Calle Mesonero Romanos 11. Tel. 915 323 322. Metro Callao)
Founded in 1960 in downtown Madrid. One of the most typical dishes is the paella.Special group rates are available. The show goes from 9:30 p.m. until 2 a.m. Varied Flamenco.

To this I would add thelisting in the DEflamenco website.
In Madrid the hard core places is reportedly "Clan" but again we're talking really late. http://www.deflamenco.com/indexi.jsp

In Madrid I would check out Cardamomo on a Tuesday night.

In Granada I have hard good reports aboiut a peña called La Plateria. Peñas are private flamenco social club or enthusiasts clubs that sometimes allow the general public & visitors and is generally affordable. http://www.laplateria.org.es/

Hope this helps. What are your exact dates for each city?

And as recommended by Maribel in this thread...you can rent some of the Saura movies to get a feel for flamenco..even if you aren't traveling..


http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...needs-help.cfm

Speaking of Sacromonte in Granada, if you have time, walk way back into Sacromonte before dark. You can go up to the outdoor museo which is up there. They have cleaned up and decorated some of the old caves and now show what it might have looked like while occupied.

As you are walking up (or down) the stairs to the museum, you can see several of the actual caves in the side of the hill that are still occupied to this day. Although we were too early in the evening (8:30) to see any of Sacromonte's flamenco shows, I will never forget hearing the plaintive sound of someone sitting outside their home with a guitar, "singing" as they do in the flamenco shows, just for his own enjoyment or practice. It makes for a very cool outing.

kleroux,

we went to the "early" [10.30pm!] show at las chinitas. the food was served at about 10.30 and the show started at about 11pm. you can either have a set meal [which looked quite good] or a drink and tapas which weren't really very good - the meal would be better value.

I am absolutely not a flamenco expert, but what we saw felt pretty authentic - the participants were handsome rather than pretty, the singing was extraordinary, and the dancing high quality. most striking was the dancing of a woman dressed as a man - she was mesmerising. and there was a young man who was very good too.

regards, ann

THANK YOU ALL!!! great suggestions which I will now seek out.
kls

when are you in each city?

I could almost guarantee that you would be able to see a theater performance of some of the best flamenco artists in the world either in Madrid, Sevilla or Granada during your trip in early october. The performances usually starts at 10-11 and draws a predominantly local and knowledgeable crowd. So far I could just recommend Eva Yerbabuenas performance in the Metro in Madrid on the 6th of October; she's one of the absolutely best flamenco dancers today (I think these metro concerts are free):
http://www.flamenco-world.com/notici...na13082009.htm

The events are listed here, and there will be a lot of updates as we come closer to October.
http://www.deflamenco.com/agenda/events.jsp?accion=p

In Sevilla, I've been told a lot of nice things about the performances at Casa de la Memoria; no drinks, no food, just song, guitar and dance. Besides, as Amsdon says, anything can happen in flamenco clubs such as El Rejoneo in C/Betis 31a, but after midninght at least. Casa Anselma in C/ Pagés del Corro 49 is a bit more touristy, but could also be great fun. Go there on Friday at midninght for a weekly event.

Hi Kim, I agree for Kleroux who wants something early, a concert venue is a good way to go. Personally I love concerts anyway(as you know) it's a whole different animal.


As Kim says try to see Eva Yerbabuena. If it does turn out to be free you better think to get there really early. What a bargain that is!

Have you thought of looking out for one of the many festivals in Spain? You'll be in time to catch the last of the summer Ferias. There's an enormous one in Fuengirola which lasts for several days, around 6-12th. You're sure to see some good Flamenco there in one of the casetas, and in the theatre at the end of the Feria Ground. If you get there, look out for Juan Antonio Perez and the group Azabache. Wonderful! Here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfiVkBCnW1Q
If you can get to the Malaga area, this site gives a list of Flamenco events happening http://www.flamenka.com/html/agenda/...tubre2009.html . On the same site is a link which gives names and addresses of all the Peñas in the area. You could google for maps etc. Whichever area you finish up in, check out the Peñas before you set out on your travels. You'll see more authentic Flamenco there. Some tourists shows are pretty good but many are NOT.
Enjoy
http://www.flamencoholidays.com

In Madrid, every night at 10-10.30 at Cardamomo. Traditionally a flamenco bar, now recently (less than a year ago) turned into a tablao. No dining, the crowd mostly flamenco artists and aficionados. Just off Plaza Santa Ana: http://www.cardamomo.es/

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