US credit/debit/ATM cards in Europe
Apr 18th, 2005, 08:12 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US credit/debit/ATM cards in Europe
I have been getting assorted disturbing information about US credit/debit/ATM cards not working in Europe.
To wit:
1. US credit cards are not Smart. Some places will take only smart cards. Like French highway tollbooths.
2. ATM machines require PINs that don't begin with a zero
3. Belgium now accepts only debit cards, not plain ATM cards. Is this true in other countries? (We had replaced our debit card with a plain ATM card because the latter can only be used with a PIN.)
On our next trip, we will be mostly in France along with a short stop on the Italian Riviera. Driving only in France. Do I need to worry about these card problems?
To wit:
1. US credit cards are not Smart. Some places will take only smart cards. Like French highway tollbooths.
2. ATM machines require PINs that don't begin with a zero
3. Belgium now accepts only debit cards, not plain ATM cards. Is this true in other countries? (We had replaced our debit card with a plain ATM card because the latter can only be used with a PIN.)
On our next trip, we will be mostly in France along with a short stop on the Italian Riviera. Driving only in France. Do I need to worry about these card problems?
Apr 18th, 2005, 11:20 AM
#2
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#3. I'm not sure what you mean by debit card vs ATM. I use the term interchangably referring to my visa logo card linked to my checking account that I use at the ATM or at a supermarket when I want cash back (always using my pin).
Can you educate us on the difference?
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:24 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATM only cards do not have a visa or mastercard logo and have to be used in conjunction with a pin number. But you can use them for non-banking point of sale transactions, such as grocery store purchases, etc. You just have to key in your pin to complete the transaction.
I haven't run into any problems using at ATM only card in the past year and a half of travels, but I haven't been to Belgium during that time.
Haven't experienced any problems abroad with a pin number starting with zero either.
I haven't run into any problems using at ATM only card in the past year and a half of travels, but I haven't been to Belgium during that time.
Haven't experienced any problems abroad with a pin number starting with zero either.
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:30 PM
#5
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J62,
The difference with your visa logo card is that it can be used with or without a pin and has a 16 digit card number starting with a 4 just like all other visa cards. You can use it without a pin for credit transactions anywhere one could normally use a credit card.
The difference with your visa logo card is that it can be used with or without a pin and has a 16 digit card number starting with a 4 just like all other visa cards. You can use it without a pin for credit transactions anywhere one could normally use a credit card.
Apr 18th, 2005, 12:32 PM
#6
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't need a "smart card" for highway toll booths; our U.S. credit card worked just fine. But you won't be able to use a U.S. card in the machines at gas stations, which require cards with microchips.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:01 PM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You cannot use an ATM-only card for purchases, regardless of PINs. It is an ATM-only card which is exactly what that says, and is only for withdrawing money from your account, not for purchases. I have one and it has no relationship to charging things as purchases.
I haven't been to France since last summer, but had no problem using my ATM-only card in ATMs. I could not use my credit card at the machines at the train station to buy a ticket from a machine, perhaps because of the smart chip thing. I don't know, it didn't really matter to me that much as I just went to a ticket clerk to get my tickets. I had no problem using my credit card for buying anything or for hotel or restaurant charges.
I don't have a PIN that begins with a zero, and have heard that rumor on and off as to whether it's true they don't work. Why have a PIN that being with zero, anyway, just change it if you are concerned.
I haven't been to France since last summer, but had no problem using my ATM-only card in ATMs. I could not use my credit card at the machines at the train station to buy a ticket from a machine, perhaps because of the smart chip thing. I don't know, it didn't really matter to me that much as I just went to a ticket clerk to get my tickets. I had no problem using my credit card for buying anything or for hotel or restaurant charges.
I don't have a PIN that begins with a zero, and have heard that rumor on and off as to whether it's true they don't work. Why have a PIN that being with zero, anyway, just change it if you are concerned.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:10 PM
#9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did have trouble using my "plain" ATM card in France, and Patrick did in Italy (I believe he said Italy only accepted debit cards now).
Even though I prefer the plain, I switched back to the Visa logo debit card because I don't want to be panicked. I was in dire need of money when I ran into problems on the last trip.
Even though I prefer the plain, I switched back to the Visa logo debit card because I don't want to be panicked. I was in dire need of money when I ran into problems on the last trip.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:11 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christina....In order to change your pin number you must get a new card as your pin is embedded into the card strip.
