Underhill

How do European credit cards with PINs work? Do you still have to sign receipts?

xyz123

It's not just a PIN...it's a chip inside the card and a pin. The terminal is in front of the customer either attached to the cash register or in case of a restaurant a portable terminal is brought to the table. The card is inserted, usually in the front part of the terminal, into the terminal and you enter your pin and press the green button. If the pin matches the pin on the chip, the transaction is approved. No signature is required.

Some people here have suggested Americans get pins for their technologically inferior magnetic strip credit cards. Irrelevant...the card will not be recognized if inserted in that portion of the terminal. Most of these terminals have a slide to slide the magnetic strip card which produces a receipt you sign.

BTW as an aside..my local Wal-Mart is putting new terminals into its stores and if you look closely, you will see that these terminals have the slot in front to insert a chip and pin card as well as the place where you slide the card. Do they know something we don't know?

Sarastro

Several points:

1. There are magnetic strip credit cards with PINs but those issued by USA banks do not have chips and the PIN only allows the holder to make a cash advance at an ATM machine, often at exorbitant rates of interest. The PIN is not used for a purchase transaction. Thus, the card holder must actually sign the charge receipt.

2. Credit cards with PINs (EMV or chipped cards) are not unique to Europe. They are becoming the standard in both Canada and Mexico as well as in most of the industrialized countries of the world. Of major countries on the globe, only the USA banking system is resisting this change. Holders of EMV cards simply input their PIN, no signature is required.

3. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to use a USA credit card around the world. In France, magnetic strip credit cards are not accepted for pay-at-the-pump transactions at gas stations, at most train or métro ticket kiosks, at many (not all) toll booths, and as servers become less and less familiar with simply swiping a card when settling at restaurants or making purchases in boutiques, the time required to make a simple payment in increasing.

4. When traveling, those who do not have EMV or chipped credit cards may want to carry a bit more cash than that to which they have become accustomed. One never knows what problems may arise when settling his next bill.

5. In spite of these problems, there is really no reason why a USA bank could not issue cards with both chips and magnetic strips. Chips for use outside of the USA and magnetic strips for use within the USA. USA banks are not particularly known for their acute interest in the specialized needs of their customers unless of course they can make a good return on meeting these needs. I don´t expect any USA bank will issue a joint capability card in the near future.

xyz123

Sarastro...you might know this as I don't. Don't chip and pin cards also come with magnetic strips for use when the cardholders visits third world (at least as far as credit card technology is concerned) like the United States.

xyz123

Actually, as I always say to people, the eu could easily resolve this issue by passing a directive such as that as of 01 January 2013, only chip and pin credit cards will be accepted within the eu. Let's see what the US banking industry would do then!

PaulHahn

Also keep in mind that there are various chip/pin standards around the world--though they are working on real standardization. So, for now, a chip/pin card that works in one country might not work in another country. So far (through my last trip to Japan in March and Europe in July of this year) I haven't had any trouble using my USA credit card anywhere in the world where there was a human being to process my purchase the "old fashioned way."

Cathinjoetown

xyz, To answer your question, my France-issued chip and pin card also has a magnetic strip.

Underhill

Thanks for all the responses. My primary interest was in finding out whether a French-bank-issued card requires a signature for use at something other than an ATM--like automated gas pumps, for example.

Michel_Paris

I'm Canadian, and have a chip'ed VISA card. My new ATM card also has a chip.

Retailer slips it into reader and you enter PIN for VISA, or PIN and account for ATM card. No pen required.

I tried my VISA card in London last year and it worked fine on their machines.

logos999

I have several German and a Luxemburgian credit card. All have chips. Noone ever wanted me to use my PINs. I don't know them anyway.

hetismij

It won't be many years now before debit/ATM cards in Europe are chip and pin only. The new cards are issued with a chip and as the readers are rolled out so it will get harder to find one where you can also swipe a card.
This is being done for the same reason as with credit cards - to stop cloning and skimming.
Dutch banks have said that when the time comes they will still issue cards with a magnetic strip on request for those visiting countries like the US.
If Dutch banks can do that why can't US banks issued chip and pin cards on request to there customers?

Christina

You don't have to sign anything in the US when using a credit card at a gas pump, even though it doesn't have a chip/PIN system. I've never heard of anyone having to sign something at a gas pump when you can use a card. The whole point is not to involve humans, I think (who often aren't even there).

logos999

Ops, forgot, I DO know the PINs from two of my credit cards. Those are the ones I can use to withdraw cash from any Visa capable ATM worlwide without ANY fees. Those 2% are waived.

