Kevin I'm still looking for any advice since that's is what this board is for. Not unasked for comments from 20 year old computer geeks. Perhaps you could share your vast experience in traveling w/children ?? I thought not... It is never too early to start traveling w/kids. I will be going to Paris w/my then 9 month old in March. I've already been there & done all the touristy stuff. We are just renting a flat & make an attempt to be a local for a few weeks. We are taking planning on buying most necessities when we arrive. I highly suggest you check out flats & apartments. Since the hotel rooms seem to be (mostly) very small & you will need someplace to have some downtime. Best of luck & don't forget the toys. Many prior posts are on here if you look under baby or infant I am sure that can give expert advise on traveling w/an infant. Enjoy !!

Why travel with an infant? Well, perhaps because his family would like to meet him. <BR><BR>Remember that not everyone travels merely to see sights, some travel to visit other PEOPLE, strange as that concept may seem. I'm not going to ask 30 people to make the trip to see the baby when I can much more easily take the baby to meet them. Lots of these friends and relatives are elderly, and might never have the pleasure of knowing my son if I had waited until he was older to take him with me.<BR><BR>BTW, Michelle, a &quot;cot&quot; is indeed a crib, though in a hotel setting it is more likely to be a folding play-yard model. A lightweight stroller is always known as a &quot;buggy&quot; -- if at all feasible, buy when you arrive. European buggies are highly superior to US-made compact strollers, almost always recline, and are not very expensive on their home turf. Take a $10 umbrella stroller to get through the outbound trip, then throw it away as soon as you can buy a proper buggy. With a good buggy, you can time museums to coincide with naps.<BR><BR>BTW, if applesauce is one of your baby's favorites, bring a large (plastic) jar with you; it's hard to find in Ireland and the UK. Also bring his usual OTC medicines; you don't want to be trying to find equivalents in a strange city. (Not to say the medicines are not available, just that you don't want to bother with shopping for them in an unfamiliar place, especially if the baby is unhappy.)

Since I have been referred to by name I feel compelled to reply.<BR><BR>To SA, how can I make sense of your post? You post like you put something in this thread before but scrolling up reveals nothing. Are you posting under multiple names?<BR><BR>My points revolve waround what is the in the best interest of the child NOT whether the parents get to go on a vacation. Understand?<BR><BR>Just because a 6 month old loves its parents and wants to be with its parents doers not neccessarily mean a trip to Europe is best for the child. Would you take a 6 month old on a roller coaster if you held it real tight and it &quot;wanted&quot; to be with you? Would you consider taking a 6 month old to a professional football game because it &quot;enjoys&quot; being with you? If your answer is yes then you can probably skip the rest of my post. I am not questioning the love of the parents for the child or vice versa. I am questioning what is APPROPRIATE for a six month old child.<BR><BR>At six months shouldn't there be a sense of security and continuity in the child's life? The child can't read or talk at this point so it is learning important but minute (sp?) things. Does being held by mom and dad in a walk through a church in Dublin aid the learning process at THIS POINT (not the future, mind you). Does the shifting to a new bed, environment and time zone not put stress on the baby? And what about the long and rigorous plane ride both ways. What stress does that place on the child?<BR><BR>The question about if the child gets sick you would bring them to that country's medical service. Don't you think the child's regular pediatrician would be a better person to render care than a new doctor in a foriegn country? I would prefer USA medical care to European every day of the week.<BR><BR>Again I don't discount the expense and effort to bring a baby to Europe. I do wonder if it is best at that time in a child's life. Whose interests are being served in the trip:the baby's or the parents or everyone's/<BR><BR>I am not sure I have every answer or am even correct. I don't think any of you either have all the answers. I just wanted to pose some questions/issues to think about. Every family has to make the decision for themselves.