I am concerned about this "pin number starting with a zero" thing. Does anyone know for a fact if that is indeed a problem, specifically in Italy and Paris? We will be traveling there in four weeks and I was relying on withdrawing from ATMs for extra cash.
I am concerned about this "pin number starting with a zero" thing. Does anyone know for a fact if that is indeed a problem, specifically in Italy and Paris? We will be traveling there in four weeks and I was relying on withdrawing from ATMs for extra cash.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:31 PM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christina,
There must be a difference with different banks then. I have a Citibank issued ATM card and I can definitely use it for POS transactions but it's not a visa/mastercard logo card and I cannot use it as a credit card.
There must be a difference with different banks then. I have a Citibank issued ATM card and I can definitely use it for POS transactions but it's not a visa/mastercard logo card and I cannot use it as a credit card.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:44 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a visa debit/credit card which can be used for purchases or to withdraw money from my checking acct. I have asked the bank to set the credit part at 0 so no one can use it for purchases. I have also set the debit side at zero. In effect I have a plain "vanilla" atm card but if lost or stolen can not be used without my PIN number. However, it still has the Visa recognition.
Worked just fine all over Central Europe recently.
Apr 18th, 2005, 06:54 PM
#14
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, hope this can clear up a little.
I switched my Bank of America ATM/debit card with a Visa logo to an ATM only card several years ago. It CANNOT be used for any purchases at all. It can only be used for ATM transactions. In 2003, for the first time I had problems in Belgium only, and found that according to a bank manager -- ALL Belgium banks now use Visa International Services for ALL ATM foreign transactions. As a result an ATM only card WILL NOT WORK IN BELGIUM. No problems anywhere else that year. But in summer of 2004, I had a problem at several banks in Italy, and at Deutsche Bank in Rome (Deutsche Bank is a partner of Bank of America) I spoke with a bank manager who told me they had just switched within that past month to using VISA International services for all ATM foreign transactions. So they along with several other banks in Italy had ATMs that WOULD NOT ACCEPT ATM ONLY CARDS. We did manage to find other banks in Italy where the ATM only card still worked. We had no problems in any other country, including France.
I have now switched my ATM only card back to an ATM/Debit card which once again has a VISA and a Cirrus logo on it. Bank of America has assured me that if someone, somehow stole my card, as soon as I report it, they will immediately replace any funds that were illegally drawn on my account. Since I do not plan to use it as a debit card, or for anything other than ATM withdrawals, I also feel confident there is no way someone could get my number like they could with a credit card.
And by the way, it is my understanding that there is an agreement between VISA and MASTERCHARGE that either logo will work in machines controlled by the other. It is only a problem if your ATM ONLY card has no connection at all with either MC or VISA.
I switched my Bank of America ATM/debit card with a Visa logo to an ATM only card several years ago. It CANNOT be used for any purchases at all. It can only be used for ATM transactions. In 2003, for the first time I had problems in Belgium only, and found that according to a bank manager -- ALL Belgium banks now use Visa International Services for ALL ATM foreign transactions. As a result an ATM only card WILL NOT WORK IN BELGIUM. No problems anywhere else that year. But in summer of 2004, I had a problem at several banks in Italy, and at Deutsche Bank in Rome (Deutsche Bank is a partner of Bank of America) I spoke with a bank manager who told me they had just switched within that past month to using VISA International services for all ATM foreign transactions. So they along with several other banks in Italy had ATMs that WOULD NOT ACCEPT ATM ONLY CARDS. We did manage to find other banks in Italy where the ATM only card still worked. We had no problems in any other country, including France.
I have now switched my ATM only card back to an ATM/Debit card which once again has a VISA and a Cirrus logo on it. Bank of America has assured me that if someone, somehow stole my card, as soon as I report it, they will immediately replace any funds that were illegally drawn on my account. Since I do not plan to use it as a debit card, or for anything other than ATM withdrawals, I also feel confident there is no way someone could get my number like they could with a credit card.
And by the way, it is my understanding that there is an agreement between VISA and MASTERCHARGE that either logo will work in machines controlled by the other. It is only a problem if your ATM ONLY card has no connection at all with either MC or VISA.