One from a big Dutch Bank, the other from a big Bavarian bank.
This makes travelling VERY nice.
I've seen ATMs in the US that were charging $102 for a $100 withdrawal. The Bavarian bank refunded those $2 when I sent them an email about this.
Good service!

logos999

>who often aren't even there
So if I want some Coke, candy bars, chips, milk or a pizza, there's noone there...

xyz123

hetismij....your last question has a two faced answer. One is that the USA is a very contrary minded country (I'm a USA citizen and I don't have a problem saying this). There are so many things we could learn from other countries but just refuse to do because...well because perhaps we didn't do it first I suppose. After all, the USA is the country that basically was the first to decimalize its currency (I think this is true but if not first than one of the first). Yet even today, the country refuses to decimalize its sytem of measurements. I mean are kids go to school and are taught, believe it or not, how to convert 4.5 miles to feet. Heaven forbid we wuld adopt the metric system where 4.5 km is 4,500 meters. It is hard to believe in this century, only the USA still uses measurements based on the length of a certain King of England's foot in the 16th century (well England does too but they have metricized most other things except pints). We still use the obsolete Farenheit thermometer. Everybody else, even the English, use Celsius. I always tell the story of the American lady on a bus tour of Europe during the winter, coming into Lucerne and the tour guide saying we'll get off the coach to see the Lion Monument. The lady asked the temperature. The guide said 10 degrees and this lady says, youwant us to go outside in cold like that.

We cost our treasury millions. Everybody agrees the $1 bill has long outlived its usefulness and a njice looking solid $1 coin should be issued but we refuse to do so.

So you think our banks are going to adopt a system they didn't invent? Come now.

Actually a more realistic answer to all these things is cost. GHiven the size of the USA, how much money would it cost to convert the entire payment system to chip and pin? Belkieve me, there is some pressure coming from merchants because it is clear chip and pni cuts down a great deal of credit card fraud on the merchant level (not necessarily say on the internet). As I noted, all the new credit card terminals at Wal-mart are now set up to take chip and pin cards. They can begin now issuing such terminals as terminals are constantly being replaced. They could start now by issuing chip and pin cards which would continue to work with the magnetic strips. But I am sure the bean counters have determined that the cost of fraud on credit cards is far less than it would cost to convert the system and what is that old saying..money talks. (Just like the argument against converting the US and England from miles to km is the cost to replace all the highway signs).

Until some external force is imposed on the USA banking system, and I suggested one possible vehicle, have the eu declare that as of a certain date only chip and pin cards would be acceptable throughout the eu, with the possible loss of the ability to generate revenue with things such as foreign currency transaction fees and interchange fees in general on credit cards, you would see just how fast chip and pin would come into the USA.

Until that day comes, the USA will continue to go its merry way thinking the way we do things is sane and the rest of the world is crazy!

xyz123

Excuse my typos..;I just type too fast. Of course are should be our kids and others with extra letters. I can't proof read all that well these days without a spell check, another modern convenience.

xyz123

logos....Plus and cirrus regulations prohibit banks from charging their obnoxeous "convenience" fees on withdrawals from their machines so a US bank that has a $2 fee for withdrawing from their machine is not supposed to be charging this fee on any transaction going through cirrus or plus which are owned by mc and visa. They get away with this by processing the transaction through some other shared teller network which doesn't have this prohibition.

xyz123

Christina...more and more places don't require signatures. I go to the grocery now, swipe my card in the terminal and if the amount is under $50, no signature is required. Even in those places where signatures are required on the key pad, the clers NEVER ask to see the card and compare signatures. Same thing is true in fast food places for transactions under a certain amount (this was one of the requirements of the fast food industry to begin accepting credit cards namely swipe and go). OTOH, when I use my credit card in London, every clerk makes a production of looking at the signature on the sales slip and the signature on the card. There are very few swipe terminals. Not that they've ever said anything about the signatures.

logos999

>processing the transaction through some other shared teller network

I had this 5€ problem also with a german Sparkasse bank in Eisenstein close to the Czech border. It was the only Bank within kilometers, except for the ATM in the casino in the Czech part of town, but they had crowns only...

My bank mailed me that this action by Sparkasse was completely illegal and they had federal autorities look into this. Didn't get a feedback so far.

xyz123

oops again...the "convenience" fee is not supposed to be charged on a card issued outside the country of the machine. thus when Americans travel to Europe and use an American ATM card in a foreign ATM, they're not supposed to be charged by the bank of the ATM. Similarly if one uses a German ATM card at an American ATM, they are not supposed to be charged this feel In some cases, ATM machines not attached to a bank but owned by some private outfit do charge these fees I believe illegally but they do it nonetheless.