Dawn- thanks for the support. We are very excited to go.<BR><BR>SA- we are looking into apartments/flats. They do sound like a good idea to me. Does anyone have any particularly family friendly ones they know of?<BR><BR>Ryn - thanks for the helpful post. We were thinking of getting a 'buggy' while over there. <BR><BR>Does anyone know if they have gently 'used' childrens shops in London? All I've been able to find online are used clothing shops. Where I live we have several chains (like Once Upon a Child) which sell used clothing and accessories like strollers. We would love to find one to get a 'buggy' from. <BR>

I have to say this. Our family has been on numerous trips to Europe, Hawaii and all over the USA. We live in the Chicago area. My wife travels three weeks out of four jobwise and wouldn't consider leaving one of the children home. As earlier I posted that we have traveled with babies, for the most part they adapt wellwhy not let everyone who wants to take a trip let them do it their own way. If you have nothing positive to add to someones inquiry why bother. Are you the official baby protector? My only question mark. once again enjoy.

I say amen to Ryn's post! When you've got an international family, travel with your kids is just a part of life. <BR><BR>Michelle, you will have a great trip. We travelled to the UK with our son at 6.5 months, again when he was 19 months and we'll go next October when he's 3.5 and our second one is 12 months. We go not because we MUST have a vacation, but to visit older relatives who aren't able to travel here to meet us. Although, I'd take my kids even if there weren't older relatives to visit!<BR><BR>Here are some things that worked for us during the trips:<BR>-Definitely take the pack n play! Nothing like having a familiar place for your baby to sleep.<BR>-We took our own formula in several different forms. Ready to feed for use on the plane or when we were driving around. Powdered packets for at the relatives' homes.<BR>-We took both a Graco stroller (big style, not an umbrella one) and a baby backpack. We used both. I recommend actually taking the stroller with you as opposed to buying there. We had to run thru airports several times and the stroller helped us move along. You can also load stuff on it! It was good for letting our son nap when we out and about. If you are thinking about a child carrier/backpack, invest in a good one. Ours is a Kelty and it's awesome. I don't recommend the backpack stroller combo--I've heard nightmares about their comfort.<BR>-We have always purchased a separate seat on the airplane. Everyone was more comfortable that way and he slept. You might want to ask the airline about the &quot;cots&quot; on the flight. We were told we'd have one of these and I kid you not, it was a cardboard box that sat on the floor--no padding or anything! Glad we had the carseat. We experienced no crying at all. Several people around us commented when we landed that they didn't know there was a baby on the flight. We made sure that if he was awake, we entertained him so he wouldn't disturb anyone.<BR>-We took some babyfood and cereal with us and then tried some of the local baby cuisine. Lancashire Hot Pot baby food--who knew?<BR>-Take enough diapers/wipes to get you started and then buy there. They definitely have Pampers in the UK.<BR>-As for accomodations, we've stayed with relatives, in B&amp;Bs and in hotels. I personally like the hotels the best, especially Holiday Inn Express. We would have never stayed somewhere like this pre-kids, but the convenience is priceless! In the B&amp;Bs, I was always worried the baby would make noise and wake someone up. He never did cry or anything, but I was so worried about it, I couldn't relax. It was much better in the hotels where soundproofing seemed to be better and there were lots of other families.<BR>-Definitely check on B&amp;B's acceptance of kids ahead of time. We found many didn't accept kids.<BR>-Be prepared to do totally different types of activities with a baby. We don't go to museums or other places where they would be forced to be silent. Now we spend more time with family and friends, visit parks, go for hikes, spend a lot of time walking in towns and cities just enjoying the scenery.<BR>-Definitely take some basic cold medicines with you. Of course, they have them there, but you might need them handy.<BR><BR>I was really nervous before we went for the first time, but it was great. We were lucky--our son seemed to have no problem with the time change (he napped most of the first day and then was right on the UK timezone and followed his normal schedule) and was his normal self. And I always found people on airplanes to be really gracious as opposed to grumpy about the fact that we had a baby with us. Just relax, be flexible and enjoy!

Travel mom- thanks for your excellent insights. Having never traveled with a stroller before, can you take the full sized one (or any for that matter) to the gate and check it there (even with all the new security stuff since 9/11?) Does it then count as one of your pieces of luggage, and is it at the gate agian when you deplane? We don't plan on doing museums and such - we are much more the outdoorsy type anyway, so I agree with doing more of that with a baby. <BR><BR>Thanks again to everyone for their helpful advice!

Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't take my kids on a trip to europe. But,it depends on the kids. If your child is calm,sleeps well,not too whiney,I would do it. you know your kids and their temperment. Have fun!

