jent103

A friend and I are planning a trip to Italy for July 2010 (has to be July due to work restrictions on her part; per StCirq's excellent suggestion, I plan to eat plenty of gelato to stay cool and hope to be on too much of a sugar/Italy high to care about the crowds). I can't even look at flight itineraries yet, but I want to be ready to go when I can so I can look for the best deals and get the accommodations we want. We'll have either 11 or 12 days (I'm trying to get 12 out of her, but she'll likely be moving that month as well, so we'll see). We've spent limited time in Italy; a few days in Florence with a trip to Pisa, and a day and a half or so in Rome for both of us. I've been to Venice for a few... hours. Neither of us have a great desire to return to Florence on this trip. My interests include history, architecture (just looking at it, not professionally), photography, gelato and seeing pretty places. Her interests include gelato and happily going wherever I tell her, generally speaking (seriously, she's a dream travel companion for a planner like myself). We're both excited about a little (moderate) hiking in the Cinque Terre.

So, all that said: any tweaks/suggestions/warnings about the following? It's subject to change based on airfare deals, but this is my idea so far.

<i>Day 1:</i> Leave USA (from either Nashville or Memphis)
<i>Day 2:</i> Arrive in Venice (thought to start here to avoid very early morning departures to US, but also very open to doing the same itinerary in reverse). Spend whatever is left of the day wandering, eating gelato and taking pictures.
<i>Day 3:</i> Venice. Some combination of San Marco, Doge's Palace, Murano, more wandering and more gelato.
<i>Day 4:</i> Train to Cinque Terre. (Thoughts on which town to stay in would be greatly appreciated!)
<i>Days 5 & 6:</i> Hike, take pictures, eat gelato and look at beautiful things in CT.
<i>Day 7:</i> Train to Rome.
<i>Days 8-10/11:</i> Rome. Things on my list so far: Vatican City (planning to spend most of a full day here - really want to do the Scavi tour), Forum/Colisseum, Pantheon, Villa Borghese/gardens, catacombs, other things I'm sure I haven't written down yet. My main question for Rome is how much will we want that extra day? We tend to travel at a pretty quick pace compared to many Fodorites, but at the same time I want to have enough time to rest and just enjoy myself too. I thought if we had all four full days in Rome and for some reason thought we were done after three, we would take a day trip, maybe to Orvieto.
<i>Day 11 or 12:</i> Head home from Rome.

Any itinerary suggestions are much appreciated! As are lodging suggestions - I've been collecting recommendations from other threads, but any you'd care to throw out here would be great. I'm hoping to stay under or around 100&euro;/night for a twin or double, which doesn't seem to be too far off from what I can tell (though perhaps difficult in Venice). Mainly just want clean, centrally located, private bath, enough space to turn around in. TV and breakfast would be nice but not necessary.

Ian

Re Rome:

IMHO . . . Treat the day you arrive as a throw away for general wandering your neighborhood. The Vatican deserves a day. Ancient Roma + wandering Pantheon, Navona area deserves a day. One day for Borghese & area etc. And probably one more day for shopping/wandering/other sites. Others will say you need XX days but 4 + arrival would give you a good visit. If you love it go back.

Ian

jent103

Ian - thanks! You pretty much said what I was thinking, so I'm glad to know it's a sane thought. My one time in Rome I did love it immediately and knew I wanted to go back, but that was ten years ago in December. So I'm really curious as to how I'll feel about it on this trip.

Peter_S_Aus

Arriving in Venice is a good idea - it is the most magic of arrivals. You might consider giving yourself more than two nights there, as San Marco, Doge Palace and Murano would be a very busy day. The Doge Palace alone would be a couple of hours. Ian is right - four days plus the arrival day in both Rome and Venice would be sensible, the only problem being that in that amount of time, you'll fall in love with those places and be sad when you leave.

