ivant2

I'm coming to Vienna October 4 (or 3 if needed) and leave on October 13. I will be going to Salburg Oct 6 and staying overnight

So far I have a rough itinerary going

Could you provide some feedback? Thanks

Oct 4 - arrival

st stephen's cathedral

winter palace of prince eugene

explore streets, such as

blutgasse

backestrasse

sonnefelsgasse

schonlaternagasse

neuer markt

maybe check out stadtpark (?)

Oct 5

hofburg complex ( imperial apartments + sisi miseum)

volksgartn

austrian national library

bankgasse

kohlmarkt

graben

naglergasse

rathaus

Oct 6

karlskirshce

Majolikahaus von Otto Wagner

maria-theresien platz

kunsthisotirsches mueseum OR Leopold museum

spittelberg

sankt ulricsh platz

Oct 9

albertina (in the morning - is this a small museum?)

molker bastei

freyung

votivkirche

lichtenstein garden palace 3-4

lichtenstein city palace 5-6

*This day may be too packed*?

Oct 10

schonbrunn palace - not sure if a whole day is required

Oct 11

belvedere palace- not sure if whole day is required

Oct 12

kunst haus wien

hudertwasser house

vienna opera (tour)

+ anything else?

Any suggestions? Too packed? Not enough on some days? Should I increase the number of days from 7 to 8?

ivant2

Sorry, correction, going to Salzburg Oct 7, staying overnight.

fourfortravel

October 4 seems a little lean, unless you plan to thoroughly enjoy every square meter of Stephansdom, visit the crypt and climb the tower; and study every painting and decoration in the Winter Palace. The remainder of your itinerary includes a bunch of streets that may have been historically significant but won't take much of your time.

October 5 looks fine. There is nothing to explore on Maria-Theresien Platz; it is the space between the Art History and the Natural History museums. Kohlmarkt and Graben are touristy shopping streets.

October 9 may be a little full. The Albertina is of moderate size, with four or five galleries and the Habsburg staterooms. Depending on how intently you study everything, a visit could last the morning.

The better part of a day can be devoted to Schönbrun if you take the long tour of the palace and tour the carriage museum, walk and explore the gardens, and venture to the Gloriette. Getting to and from the palace from the Inner Stadt takes about 30 minutes.

There are several exhibits closed at Belvedere at the moment, which could impact the length of your visit.

annhig

I wouldn't dream of contradicting Four4 in respect of the above so I won't.

but I can see a few omissions -

the Prater [nice for an evening's stroll]

a visit to at last one Heurige [wine tavern, I'm sure that Four4 can recommend a few if you are interested], or

a tour/visit to the opera [either or both of them] and/or the Musikverein or any other musical event.

we spent a whole morning at the Belvedere then got the tram from a nearby stop and then the bus to the top of the Kahlenberg - very nice on a clear day.

when we were there a few years ago, we got a combined "sissi" ticket which got us into the Hofburg and the whole tour [they have different levels] of the Schoenbrunn without having to queue there; we bought it at the Hofburg where the queues were very short which was just as well as the queues at the Schoenbrunn were awful. It also gives you free access to the furniture depository which was a lot of fun to see too.

fourfortravel

annhig, excellent additions! The Wiener WiesenFest (Vienna's version of Oktoberfest) is at Prater through 11 October and is great fun even if you don't wear Trachten or drink beer. Thankfully we do both, so we have even more fun!

ivant2

Thank you for the replies.

Yes, I read that Graben and Kohlmarkt are touristy...should they be skipped?

fourfortravel: is there anything I could add Oct 4 and 5? I figured Oct 4 might be a little lean, but it's an arrival day

Any interesting streets/squares etc I am missing?

