Notices

Under Tuscan Hell

Old Oct 24th, 2003, 10:00 AM
  #21  
dln
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Actually, watching Enchanted April is a great idea! Catherine, once you get this all sorted out about who's going and who's not, I have a small suggestion. Don't stick to each other like glue. We have the best time when we're with other couples and we eat breakfast together and then meet up again for dinner together. If any of us wants to spend the day with the other, fine, but if not, that's also fine. There's no expectation to do everything together just because we're at the same place together. We spent four nights in Umbria with my BIL and SIL, and they're great people but we ate three meals a day with them, spent every day sightseeing with them...we couldn't shake them no matter what!!! By day 3 I was ready to start howling at the moon.
 
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 10:26 AM
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,188
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't see any point in trying to force the friend to uninvite the pretentious people. She wants them along, so let her have her own trip. Just make separate plans of your own with whatever friends you really want to take. If you did succeed in getting her to uninvite the people, do you think you would end up with a pleasant trip with her? Most likely she would be resentful and it could get nasty.
WillTravel is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 10:42 AM
  #23  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,122
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree with everyone but had one more idea. IF you wanted to even entertain the idea of allowing this to happen, set up a meeting/outing/dinner beforehand to see how they are. I personally would feel the same way as you, BUT if are curious as to who they are, you may have time to get to know them now, if they are local...just a thought. Great Thread Name by the way !
Wednesday is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 11:50 AM
  #24  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not that you need yet another vote, but I agree with the others. The fact is you all were planning this trip together and she didn't have the right to make a major decision about the vacation without consulting the others.

Although I don't know your history with this friend, I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she hasn't done this type of thing before. So, I would say, if you value her friendship, that you should tell her as nicely and tactfully as possible that the uninvited guests are just that. Not invited.

She should be understanding if she is a good friend. After all, if you don't get along with these people, the entire trip could be ruined.
daria is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 12:40 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Catherine , there is an old roman proverb that saysquot; E meglio essere sola che male accompagnata", it means that is best to be alone, that to be in bad company...
Tell your friends that you should stick to the original plans,and that you dont feel comfortable sharing your lodging with strangers.By the way unless the villa is a mansion, where are these people going to sleep?
For myself, I dont enjoy going in vacation with other people, I like to be free to do What I want to do...
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 01:25 PM
  #26  
Catherine
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I am amazed at all of the replies. And you all agree with me! Thank God no one told me to grin and bear it. I'm afraid I don't have that much "grin" in me.

Since we haven't paid any deposits yet, we're going to invite my friend and her husband out to dinner and just tell them straight-out that we don't want to include additional people into the group dynamic. We all have been friends for a long time and it would just not be the same. I enjoy meeting and being around new people, but not for this trip.

Many of you were right about my friend. She is a bit ditzy and doesn't always have the best judgment, but we've been through a lot together growing up. She and her husband are pretty easy to travel with as they are so compliant with whatever anyone wants to do and very agreeable. (She's a gourmet cook as well!) I think her good nature offers people the opportunity to take advantage of her and I feel somewhat protective.

Maybe she wants us and the other couple to kick a fuss so she can tell the others that it just didn't work out.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I'm putting this behind me and concentrating on a great location!
 
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 01:53 PM
  #27  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think you should call your friends' friends directly and welcome them, saying "We didn't know you were nudists, too! Boy are we looking forward to a lot of time in the sun, if you know what I mean. Remember, pack light!"
Bitter is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 02:04 PM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BITTER! LOL! GOOD ONE!
Calamari is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 02:41 PM
  #29  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,426
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Maybe she wants us and the other couple to kick a fuss so she can tell the others that it just didn't work out."

This is what would bother the heck out of me. Sweetie gets to be sweetie, and the rest of you get to be The Bad Guys. Look, you know your friend, but this kind of manipulative behaviour would disturb me even more than another's pretentiousness. (And no, I have learned, finally, that it is NOT sweet...) The duplicity would also tend to undermine my trust. If she talks behind these people's backs about their character flaws, what is she saying behind YOUR backs to them? What does this tell you about her role in generating, as opposed to resolving conflicts? And you propose sharing a villa for two weeks with this person? Catherine, some friends aren't meant to travel with.

