With the coming in force of the new Trenitalia schedules effective December 13, 2009, the gap between the most expensive trains (the "AV") and the cheapest (and slowest) trains (the "regionale") has widened even more. Indeed, while fares for the AV trains have all increased slightly over 10%, fares for the slower trains (including the Intercity ("IC" trains) have remained the same as before.

The AV trains now provide even faster service: e.g. Florence to Naples in an INCREDIBLE 3 hours; Rome to Venice in 3 hrs., 48 mins.; Venice to Florence in 2 hrs.; Florence to Bologna in an INCREDIBLE 37 minutes!!!

But this speed comes at a considerable cost.

Travellers open to "trading" speed for a much lower fare should consider travelling on an IC train (with automatically reserved seats) or (where available), even on a "regionale" train (where seats can never be reserved).

Also, all trains EXCEPT the "regionale" have 7 and 15-day advance purchase fares which yield discounts of 15% and 30%, respectively. Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to buy tickets on the Trenitalia website without a credit card issued by an Italian Bank (at least at present), making these promotional fares much less available to foreign tourists than was the "AMICA" fare for ES-City, IC, ICN and EXP trains which has now been DISCARDED.

Fares for the "regionale" trains, being already extremely cheap, are non-discountable.

Here are examples of the huge differences in fares which take effect 12/13/2009 (all fares quoted are unrestricted "base" fares):

Rome/Naples: AV-44 Euros; ES-32 Euros; IC-19.50 Euros; Reg-10.50 Euros

Naples/Venice: AV-117 Euros; IC-50 Euros

Naples/Florence: AV-71 Euros; IC-39 Euros

Rome/Florence: AV-44 Euros; IC-26.50 Euros; Reg-16.10 Euros

Rome/Venice: AV-73 Euros; IC-40.50 Euros

Florence/Venice: AV-42 Euros; IC-21.50 Euros

Venice/Milan: ES/City-30.50 Euros; Reg-14.50 Euros

Florence/Bologna: AV-24 Euros; IC-9.50 Euros

Bologna/Milan: AV-41 Euros; ES/City-25.70 Euros; IC-20 Euros

Bologna/Venice: AV-28 Euros; IC-14.50 Euros; Reg-8.90 Euros

NOTES

1. The AV trains (as well as the ES trains) are usually considered much "nicer" than the "regionale" and even some of the IC trains.

2. The IC trains make more stops than the AV trains, and travel on the slower rail lines. The "regionale" trains make the most stops.

3. MOST IC TRAINS NO LONGER STOP AT FLORENCE SANTA MARIA NOVELLA ("SMN") STATION. Passengers boarding or alighting in Florence on an IC train need to connect at Florence Rifredi Station to/from a "regionale" train for the short hop into/from SMN. This should be taken into consideration when judging the "trade offs" between the AV and the IC trains. Most AV and ES trains continue to stop at SMN, as do most "regionale" trains.

4. The AV trains don't stop at stations which are not on the high-speed line (e.g. Orvieto).

5. Seat reservations come AUTOMATIC with ticket purchase on ALL domestic trains EXCEPT the "regionale" trains, which are unreservable.

6. Ticket sales for all trains EXCEPT the "regionale" trains begin FOUR MONTHS in advance (not sooner). Many Italians buy these tickets two to four days prior to travel, or even just before departure (depending on the route) outside of busy travel periods.

7. There is usually no good reason to purchase tickets for "regionale" trains in advance. Most Italians buy them at station automated kiosks prior to departure (or the day beforehand). Nor is there a good reason to try to purchase them over the internet.

8. The requirement to "punch" ("validate") tickets for "regionale" trains in the little yellow machine by the rail track, CONTINUES. There is no requirement to "punch" tickets for trains with automatic seat reservations (but there is no penalty to do so anyway).

9. Don't board a higher category train with a ticket for a lower category train. You'll be subject to a fine (plus difference in fare).

10. You can never "break" a trip on any train EXCEPT the "regionale" trains, which continue to allow "stopovers" according to tariff rules.


Study the schedules carefully to see ALL your travel options, and how much you might be able to save by "trading down" to a slower train.


www.ferroviedellostato.it

Many thanks for the continuous update, it's most helpful for my planning of group travelling in coming March.

Couple questions: The 7 & 15 days advance purchase discount is automatically applied or needed to be asked for? Is their any limit of available seats? As I will be in Italy next month, shall I buy the tickets then or wait till March?

The 10% group discount still applied plus advance discount?

Judy:

1. You must specifically ask for ANY fare discount!!!! This includes both the 15% and the 30% promotional fares.

2. Seats for the 15% and the 30% promotional fares are CAPACITY CONTROLLED. They may not necessarily be available for the trains selected. The sooner you book, the greater the odds of obtaining these discounts. You MAY book UP TO FOUR MONTHS in advance (but NOT more than four months in advance), and you MUST book at least 7 or 15 days beforehand, as the case may be.

3. I don't believe that any other discounts can be aggregated to the 15% and 30% promotional fares (but I could be incorrect, so you should ask when buying the tickets).