So the Belvedere may not take the whole day then?


annhig: I have actually included a tour of the Opera on my last day... or do you mean I should attend a performance?

ivant2

Oh, and what about the Melk Abbey... is it worth to add an extra day for that? I am currently in Prague Sept 26-Oct 3. Arriving in Vienna on the 4th... thinking of taking away a day from Prague.

fourfortravel

ivant2, Graben, Kartnerstraße, and Kohlmarkt are the touristy shopping streets of the Inner Stadt. The approach to Hofburg from Kohlmarkt (and perhaps a peek at Demel's window displays) is photo-worthy, but really, if you live in or near a city with major chains (everything from H&M to Chanel) and aren't into shopping, your added value may not be all that high. To me there is more to Vienna than a mostly-chain shopping street. Even the famed Julius-Meinl is little more than overpriced goodies from around the world, though I do confess to enjoying their tuna-baguette as a take-away when I'm out and about in the Inner Stadt.

If you are into markets, there is the tourist-favorite Naschmarkt, but also the Karmelitermarkt and Brunnenmarkt. The latter two markets are more where the "locals" shop.

Not too far from Belvedere is the Military History Museum, which has an extremely well done permanent exhibit on WWI. You could combine that with a visit to Naschmarkt and end with coffee and a torte at Cafe Schwarzenberg.

Melk Abbey is certainly a worthwhile day trip from Vienna. And the autumn colors could be quite beautiful during your travel to and from.

When you're near Volksgarten and Rathaus, perhaps take a look at Parliament. The building is grand. And don't discount a look at the Burggarten; in autumn the grounds are lovely.

annhig adds the excellent idea of heading into the vineyards on a beautiful day. Doing so is very easy; from the terminus of the U4 at Heiligenstadt, take the 38A bus to either Kahlenberg (or even Leopoldsberg if the bus is running) for beautiful views of the city and the vineyards, then walk down along the marked trails into Grinzing for a small meal at a heuriger (wine tavern). From there catch the 38 tram back into the Inner Stadt. Some of the grapes up there have been cultivated since the 12th century, and the experience is uniquely Viennese.

nytraveler

Well you've missed the Spanish Riding School performance by the Lippizans, which IHO is one of the top highlights of Vienna (but I'm a horse person). What they can do is astounding.

And agree you should not miss visiting Melk. Be sure to take the boat ride in one direction.

Don't see your plan for Salzburg - but if you want a Sound of Music tour that will leave you little time for anything else. And obviously that depends on the weather.

What we liked most:

Hohensalzburg fortress above the city - access by mini-train from main square (http://www.salzburg-burgen.at)
Mozart Museum
Exploring the Old Town (have dinner in the Stiffskeller)
Mirabell Palace

There are several other castles and palaces nearby but these are actually right in/over the town

annhig

annhig: I have actually included a tour of the Opera on my last day... or do you mean I should attend a performance?>>

sorry, missed that.

I think that you would be lucky at this late juncture to get tickets to the Staatsoper but you might be lucky with the Volksoper, depending what's on. no harm in looking.

Four4 describes almost exactly what we did on our day in the vineyards, only we got a tram from near the Belvedere then the bus from the U4 terminus, eventually ending up at the Heurige near the Beethoven Summer house:

http://www.pfarrplatz.at/en/beethove...ovenhouse.html

we had a drink there and then found another one nearby where we had a drink and something to eat, I think [or was it the other way round?] and eventually rolled back into town several hours later having visited an indeterminate no of similar establishments.

certainly one of the best days we had in Vienna [or possibly anywhere!]

even if you don't wear Trachten or drink beer. Thankfully we do both, so we have even more fun! >>

picture please, four4!!

ivant2

Thank you. I'm not into chain shopping or touristy streets, just thought there might be something of architectural interest on those streets. I don't have anything after the Hofburg / national library planned then... Any other streets/walks I could do after those sights? perhaps add parliament as you suggested? Or maybe Prater as has been suggested?

The market is definitely something I had in mind. Do you have any suggestions for shopping that's not chain shopping... Looking more for original gifts, like stationery or accessories..handmade stuff is good too.