You might consider visiting just Venice and Rome, and giving yourself a bit more time and less travelling. We spent six nights in Venice two years ago, and loved it so much that we went back last Christmas for nine weeks. Click on my name, and you'd see what I thought of Venice. Cheers, and enjoy the gelato.

suz123nj

Taking train to cinque terre will be an all day affair. Thre are no direct trains you must change in Florence. Its about 2.5 -3 hours Florence then change trains for La Spezia. and another 2.5 hours. Then Change trains again for a short ride for Cinque Terre- to specific town. If you start at aobut 10Am you will arrivve bout 6Pm. All have charm but we like Vernazza.

jent103

Thanks, Peter! I'm not laboring under any delusions that we'll be able to fit all of that into one day in Venice; I figured we'd see what we end up doing on our arrival day and then decide what to do on day 3. St Mark's and the Doge's Palace are higher up on my list than Murano.

It would be great to be able to spend more time everywhere! But we're both really excited about Cinque Terre, and Rome is a must. I don't get to travel internationally all that often, so for this trip I want to see what I can (within reason). If I end up loving Venice as much as you do, I'm sure I'll make it back at some point. (Your trip report is one of the links I have saved for research!) That's a great point about arriving in Venice - I'm really excited for my friend to see it.

jent103

suz123nj - sorry, didn't see your post before I posted! I was afraid of that, from looking at the Trenitalia timetables, but that's one reason I left that whole day for travel. We're good train riders, and I plan to pack light for once! Did you find Vernazza to be crowded? I've been reading marigross's trip report and it made me a little wary of staying there, due to all the crowds. I may be paranoid, though, since we'd be there in July and I figured everything would already be pretty crowded.

dutyfree

Just remember that it gets hot in Italy in July and August so plan on Vernazza being crowded during the day,hot and very little places with A/C.

Ian

jent103

I am following marigross's report too & after her descriptions of Vernazza, it has been probably x'd off of my list or at least moved way down. The more we travel, the more irritating the travel hoards become. We have visited some of the world's busiest travel destinations & I often walk away wondering if I really enjoyed it or if I just convinced myself that I enjoyed it. I saw a lot of unhappy people in the Vatican museum last month. fwiw . . .

Ian

macdogmom

We did the trip from Cinque Terre to Venice. Left CT around 11 and got to Venice around 5 or 6. Had to change trips in La Spezia and then Florence--pretty easy trip.

In CT we stayed in Manarola and we loved the place we stayed in. La Torreta is located at the top of the town and a wonderful spot. It is run by Gabrielle, one of the nicest people we met on our trip. All the rooms have great views some with very nice terraces. Each morning we had a big breakfast and then later after all our hiking, a happy hour that was full of delicious appetizers and never ending wine or prosecco. Really great place and Manarola is a much quieter, calmer town than Vernazza. And we loved Trattoria Billy's-a restaurant in Manarola.

marigross

After seeing the crowds in June I would not even consider the Cinque Terre in July or August. To me, as Ian stated above, the experience was not worth the effort of getting there and moving around.

If I would redo my trip, I would completely scratch the 5T out and add those two days to other destinations, most likely Venice.

In your case, have you considered spending those two days in Padua, Perugia, Bologna, Orvieto or Volterra? I would choose those over the 5T and they would not be as big a detour between Venice and Rome.

BTW, we had a great flight out of Venice at noon so there are always alternatives to the early AM departures. I love to leave Italy with the taste of Venice still in mouth.

JulieVikmanis

As you read about what to do in Venice, please consider Burano as a substitute for Murano. It is so colorful and just fun. Unless you're absolutely into glass and don't mind lots of hawkers, I'd pick Burano over Murano every time.

francegirl

I think your time in Venice and Rome needs to be a little longer. And Venice is so magical (albeit the crowds will be awful in July) that a day trip to Murano would be very touristy. You'll be pushed from one glass-blowing shop to another, with souvenir shops between. Although Burano is better, it's going to be sort of the same, except substitute lace for the glass. With limited time, I'd stay in Venice proper, there's so much to see. I agree w. Marigross about the towns she suggests - we stayed in Orvieto for several days and it was wonderful and beautiful. So is Volterra, but actually you can get there easily from Florence by bus. Bologna is a BIG city, so think about that. It's too bad to have to skip the Cinque Terre, so if you don't want to and you're not invested in Florence, why not go to Venice, Rome and the Cinque Terre and skip Tuscany this time?? You should spend at least 3 full days in each place, I think. That would give you 3 traveling days. Bon voyage!

jent103

Wow - thanks, everyone, for all the input! It's incredibly helpful. Regarding Murano - it was never a must-do for me, and with all your thoughts, I'm leaning toward not doing it. I agree that there's plenty to see in Venice itself.