4. CAREFULLY STUDY THE RULES AND RESTRICTIONS associated with these promotional tickets, which have now become even more stringent:

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

5. Also check whether any other discounts might apply to your travel plans:

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

Group discounts are based on day of travel and the number in the group.

Ordinary Groups offer
The Ordinary Groups offer entitles holders to a reduction that differs according to the numbers in the Group.
In particular for journeys on the Espressi (Express), IC, ICN, ES* City, ES*, AV trains, or in couchette or wagon lits carriages, the following reduction applies:


10% in first and second class for journeys made by from 10 to 49 paying persons from Friday to Sunday

20% for the other days of the week;


10% in first and second class for journeys made from 50 and more paying persons from Friday to Sunday
30% for the other days of the week.
Place booking is compulsory and free.

Thanks so much for so much helpful information.

Many many thanks for the detailed replies, it makes the planning so much easier.

The rules and regulations for the 15% and 30% discounts are quite clear:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

It says in the first paragraph that they *cannot* be added to other discounts.

GAC, even we shall not visit Italy in 2010, I would like to thank you for the detailed info. Great and helpful work!

We were in North Italy in 2008 and in Sicily this year, both times by train. The trains are clean, in time, easy to use; we were very happy that we did not rent a car. The info you give now will help many persons to plan their next trips to Italy.

A few more comments about the new fares:

1. Fares for "regionale" trains are shown on the website no more than SEVEN DAYS before scheduled departure date, which is the limit for internet sales of these tickets. Simply choose tomorrow's date for a fare quote for these trains. On all other trains, fare quotes are posted up to FOUR MONTHS in advance of travel date, which is the limit for internet sales. This is the reason so many people complain that they can't find fare quotes on the Trenitalia website.

2. It is sometimes possible to reach your destination by taking one or more lower priced "regionale" trains, instead of a much more expensive AV or ES train. Naturally, this usually results in significantly additional time. Perhaps the best example is between Florence and Naples. Travelling by direct AV train (3 hours) costs 71 Euros in second class. Taking a "regionale" train to Rome, then another to Naples (or Florence) adds up to 26.60 Euros. (However, this results in over six hours on the train, plus connection time). You can also save money between many city pairs by taking an IC rather than an AV train, as is shown in my original posting above.

3. Up until nearly one year ago, seats on IC, ICN and EXP trains were optional. Tickets for these trains would be sold regardless of the number of open seats. This often resulted in overcrowding on IC trains on such popular routes as Milano/Venezia, where passengers (especially in second class) would stand for at least part of the trip. Conditions got so extreme during July and August on some routes that it was not uncommon for passengers to hurl their luggage out the train window (and at rare times, even themselves). NOW, seats on ALL DOMESTIC trains EXCEPT the "regionale" trains are automatically reserved concurrent with ticket purchase. So there is no risk of standing, EXCEPT on "regionale" trains (which have runs up to five hours; e.g. Milano/Ancona and Bologna/Brennero). So, your comment about buying a first class ticket during busy travel periods is worth considering IF you're taking a "regionale" train on a trip exceeding 30 minutes (and IF the "regionale" train has a first class railcar, which is NOT always the case). Candidly, first class would make sense if your trip on a "regionale" train exceeded three hours, because second class seats on these trains are non-pivoting and not terribly comfortable, whereas first class seats are noticeably more comfortable.

4. I failed to mention in my posting above that the 15% and 30% advance-purchase promotional fares are NOT combinable with other discounts, and are CAPACITY CONTROLLED, meaning that seats at the discount may not be available when requested.

5. Tickets for the "regionale" trains are NON-DISCOUNTABLE (apart from the 50% savings for children under 12 and free travel for toddlers under 4).

Here's how to find cheaper solutions on the Trenitalia website:

When you bring up the listing of trains between two cities, click on the red icon "all solutions" at the bottom left of the screen. This will list solutions which include a connection somewhere en-route between your point of origin and your destination. At times, these solutions can be much cheaper than taking a direct train.

Perhaps the best example is between Florence and Bologna. Most direct trains are the AV Frecciarossa. They take an incredible 37 minutes (mainly using tunnels), but cost a CONFISCATORY 24 Euros (in second class). That's 65 cents per minute! Trenitalia is really putting its hand in your pocket!

There are a few IC trains on this route, which cost 9.50 Euros, but they take you to Firenze Rifredi Station, which is inconvenient to the main Santa Maria Novella Station, and require a connection to a local "regionale" train for the last leg to or from SMN.

Now, if you click on the icon "all solutions", you will see that you can take TWO "regionale" trains (connecting at Prato Centrale), which cost a mere 5.40 Euros. Travel time is one hour, 43 minutes (variable), but the fare is nearly ONE FIFTH that of the AV train, which takes 37 minutes!!! Moreover, you can leave from SMN Station, and avoid connecting to an IC train at Rifredi.

Now, would the longer travel time and the (relative) inconvenience of having to connect at Prato Centrale justify a savings of 18.60 Euros (or 77.5%)? You be the judge. It's your money!!!

You've now learned one way to "beat the system" by advanced use of the Trenitalia website.