fernandoghiggi7025

Hello! I have purchased plane tickets and putting together an itinerary to go to Italy between October 19th and November 9th, 2024, arriving in Milan, Verona, a quick two-day trip through the Dolomites just to get an overview, Venice, a day tour in Bologna on the way to Florence , a few days in the Tuscany region, and finally Rome.



In the current itinerary, Florence and the Tuscan countryside (Siena, Val D'Orcia, Pienza, Montepulciano, Moterrigioni and San Giminiano) are after Bologna (28th), between October 29th and November 4th.



I know there is the November 1st public holiday, which will be on a Friday, causing an influx of locals on vacation. I've read that after the holidays, the Tuscan countryside becomes more “dead” with closed shops, almost no people, etc.



On the other hand, I'm afraid that during the holidays and weekends the city of Florence or Pisa will have compromised tours or that I won't have contact with the “live” city.I didn’t want my stay in Florence to feel like a place “blacked out” by the holiday, nor for the Tuscan countryside to have closed or “ghost” towns after the holiday or on the weekend from November 1st onwards.



Also, I feel like the earlier I go to the coutryside, the better chances I have to get good climate and some sunny/dry days.Anyway, my question is which of the alternatives below would be “better”:



(1) Florence/Pisa first, from 10/29 to 10/31. On November 1st (Friday, public holiday), take the Via Chiantigiana to Siena. On 02/11 and 03/11 (Saturday and Sunday after holiday), tour in Siena and Val D'Ocia. On Monday, November 4th, post-holiday, pass through Monterrigioni and San Giminiano and return to Florence, just to stay overnight and then go to Rome by train.



(2) Siena/Coutryside first, leaving on 10/29 via Via Chiantigiana, 10/30 and 10/31 visiting Siena and Val D'Orcia going to Montepulciano; the other day, the trip to Monterrigioni and San Giminiano on November 1st (Friday holiday), returning to Florence to stay in the city and get to know Pisa, from Saturday until November 4th.



(3) small change, also doing Siena/Countryside first, but leaving on 10/29 via Via Chantigiana and going that same day to Monterrigioni and San Giminiano, staying overnight in Siena. Then Siena city tour at 10/30. On 10/31, visit Val D’Orcia and go to Motepulciano. Return to Florence on November 1st (holiday) morning, and do Florence and Pisa between November 1st and November 4th, to go to Rome on November 5th. In this case, I get a day in Florence or Rome, or I can add another part of the Tuscan countryside, since I unite San Giminiano and Monterrigioni on the first day.



(4) change the travel itinerary so that the Tuscan countryside is not on November 1st.



Thanks, and sorry for the long message.

Jean

The way you've laid out your itinerary and alternatives makes it hard (at least for me) to grasp exactly how much time you'd be spending in each place. It would be easier to understand if you listed each day and where you'd be, what you'd be doing, noting transfer days, etc. Overall, for me, it feels a bit too fast-paced and attempting to reach too many places... even over what I think is 18 days before Rome. I dislike a string of short stays (1-2 nights) and lots of hotel changes, but I know many like to travel that way.

I've been to all of these destinations, some multiple times. If this is your first visit, you should focus on exactly what you want to see/do everywhere, decide how much time that would require, and think less about the impact of the holiday other than acknowledge that many things will be closed that day. None of these cities/towns will be dead or remotely "empty" although some parts of the Dolomites will definitely be very quiet. Lots of the major sights in Florence are not open every Sunday and/or Monday, so if the majority of your time there is on those days you may have trouble seeing everything on your sightseeing list.

You'd need a car to make a quick trip into the Dolomites worth the effort/time. So, where to pick up and return the car? Verona makes sense in your plan, but you need to note the driving times, car rental office hours at both ends, etc., and understand what's possible in such a short window of time. If you pick up the car in Verona and return it in Venice, there will be a one-way surcharge. We've been in the Dolomites about 10 days earlier than your plan. Weather was good, but that doesn't mean you'll be as lucky. You need to watch the weather and alter plans if advisable. Personally, although I love this area, I'd leave the Dolomites for another trip with more time to explore and better chances of good weather.

If you haven't driven in Italy before, you need to learn about ZTLs. Zona Traffico Limitato. These are areas in the historical centers of nearly every city and town that you are not allowed to drive into during most/many hours of the day, many days of the week. If you drive into the zone, even by accident, you will very likely receive a citation in the mail after you get home. Every violation can trigger a separate citation. Many people prefer to rent/return cars at the Florence airport rather than deal with the ZTL in the city.

I hope you're planning more than 3 full days in Rome. Likewise, IMO, the main sights of Florence can easily fill 3 full days, not counting a day trip to Pisa and/or Lucca. If you want to climb the Leaning Tower, you need a timed reservation.

fernandoghiggi7025

Thanks for the reply! I'm just beggining to plan the itinerary, so It's great to have some advise.