Apr 19th, 2005, 04:32 AM
#17
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<Bank of America has assured me that if someone, somehow stole my card, as soon as I report it, they will immediately replace any funds that were illegally drawn on my account.>
That's very nice of BoA to immediately replace the funds. My bank will not do that -- I have to fill out some forms, and it could take a couple of weeks to get the funds replaced back into my checking account. For this reason, I have disabled the VISA portion of my VISA ATM debit card, and the card is only good if I use it with a PIN, either at an ATM machine, or a merchant who accepts the card and allows you to plug in your pin. Grocery stores and some other merchants are going this way.
Since I do most of my bill paying from my checking account on line, I don't want to take the chance that my checking account will be wiped out by someone using the VISA portion of the debit card. While BoA said they would immediately replace the funds, I believe that would be the exception rather than the rule, since it would be so susceptible to fraud.
That's very nice of BoA to immediately replace the funds. My bank will not do that -- I have to fill out some forms, and it could take a couple of weeks to get the funds replaced back into my checking account. For this reason, I have disabled the VISA portion of my VISA ATM debit card, and the card is only good if I use it with a PIN, either at an ATM machine, or a merchant who accepts the card and allows you to plug in your pin. Grocery stores and some other merchants are going this way.
Since I do most of my bill paying from my checking account on line, I don't want to take the chance that my checking account will be wiped out by someone using the VISA portion of the debit card. While BoA said they would immediately replace the funds, I believe that would be the exception rather than the rule, since it would be so susceptible to fraud.
Apr 19th, 2005, 04:45 AM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LVSue...Okay. I stand corrected. Last month my husband wanted to change his and our bank told him the code was embedded and they would have to send him a new card in order to change it. Perhaps this is just our bank however, I figured it was the rule for all. Sorry to have made a general statement for all.
Apr 19th, 2005, 04:49 AM
#19
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I've never seen the advantage of using the debit card feature which leads to an immediate withdrawal from your chequing account (or conceivably a savings account if it's the primary account on the card). With a credit card you get a float lasting from as little as a couple of days to a full month.
I also would never use my primary chequing account card; rather I opened up an account with an internet bank, keep $1.01 in the account and before I travel, I transfer money into it to cover my projected cash withdrawals; can always go online to transfer more if necessary.
As far as chip cards, the technology is being imposed in the UK and there was a thread a couple of months ago. Interestingly enough, the chip the UK banks have chosen to use is incompatible with the French chip; I guess at some point standardization will be coming.
At present, the terminals in the UK have to accept both chip and non chip cards much as the little French terminals do; somehow I don't think the international card associations want to do anything to keep international customers from being able to use their cards.
All this in the name of security; of course it is just a matter of time before the vermin who operate throughout the world but especially in Eastern Europe figure out how to counterfeit the chips.
Such swine.
I also would never use my primary chequing account card; rather I opened up an account with an internet bank, keep $1.01 in the account and before I travel, I transfer money into it to cover my projected cash withdrawals; can always go online to transfer more if necessary.
As far as chip cards, the technology is being imposed in the UK and there was a thread a couple of months ago. Interestingly enough, the chip the UK banks have chosen to use is incompatible with the French chip; I guess at some point standardization will be coming.
At present, the terminals in the UK have to accept both chip and non chip cards much as the little French terminals do; somehow I don't think the international card associations want to do anything to keep international customers from being able to use their cards.
All this in the name of security; of course it is just a matter of time before the vermin who operate throughout the world but especially in Eastern Europe figure out how to counterfeit the chips.
Such swine.
Apr 19th, 2005, 05:05 AM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<Personally I've never seen the advantage of using the debit card feature which leads to an immediate withdrawal from your chequing account (or conceivably a savings account if it's the primary account on the card). With a credit card you get a float lasting from as little as a couple of days to a full month.>
That's true for purchases, especially if your credit card has recently cycled -- you could have more than a full month float.
That's not true for cash advances -- you would have to pay interest as soon as you withdraw the funds. The ATM would be used by taking money from your checking account to use for cash purchases, i.e. entrance fees, cafe, gelato, etc.
That's true for purchases, especially if your credit card has recently cycled -- you could have more than a full month float.
That's not true for cash advances -- you would have to pay interest as soon as you withdraw the funds. The ATM would be used by taking money from your checking account to use for cash purchases, i.e. entrance fees, cafe, gelato, etc.
