Vienna-Cesky Krumlov-Prague-Vienna for 7 days
Mar 21st, 2015, 10:00 AM
#24
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Train tickets in the CR are fairly cheap. Even going from Vienna to Prague or something like that is not going to cost that much, although I don't know what your ideas are of expensive. Don't even consider renting a car to do what you want to do, where do you think you'll park it in a big city?
And you do not have to go to the touristy Cesky Krumlov.
And you do not have to go to the touristy Cesky Krumlov.
Mar 21st, 2015, 12:17 PM
#25
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That is a mistake RailEurope is not a source for point-to-point tickets>
Well it is a source but often but not always sells full-fare tickets only at a mark-up usually so don't get the discounted tickets you can online often - but in some countries like Italy for TrenoItalia tickets they can be the cheapest possible. So you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater in this case - needs to be qualified - and RE is indeed a source for point to point tickets - just often not the cheapest one.
For lots of great info on European trains in general - check www.seat61.com - great info for discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. In old Eastern Europe (or really central Europe) first class on many trains can be well worth the extra price IME and of others.
Well it is a source but often but not always sells full-fare tickets only at a mark-up usually so don't get the discounted tickets you can online often - but in some countries like Italy for TrenoItalia tickets they can be the cheapest possible. So you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater in this case - needs to be qualified - and RE is indeed a source for point to point tickets - just often not the cheapest one.
For lots of great info on European trains in general - check www.seat61.com - great info for discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. In old Eastern Europe (or really central Europe) first class on many trains can be well worth the extra price IME and of others.
Mar 21st, 2015, 06:18 PM
#27
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Started looking at Seat61 which points you to the websites of the actual train lines Czech and Austrian train lines.
A rough estimate of the fares, and they seem to vary a lot, for such a trip as I had planned and using shuttles to get to CK would have probably come in at about 300-350 Euros.
An Opel can be rented for a week for 266 Euros, a BMW for a little more, gas would add on maybe 100 Euros, not sure about tolls. I would decline insurance as it's covered by my CC.
The train fares, to keep them low would require having an exact reservation time; if you miss or have to change a booking, or want a flexible booking the cost would go up, significantly.
So in terms of cost I'd say both methods are equal. In terms of convenience, with a car , you can leave when you want and make stops along the way. With a train you don't have to deal with parking, and can sleep while being transported.
In my estimation both have advantages and disadvantages. I didn't start out posting intending to argue the benefits of using a car, and, yes, I'm playing a little bit of devils advocate.
However, in assessing the situation, I think it's time to drop the old mantra of 'when in Europe, going to different big cities, don't even consider using a car.'
Yes, don't use a car if you must drive up to your hotel and park your car outside, but, for someone who doesn't mind doing it this way, a car can be used to get from city to city by parking in the outskirts somewhere near a train stop. People do that when coming to NYC, all the time, and I'm pretty sure it can be done for European cities, as well. I'll have to try it sometime.
That being said , the complexion of my trip has changed somewhat. I'll start a new post. Thanks for all the feedback, it's really helping me a lot.
A rough estimate of the fares, and they seem to vary a lot, for such a trip as I had planned and using shuttles to get to CK would have probably come in at about 300-350 Euros.
An Opel can be rented for a week for 266 Euros, a BMW for a little more, gas would add on maybe 100 Euros, not sure about tolls. I would decline insurance as it's covered by my CC.
The train fares, to keep them low would require having an exact reservation time; if you miss or have to change a booking, or want a flexible booking the cost would go up, significantly.
So in terms of cost I'd say both methods are equal. In terms of convenience, with a car , you can leave when you want and make stops along the way. With a train you don't have to deal with parking, and can sleep while being transported.
In my estimation both have advantages and disadvantages. I didn't start out posting intending to argue the benefits of using a car, and, yes, I'm playing a little bit of devils advocate.
However, in assessing the situation, I think it's time to drop the old mantra of 'when in Europe, going to different big cities, don't even consider using a car.'
Yes, don't use a car if you must drive up to your hotel and park your car outside, but, for someone who doesn't mind doing it this way, a car can be used to get from city to city by parking in the outskirts somewhere near a train stop. People do that when coming to NYC, all the time, and I'm pretty sure it can be done for European cities, as well. I'll have to try it sometime.
That being said , the complexion of my trip has changed somewhat. I'll start a new post. Thanks for all the feedback, it's really helping me a lot.
Mar 21st, 2015, 07:50 PM
#28
>>A rough estimate of the fares, and they seem to vary a lot, for such a trip as I had planned and using shuttles to get to CK would have probably come in at about 300-350 Euros. <<
>>An Opel can be rented for a week for 266 Euros, a BMW for a little more<<
>>So in terms of cost I'd say both methods are equal.<<
No, they aren't equal. You need to factor in the (VERY) expensive petrol. Tolls. Parking. And the inconvenience of having a car in most of those cities, or schlepping back and forth to some remote P&Rs . . .
But it sounds like you've given up on this plan -- or it was changed on you.
>>An Opel can be rented for a week for 266 Euros, a BMW for a little more<<
>>So in terms of cost I'd say both methods are equal.<<
No, they aren't equal. You need to factor in the (VERY) expensive petrol. Tolls. Parking. And the inconvenience of having a car in most of those cities, or schlepping back and forth to some remote P&Rs . . .