Regarding the CT - that's a conundrum. I've wanted to visit there for years now (my university has a study abroad program in Florence, and every last one of my friends who participated came back raving about CT). But the crowds are definitely something to consider. I was thinking about trying to do most of our hiking/sightseeing earlier in the morning or later in the afternoon, with some "siesta time" during what I figured would be the most crowded parts of the day. Would that help at all?

marigross - that's great to know about your Venice flight! I'll definitely take a look at schedules once they're posted. I go back and forth on whether I'd rather do Venice or Rome first, but honestly it'll probably come down to flight schedules and prices. And macdogmom, thanks so much for the recommendation! I'll check out that hotel.

dwdvagamundo

Concur with those who urge you to skip the CT and increase the time in Venice. Of course, Venice will probably be mobbed with tourists at that time of year, too, but it will be worth it. It is one of the really great cities of the world, and you will be sorry to have to leave with only one day there.

A couple of years ago we stayed at the Hotel Falier on San Pantalon (Dorsoduro) in Venice. It was a good, quiet hotel with comfortable beds and a reasonable price in a quiet part of Venice. It is a convenient walk to the train station and to the vaporetto stop.

Of the islands in the lagoon, our favorite is Torcello. It was where the first settlers in Venice lived, and one of the oldest churches in Italy with a really beautiful mosaic. There are a couple of good restaurants, and not many people visit it. When you get tired of the crowds around San Marco and the Rio Alto, it makes a good respite.

kfusto

The CT was on my list for years (18 trips to Italy over 30 years) and I finally went to Vernazza in July of 2005. I was SOOOO disappointed - it was filled with mobs of American tourists, public bathrooms were just filthy, coffee and such was outrageously priced and there were more Rick Steeves guidebooks on table than at my local neighborhood Barnes and Noble. .

We have come in from Rapallo for the day. We stayed a hour, got on the next train and spent a delightful afternoon in Le Spezie.

I was so very disappointed - yes, the scenery was stunning but it was one of worst experiences in Italy over many years of visiting.

Last fall we visited Bologna for a few days and were just delighted by the lack of tourists. These days, it is just my preference to have a more authentic experience and we gravitate towards areas where we can do so.

kfusto

sorry for the many typos!

marigross

kfusto, aside from the 18 trips to Italy, I could have written your post.

Dayle

jent,

Here's a thought for you....how about visiting Venice, then stopping somewhere in the countryside in Tuscany or Umbria, maybe Le Marche? Just pick a small town with a train station nearby, rent a car for 3 days, and enjoy the countryside! I promise this will be MUCH more enjoyable than the CT in summer. Plus it would be a nice alternative break in the schedule from the busy cities of Venice and Rome. Even if the sountryside is busy in the summer too, it won't seem anywhere near as packed as the cities or the tiny villages of CT.

My idea of the perfect trip.

jent103

You all certainly are giving me a lot to think about in regards to CT (and I definitely appreciate it). I think the main things I'm excited about there (and I think this applies to my friend as well) are seeing the coast, and the idea of hiking between the towns. I'm not sure how married to the idea my friend is at this point, but I'll definitely talk to her about it. If we can find somewhere that would have a similar feel to what we *think* CT does without the crowds, I think both of us might be open to that.

Dayle - we hadn't planned on renting a car, but at this point I wouldn't rule it out completely. And dwdvagamundo, thanks for the hotel recommendation! It's going on my list. Quiet would be nice - my only time in Venice was in October, and it was still pretty crowded around Piazza San Marco. I'm thinking we'll see what we need to see there and then avoid it!