Is the hietzing neighborhood around schonbrunn worth a visit? I like art nouveau architecture and there seem to be a lot of attractive buildings in that area

sandralist

I tought that seeing every square inch of the Belvedere Winter Palace was a wonderful use of my time. It remains among the highlights of my visit to Vienna. At that time they were also having a wonderful major art exhibit about the Hagenbund artists, which also consumed an hour of my time, but I visited the Lower Belvedere in the morning (I especially enjoyed the medieval collection), then at lunch, and then returned to visit the Upper Belvedere.

Two of the least interesting "sights" for me in Vienna were the Albertina interior (apart from a special exhibit of modern sculpture) and the tour of the opera house. I have enjoyed opera house and theater tours in other European cities, but thought the one if Vienna was just big and dull -- plus it felt like the wait to get was longer than the tour. The exterior of both the Albertina and the opera house were rewarding to see, but the interiors were not of much interest in my book (compared with, say, an interior like the library, which is fantastic).

If you are going to the Otto Wagner Pavillion, I found it highly rewarding to visit the double set of train station kiosks he designed that are nearby (and especially enjoyed a visit to the still functioning cafe in the basement of one of them).

More subjective reactions: I have to confess that the Schoenbrunn and the Glorietta did absolutely nothing for me, and I found the palace interior crashingly dull and even ugly compared with the spectacular Belvedere. I am repelled by animal entertainments of every description and give the stallions and the carriage rides a very very wide miss. I was there November, and skipped the Prater entirely due to reasons of weather, likewise heading out to the wineries at the periphery.

I might advise pushing the St Stephensdom and the immediate area further into your stay, because it so touristy and chain-store around there you might take an instant dislike to Vienna if you start out there first. The most beautiul cafe interior I saw was Cafe Landtmann (but there may be others I didn't visit). You need a reservation to get one of the best seats. I also liked there cakes the best.

It is worth sticking your head into some of the historic hotel lobbies. I also thnk it is worth skipping real meals to eat cake, cake ane more cake in Vienna (if you like cake!) For friends, I bought them baked treats from Demel like cat's tongues.

sandralist

Regarding Four4travel's suggestion of Cafe Schwarzenberg, if you go on a Sunday night, they have old fashioned Viennese cafe music live, piano playing and songs, and for some reason it is not dreadfully touristy but just sort of fascinating. The food there is fine, and they have some different tortes beyond chocolate or apple streudel that are worth sampling. They have nice wine there too.

If you haven't done this already, and if you are interested in art and history, you should check out what exhibits will be on during your visit. Several of the independent art exhibits I saw were of much greater interest to me some of the permanent collections in the smaller museums. For me, the primary reason to go to Vienna was its art history museum, one of the world's greatest. I was also quite interested to visit the Leopold Museum, but ended up having a lot of criticisms of it (never mind -- see for yourself if you are interested!) -- but I would not make them an either-or if you have an interest in art museums.

I think once you are Vienna for two days or so you will have good sense of what you find a rewarding use of your time. I did also find it worthwhile to get out of the "center", inside the ring, into the less fancy parts of the city because the center is so stagey (historically designed to be that) but if you are enjoying the famous sights, they are time consuming, so you should go with what you are enjoying.

sandralist

http://vivamost.com/cms/images/les-l...hat-vienna.jpg

fourfortravel

sandralist, it is funny that you admire Cafe Landtmann. It is one of the four (five?) cafes that serve "chain" pastries (from the same as those served at Hofburg, Schönbrunn, Cafe Mozart and a few others), AND they charge for Viennese tap water! I succumbed to the majority vote a few months ago for a cafe visit there, and the tab for four melange and four torte reached nearly €50. Outrageous.