The Dolomites and Tuscany countryside parts would be both by car. Still thinking about Dolomites, because I know it's not the best time of the year, and time would be short. The idea is to get a glimpse of the region, aiming to return on a future trip. It would be 1st day (10/22) leaving Verona by car early in the morning and stopping at a couple of vista points. Then, 2 full days to explore a couple of points of interest and maybe a hike. Finally, the last day (10/25) driving by the morning to Venice, or back to Verona (but I believe the train ticket would cover the price of the surcharge). I could make this part adjustable to skip the Dolomites depending on the weather to do someting else by northern Italy on these days, or just ignore it beforehand on this trip and add more days on other places as you said (Rome/Florence or even choose either the Dolomites or the coutryside of Tuscany, adding some backup days in case the weather doesn't help here or there).

For Rome, as of now, I'd have the day of arrival (I believe early afternoon), as the first, plus 3 full days. Then on the next day i'll take the plane back to Brazil at 12pm.

If you could help with my first concern (or doubt) on the original post, wich I still didn't quite understand would be: with or without the aforementioned changes in itinerary, in theory, would I make the most of the trip by visiting the countryside of Tuscany or Florence before the holiday/weekend, during it, and from november 2nd onwards?

If it helps, as of now, I'd be arriving on Florence on 10/28 by night, renting the car on 10/31, going trough Via Chantigiana on november 1st to Siena, then the Siena tour on 11/02. After that, Val D'Orcia and back to the hotel in Siena on 11/03, and finally through Monterrigioni and San Giminiano on 04/11 going back to Florence, returning the car probably on the next morning as we'd probably arrive kinda late, before taking the train to Rome.

Of course, it's provisory and open to sugestions.

Oh, we are more of the architecture, history and natural scenery admirors. Not so much for art/galleries, so we're not planning to visit many galleries and suchlikes.

Thanks, again.

Jean

IMO, if you're already assuming you'd return to the Dolomites on a future trip, don't use any days of this trip for a quick look. You'll spend time renting and returning the car and need to travel into several parts of the region, over multiple mountain passes, through valleys, past a lake or two, to appreciate the variety and drama of the scenery. I don't see the point of a "glimpse" when there is so much variety. If you're interested in World War I, there are some interesting sights that take some effort to reach and explore. Some of the most spectacular views are from hiking trails at the tops of chair lifts and cable cars, but very few of these lifts will be operating, and I wouldn't assume the weather to be nice enough for much hiking (although, again, you could get lucky).

If you skip the Dolomites, would you then arrive in Tuscany earlier? If so, that would slow the itinerary down, presumably giving you more time there, and making Nov. 1st less of a concern.

I think you're short-changing the Val d'Orcia towns. One day from Siena doesn't give you much time in any of the towns, and they are all different.

I don't like driving on unfamiliar roads (in a foreign country!) in the dark, so I wouldn't even plan on returning to Florence after dark. If that's unavoidable, I'd head to the airport (not into Florence), return the car and taxi or tram into the city.

Are you sure 3 full days in Rome is enough time to do/see everything on your sightseeing list??

fernandoghiggi7025

Well, it’s making sense to me just skip the Dolomites and plan to return in a drier season with everything open and more time to spare.

Yes, it would give me 3 days (considering two partials traveling to/from the Dolomites and the two full days there), só I could arrive earlier in Florence, Tuscany and/or Rome.

Still, I think it's worth to mention. Even though I say I plan to come back to Italy and I have good standard of living and wage, It's not that easy, as I live in the coutryside on the southern most state of Brazil, tickets are expensive nowdays and takes a good amount of time and good planning to cross the ocean on vacation. That's why sometimes it feels like leaving something aside or one less/extra day somewhere is a very hard decision.

As for short-changing the towns in Tuscany, could you give some tips for your style of more slown down itinerary?

Most websites suggest that a "long" stay here would be something like 1st day going throu Via Chantigiana, 2 full days in Siena (one in the city and one in a surounding village), and 2 days in Val D’Orcia region, before returning to Florence and in the same day pass through San Giminiano and Monterrigioni.

I wouldn’t mind driving early evening a little bit, but surely won’t plan to do most of it by night. The olny day would be this return to Florence. Maybe one other occasion on a vista point with a nice sunset, if the weather helps with it.

Finally, as of now, the arriving day plus 3 full days is seeming like the “minimum enough” for Rome (of course, there is always more to do, also planning to come back on a future trip to southern Italy, Amalfi, Napoli and Popeii). Arrival day would be free, or to schedule one of the guided visits on the late afternoon. The second day for Colosseum, Fori and Circo, and going through Plazza Venezia and Vittorio Emannuele Monument. Third day for Castle Sant’Angelo and Vatican, a sunset in Belvedere Del Gianiculo. Fourth day to Pantheon visit and Villa Borghesi, goint to Piazza del Poppolo. Days are interchangeable, and at nights some places to go.