IF it were me (and I realize it ain't) I would NOT be pressured into solving this person's problems for them. I'd throw the ball back in your friend's court and simply state: We are unhappy with the revised group, what do you, Sweetie, think we should do about it?

I predict her response will be a doe-eyed, oh, I'll tell them they can't come if you really don't want them to. (Thereby sabotaging any hope of friendship with these people should it later turn out they are more bearable or likeable than as presented to you.)

To which I would reply, No, you tell them not to come, or to come, if YOU really want them to. But we will make our decision dependent on yours.

Good luck, this is easier said than done, I know.

And Bitter, that was priceless. : - )
Sue_xx_yy is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 02:47 PM
  #30  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bitter: GREAT ONE! LOL!

Catherine: Why not try an in-between road which is also diplomatic? Why not say to sweetie that you and your DH hadn't anticipated having anyone else along and that you are really worried about the chemical mix of this new group?

Then suggest that ALL of you, the three original couples plus this new couple, get together for one evening - just to get to know one another? Tell sweetie that you reserve judgment on the new couple until after you have met them, and, therefore, their inclusion is dependent on how things work out during the initial meeting.

Why knows? You may enjoy them immensely. On the other hand, it wasn't fair of sweetie to suddenly thrust a new dimension on the rest of you - but, you can prove to be open-minded by at least entertaining the idea of another couple entering the picture.

If you are spending BIG BUCKS as you have implied, I agree with the other posters that you should feel totally at ease during your vacation. Just meet this other couple and keep an open mind. If they turn out to be as bad as sweetie has said, then she, for one, should have no problem telling the new couple that they can't join in on the trip.

Just my HO - after my second glass of Sublime, a new French orange liqueur obtained at Trader Joe's for only $5. I was going to use it to make orange cake (yeah, right!)
easytraveler is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 02:51 PM
  #31  
lyb
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bitter,

Truly funny!!! But what if they say, Yippee!!!

kismetchimera,

>>there is an old roman proverb that saysquot; E meglio essere sola che male accompagnata", it means that is best to be alone, that to be in bad company.<<

Now, I know why I felt so at home in Italy, that's exactly how I feel about life in general...a good book, my cat, TV, watching a blade of grass growing is better than being with someone you really don't like.
lyb is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 02:51 PM
  #32  
dln
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Oh easytraveler! You said the right thing by mentioning Trader Joe's. They import Italian pasta (wrapped in brown paper and tied with a raffia string) and it is the next best thing to being in Italy. Catherine, try this and you will be counting the days until you turn 30 and enjoy your Italian trip (I have a feeling everything will turn out alright.)
 
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 03:05 PM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 771
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, you seemed to have gotten 100% replies to not go along with the added company. I completely agree. This is to be a special 30th b-day for 3 close couples. I suspect your friend excitedly told "her" friends about the trip and they said, "we want to go." Being a timid person she said o.k. Now she's stuck. However, she can tell her friends that the rest of you want to keep the group intimate and not include people you don't know. Takes her off the hook.
nancy is offline  
Old Oct 24th, 2003, 09:37 PM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Although I am in total agreement with the majority of the posters here, there are a few things that are unclear to me:

1. Is there a firm date for this trip and have the original three couples all agreed to this trip, or is it still a conceptual idea for three couples to rent a villa in Tuscany for two weeks?

2. Has a villa been selected and have the deposits been paid?

3. What is the opinion of the third couple?

It would seem to me that the three couples that had initially planned this trip need to discuss together whether a fourth couple should join them. It may be perfectly alright with the third couple in this party (of which we don't know their opinion) for the fourth to join in. It may be presumptuous of Catherine to assume that the costs involved are not an issue to the other two couples.