K.u.K. Gerstner, one of the former Royal and Imperial Zuckerbäcker ("sugar bakeries") recently opened a new cafe and store in one of the city palaces across from the Opera House, has captured my attention. I dropped in before Easter and came away with an embarrassingly large number of goodies for the family Easter basket. Good thing we hike in the vineyards is all I'll add.

ivant2, there is a rather well-prepared do-it-yourself art nouveau walk about Vienna that you might enjoy. http://www.vienna-unwrapped.com/art-nouveau-walk/

As for the horses and performances at the Spanish Riding School, it is a matter of preference. You really do have to love horses to be enthralled with the performances.

If you decide on the Opera tour, taking the tour in a language other than English may provide you with a better experience. Our daughter and I took the tour on a summer (high tourist density) day, and opted for the German-language tour of 12 persons versus the +25 tour of English-language speakers, and we think that made a difference.

As for shopping and traditional souvenirs, Vienna is home to Manner, the wafer cookies; the Sacher Torte; and to Julius Meinl coffee. The smaller parfumeries may carry delicate blends from the Imperial days, too. Regional products include pumpkin seed oil (from Steiermark); a good wine from Niederösterreich (Lower Austria) or Burgenland; or perhaps the marzipan-filled chocolate treats called Mozart Kugeln. Austria is also home to Pez candies, should you have a young person on your gift-giving list. Snow globes were invented in Austria; it is possible to tour the Snowglobe Museum that is owned and operated by the family. http://www.viennasnowglobe.at At the markets you will find locally produced items; depending on your travel routes, many of these could make great gifts (Staud's preserves come to mind...). Paper items are from the other former Imperial provinces like Czech Republic, though.

sandralist

ivant2,

Sorry for a confusion in my post. I didn't mean to type "winter" in referring to the Belvedere. I was saying instead that I found the upper and lower levels of the Belvedere palace worth nearly a full day's visit.

Four4Travel,

I stand by my recommendation of the Cafe Landtmann both for its well-preserved appearance and for the taste of its pastries. The pastries at the Gloritette were also recommended to me by a resident. Also recommended to me by a resdient were the pastries of Aida, but I didn't care for them as much, but the point is that pastry is an industry in Vienna, and I am not sure an objection to "chain" holds. Also, I don't know what to say about price. Two of my other great pastry experiences in Vienna were the Hotel Imperial and Sluka, neither of which are cheap. I routintely pay for water in Italy, so it isn't a surprise to me when someone charges for it. But if you want to make different recommendations, no doubt they would be appreciated, but I would go for wonderful over cheap.

On a different note, I would say that people who really love horses tend to stay away from forced performances, etc.

fourfortravel

sandralist, with horses, and pastries, it is a matter of preference. Our daughter has been riding for 9 years, and loves, loves, loves to see the Lippizaners any chance she has (here in Vienna and out at the Piber farm.) These are not activities for everyone, I concur.

I, personally, much prefer a smaller-bakery produced torte schnitten and a Wiener Melange for €5 at a winsome cafe outside the Inner Stadt than a chain-produced cut served up by pretentious wait staff at twice or thrice the price just because I am "in Vienna." There is a reason more than 80% of Viennese do not indulge in (Inner Stadt) cafes. And, no one should pay for alpine tap water in Vienna. Ever.

sandralist

(Also Four4Travel, I am puzzled at the implied notion that if the Gerstner catering group owns a place it is somehow less of a chain that the imperial bakery consortium that supplies Landtmann. Demel has been owned by a Viennese industrial food corporation for more than 10 years now. If you prefer other chain cafes to Landtmann, fine, but you're still recommending places owned by large corporations).

sandralist

we were posting at the same time. Gerstner is huge, it is not a smaller bakery. They cater to opera and other big tourist attractions. I think you just don't like Landtmann. So be it. I found most service in Vienna pretentious -- and I wasn't staying in the center. I found Vienna pretentious --- I think that is the historic culture! And I find dirndls and liederhosen truly unattractive. So chalk that up to personal preference too, I guess.

sandralist

this is Gerstner. It is a massive operation

http://www.gerstner.at/en/konditorei/geschichte.html