But it sounds like you've given up on this plan -- or it was changed on you.
Mar 22nd, 2015, 08:44 AM
#31
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It's academic now that I've changed my itinerary and no longer have the need to get up to CK and Prague on my arrival day, and can take things a little more leisurely.
(see my new post with my new improved itinerary
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-no-car.cfm?9.)
Seriously though, I was surprised at how cheap it is to rent a car in Europe. Even if I took the insurance. However, it's only cheap if you take it for a week. The price for a few days is almost the same. I figured with the efficient gas mileage of a manual car and the dollar catching up to the Euro, gas costs wouldn't have been bad, at all. I also assume gas prices have dropped there, as they have here?
Again the only obstacle is parking. I would have liked to try out the P&R near metro station solution. No matter how nice the trains are, there's nothing like the convenience and comfort of riding in your own car (spoken like a true american, LOL)
(see my new post with my new improved itinerary
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-no-car.cfm?9.)
Seriously though, I was surprised at how cheap it is to rent a car in Europe. Even if I took the insurance. However, it's only cheap if you take it for a week. The price for a few days is almost the same. I figured with the efficient gas mileage of a manual car and the dollar catching up to the Euro, gas costs wouldn't have been bad, at all. I also assume gas prices have dropped there, as they have here?
Again the only obstacle is parking. I would have liked to try out the P&R near metro station solution. No matter how nice the trains are, there's nothing like the convenience and comfort of riding in your own car (spoken like a true american, LOL)
Mar 22nd, 2015, 09:58 AM
#32
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"No matter how nice the trains are, there's nothing like the convenience and comfort of riding in your own car (spoken like a true american, LOL)"
OK, renting one is an non-issue for you now, and this is a whole other topic and issue, but while making a joke of it, I think you do believe that "true Americans" would always prefer their own car.
The problem is, because we were such a big open country with a "Big" automotive industry at the time, our government built roads instead of good train and bus systems. Cars were promoted as a way of life, so like it or not, Americans had/have no choice.
I take a bit of exception to it being a "true American" thing, because, for me, having to own, maintain and drive a car is not a comfort. It is a nuisance and expense that I am forced to have because we don't have great public transportation here. It is a big PIA. I got rid of my car when I lived in Germany and have thought of moving to NYC so I could ditch the car. I moved to the city so I don't have to use it as much. Well, now that I think about it, I guess if my anti-car attitude makes me not a "true" American, I am OK with that.
OK, renting one is an non-issue for you now, and this is a whole other topic and issue, but while making a joke of it, I think you do believe that "true Americans" would always prefer their own car.
The problem is, because we were such a big open country with a "Big" automotive industry at the time, our government built roads instead of good train and bus systems. Cars were promoted as a way of life, so like it or not, Americans had/have no choice.
I take a bit of exception to it being a "true American" thing, because, for me, having to own, maintain and drive a car is not a comfort. It is a nuisance and expense that I am forced to have because we don't have great public transportation here. It is a big PIA. I got rid of my car when I lived in Germany and have thought of moving to NYC so I could ditch the car. I moved to the city so I don't have to use it as much. Well, now that I think about it, I guess if my anti-car attitude makes me not a "true" American, I am OK with that.
Mar 22nd, 2015, 11:49 AM
#34
>> I figured with the efficient gas mileage of a manual car and the dollar catching up to the Euro, gas costs wouldn't have been bad, at all. I also assume gas prices have dropped there, as they have here?<<
Currently the price of petrol in say Austria is about €1.85 per liter. 1 US Gallon = 3.79 liters - so petrol costs €7.01 per US gallon (close to $8)
Currently the price of petrol in say Austria is about €1.85 per liter. 1 US Gallon = 3.79 liters - so petrol costs €7.01 per US gallon (close to $8)
Mar 22nd, 2015, 03:47 PM
#35
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Petro prices may have dropped but like janis points out are now only about 2-3 times U.S. prices not say 4 like before the plune of the Euro. Add this to often predatorily steep autobahn tolls, cost of parking in cities - up to $20-30 a day often.
Mar 22nd, 2015, 04:13 PM
#36
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I was making fun of myself using a common stereotype, Americans shunning public transportation, driving solo in their gas-guzzling SUVs, the environment be damned. I guess you didn't get the joke.
I came here for travel advice not debate.
Let's consider this thread over.
Thanks.
I came here for travel advice not debate.
Let's consider this thread over.
Thanks.
Mar 22nd, 2015, 06:57 PM
#37
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I continue, because it is not a joke, and not funny. It is an ugly stereotype, even more so now that you add the bit about the environment be damned, and many people would not like to be included in that. If you ask only for travel advice, that is what you will get. When you add insults, do not expect it to be ignored.
Very unfortunately, it is your attitude that propagates the example of the stereotype because you are the one who says there is nothing like the convenience of your own car, and you are the one who kept insisting on driving even when others here were pointing out good reasons not to. You are the one who continued to debate on the side of driving, no matter what excellent, thought out, advice you received from other, more experienced travelers, indicated it was not the best choice.
Very unfortunately, it is your attitude that propagates the example of the stereotype because you are the one who says there is nothing like the convenience of your own car, and you are the one who kept insisting on driving even when others here were pointing out good reasons not to. You are the one who continued to debate on the side of driving, no matter what excellent, thought out, advice you received from other, more experienced travelers, indicated it was not the best choice.