If costs are an issue to the two couples (other than Catherine and her husband), will a vote of 2/3 to go ahead and invite the fourth couple be okay with Catherine, or will Catherine and her husband bow out and go on this trip alone?

Although I do see Catherine's point, and it may also be the consensus of the couple that we don't have an opinion from, it also may not be fair for Catherine to make the decision/give an ultimatum for the group as a whole.

Lastly, if the friend that invited the fourth couple bows out of this trip, will the cost of renting a villa be overwhelming for two couples, instead of three or four?

Someone previously suggested that no matter how many couples actually take this trip, that you should have more than one vehicle at your disposal. For two weeks, all of you don't want to be attached at the hip no matter how close you are. You will definitely need some space from each other and you will need to set up some ground rules. Even the closest of friends can become disenchanted with each other when you are together too often.

Best of luck whatever the outcome, and do enjoy your vacation.
leslie is offline  
Old Oct 25th, 2003, 03:52 AM
  #35  
Degas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
True friendship is a wonderful thing.

I can see how frustration and resentment could result both before and after the trip given this odd situation.

This touchy issue needs to be resolved ASAP so you can focus on the positive aspects of the trip. Don't risk ruining the group dynamics just to save a few bucks!
 
Old Oct 25th, 2003, 03:58 AM
  #36  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,050
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The last few posts have been assuming that Catherine's friend invited one other, fourth, couple, but actually her first post said, "these plans have been compromised by several interlopers who, by virtue of a friendship with one of our core group, have elected to participate in this trip to minimize costs. " Several is not one other couple, and "have elected" isn't exactly the same as being invited.

And I think her strategy posted yeserday, "we're going to invite my friend and her husband out to dinner and just tell them straight-out that we don't want to include additional people into the group dynamic. We all have been friends for a long time and it would just not be the same. I enjoy meeting and being around new people, but not for this trip," makes sense completely. Good luck, Catherine!
Anonymous is offline  
Old Oct 25th, 2003, 04:03 AM
  #37  
ira
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,678
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
>Bitter,

Truly funny!!! But what if they say, Yippee!!! <

Rather than nudists substitute "swingers".
ira is offline  
Old Oct 25th, 2003, 08:17 AM
  #38  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ira, they may say: Yippee, Yippee Hurray!! THen What?
kismetchimera is offline  
Old Oct 26th, 2003, 01:29 PM
  #39  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mention that you are bringing your new screaming baby, step child, recently adopted toddler or your foster child - who thows wobblies evey other minute, has a hyper activity issue and never sleeps. Good luck Caterina
Calamari is offline  
Old Oct 26th, 2003, 06:05 PM
  #40  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
We had planned a trip to Italy with another couple, who have been our friends for over 40 years (went to high school together). Several weeks into the planning, the "other" woman calls and says she was thinking of inviting a couple they spend time with at their summer home. This couple had already been to Italy, and when they heard about the trip, they wanted to come along.
I stood my ground and said that I didn't think it would be a good idea, since we'd never met them (our friends live in another state), and also because the new couple had already been there and would want to see "their" favorite places, or get to places they hadn't seen the first time. I just thought it would create too much tension. Thankfully, the 3rd couple didn't come, and as it was, there was enough tension with just the 4 of us!

It's funny, we spend about a week every year together, but placed in a foreign country, and with one very picky eater, that was enough to concern ourselves with! Two weeks is a long time to be together constantly. You need to choose your travel companions very carefully, and give each other space. We learned a lot on that trip.

This year, we went alone for the first time, and while we sort of missed the conversations and sharing of each day's experiences, we truly had a ball just doing what WE wanted to do.
Hagan is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Maureen_QC
Travel Tips & Trip Ideas
8
Aug 24th, 2008 09:23 AM
Martiee
Europe
23
Feb 28th, 2008 03:15 PM
Heavens
Europe
40
May 17th, 2006 09:44 AM
gard
Europe
73
May 4th, 2006 10:01 AM
KirRoyale
Europe
37
Sep 26th, 2003 08:38 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

FODOR'S VIDEO