If I do skip the Dolomites, I do plan to add one more day in Rome. Also, of course, I do accept tips for places to go/visit.

bilboburgler

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_a_traffico_limitato

I think you are missing out meeting Italians, one of the nicer parts of a visit to Italy. Maybe look at doing a morning's cooking with some or some art.
A car in Venice would be a mistake. Venice to Padua is an easy train ride and Padua is fantastic. Bologna, etc etc
Early November is not always great, so you need a plan A and a plan B for each day.
I'm not sure if you know this tool https://www.rome2rio.com/map/Siena/Florence-Italy but it offers you access to the complex world of alt transport. There are also things in Italy called bicycles. So if I were in Siena for a day I might tour the local villages on a bike, use a taxi or a bus (Buonconvento is a great visit) or tour the museums, duomo etc if the weather is not so good. Florence, of course, offers 3 or 4 days interest indoor etc.

But enough about Italy, what do you like to do on holiday apart from look at vistas?

Jean

I can appreciate the difficulties of traveling so far, the cost of air tickets, etc. I get that. I "only" have to travel from Los Angeles, but I do have to deal with a shortage of non-stop flights to/from most airports in Italy, so the planning isn't simple for me either. In our earlier trips, decades ago, we had very tight budgets which also dictated what was possible... and we had many fewer days than what you're contemplating.

But it mostly comes down to the style of touring you prefer. I like to keep the distances short and the number of destinations (hotel changes) low to give me more time in each place. I don't like the itinerary to be entirely scheduled with no "down" time to deal with the unexpected. Bad weather can slow you down, people can tell you about some interesting things you didn't know about, things like car rental/return can take longer, trains can be delayed, etc. In a 3-week trip, you're going to have to deal with laundry a couple of times, either doing it yourself or using a laundry service. Three weeks of constant touring and sightseeing can also be tiring, to the point that having a long lunch with wine and people-watching on some charming piazza is more appealing than whatever's next on the itinerary.

Rather than finding websites that have sample itineraries (2 days here, 1 day there, etc.), you'd do better to do your own research about each place and decide for yourself how much time you need. Just keep in mind that there is no perfect itinerary, and you are going to "miss" many, many things no matter how you organize your days.

fernandoghiggi7025

Well, I assumed that every other day in Milano, Venice, Firenze and Rome, and the stopovers in Verona and Bologna would give me a good amount of local interaction with italian people hahah

Not going to rent car in Venice. One day (no overnight) in Bologna is in the itinerary. Padua, sadly isn’t, at least by now. Seems adorable, but I think I won’t be able to make it this time. Let’s see as I keep reworking the plan.

Glad for the Rome2Rio and ZTL tips.

Travel-wise, aside from the already mentioned vista sites (natural or city/architecture), walking in gardens, hiking, mountains, beaches, etc.: I do enjoy chilling, anywhere or in a good restaurant. I do like reading or watching something related to history/culture, só I enjoy places or museums related to history with guided visits or natural science spots. Even though I recognise it’s value, I’m not a big fan of looking (contemplate) work of art (paintings and alikes), so I keep an eye for it, but never spend too much time. Any suggestions are always welcome.

I see... justo to clarify, sometimes a written talk can “sound” diferent than it does on our head, I didn’t want to minimize any dificulties you also face in executing traveling plans. L.A. is also far from a lot of destinations (and a place I wish to visit in the following years, alongside the west coast, maybe with yosemite or the grand canyon). I’m nothing but grateful about the toughts you are giving.

As for the style of touring, only from about 2 years ago I began to do these distant, lenghty and with lanned itinerary trips (did an Uruguay coast with Buenos Aires, and another in Mendoza-Santiago-Atacama); only been to Europe in 2014 for a study week in Coimbra togheter with a one week vacation in Lisbon. Aside from this, only more local or short trips with more focused goals.

But thinking about it, both in theory and looking back into it, I do think it’s quality over quantity, as in: it’s preferable to slow the pace down, have some flexibility for the unexpected, and have in mind that I can try to come back to go to the places left behind (better than go everywhere and fell like I couldn’t make the most the place because it was rushed).

Well, reading and replying to your insights is making me rethink portions of the itinerary (and help with the planning-anxiety, if this is a thing).

Probably going to sit down on the weekend to rework the itinerary, probably leaving the Dolomites aside for now (without sheding a tear), adding the 3 extra days in coutryside of Tuscany for flexibility, and Florence and/or Rome, as I keep studying more about what exactly do I want to see in each city.

Traveler_Nick

Mid October to mid November you need to think about the weather. If you want to go out in the countryside or up into the mountains I'd suggest playing it by ear. Don't commit NOW. Even the week before won't be safe. Weather can change pretty quickly.


In the various cities if it rains no big deal. But if you go up the mountains and it's foggy it's likely a wasted day.