Yes, you can gate-check a full-sized stroller; I would advise removing any accessory pieces (such as the hood &amp; front bar) and putting them in your checked luggage. Also, putting a bungy cord around the stroller when you fold it on the jetway may save you some grief, ground crews will just force a stroller shut any old way if it comes unfolded during handling, which might damage it.<BR><BR>I still advise a buggy as opposed to a full-sized US stroller. The reason for this is that when the child is not in it, the stroller must be transported. A big US stroller will generally not fit in the boot of the avg. UK/Eire rental car, and will be very difficult to maneuver on trains and busses in cities. (Most Tube stations in London still do not have elevators, BTW.)<BR><BR>I have a Maclaren Vogue, which I can easily carry w/ one hand; it weighs 9 lbs, has 6 in. tires, thickly padded washable upholstery, a big hood and raincover, a full recline, a footrest, a basket and back pocket, and a 5 pt. safety harness. Folded, it measures 10&quot; x 10&quot; x 41&quot; You can certainly buy them in the US, but they are 60% less expensive bought in Europe, even with the VAT. Lower-priced buggies will usually have steel frames rather than aluminum, but will still fold small.<BR>For an idea of selection, take a look at twoleftfeet.co.uk; they have a big variety on their site.<BR><BR>There are used nursery-goods shops in the US and Ireland, but I've never encountered any that were part of a chain. I've most commonly seen them on the high street in working-class neighborhoods. You might try going out on Google's UK site; you may well be able to find some leads there.<BR><BR>As in the US, the really big baby stores are in the suburbs, they do have Toys r' Us and Babies r' Us, with different stock than in the US. The store with the most high-street branches is Mothercare; they tend to push their house brands of everything, though they are pretty good quality. If you are looking for a dealer (&quot;stockist&quot in the UK, be sure you know your counties, that is how all of the directories are set up; you'll need to know if you want Herts or Kent, for instance.

Correction to above: I meant UK and Ireland, of course.<BR><BR>Incidentally, you'll love baby shopping in Europe; great quality and selection, and they specialize in things that fold down small. Also, children's clothing is one of the few things exempt from VAT.

Most of this sounds like great advice. I'm going to be in a similar situation, so any other information would be great!

Okay, here is my view. Denial seems to be more than a river in Egypt. Kevin comments seem to warrant a response even if you disagree. Hmmmmm. I have a hard time figuring out this board.

I have friends who traveled with 7 month old triplets! He carried 2 , 1 front, 1 back., she carried one. In UK and Ireland they have diapers, food and anything else you might want or think you need!<BR><BR>Had a great time on the plane between the crew and other passengers ohing and ahing ...they got lots of sleep. <BR><BR>The boys are now 6 and have been to 7 countries! They were not the least bit impressed with Cinderella's castle in Orlando,,,Jon said it wasn't nearly as neat as Neuschwanstein!

ttt for kathy99

A 7 month old would be far more stressed to be left at home for 2 weeks than to go on a trip with his parents, in my opinion. As far as time change, he won't have a watch and I imagine he'll sleep when he's tired just like he does at home. Just follow his lead and don't push so much into one day that you have an unhappy child. If he has a favorite blankie or toy hold on to it for dear life and do not leave it on the plane or in a hotel.

Kevin needs a hobby.

While I wouldn't call Ireland a child-centered culture (children are not worshipped in Ireland as they are in America--I'm sitting back and waiting for the hits to come), it is a great place to travel with children, as many of the sites are outdoors, and there are plenty of casual places to eat.

And traveling with a kid before they can walk is a great idea. I don't have kids, but my brother stopped traveling with his kids between the ages of 2 and 5 because it's too difficult, but took them all over the world before they were a year old.

Don't quite understand Kevin's rant about safety. How are kids any less safe while traveling? They're probably more safe because their parents don't have the same stressed and distractions as they do at home.

I think Michelle's trip has already passed - but the thread still seems to be active so I'll throw in my 2 cents as a travelling mom.

We have a 2 year old who has been travelling with us since she was about a month old. We live in Europe, and lo and behold (Kevin!) they have babies over here, too, and they travel!

We've also flown back to the US with her, as hyave several friends with their tots and babies (military families) - the flights are long but I have yet to hear a kid scream for hours. (It just seems like it during the 5 minutes the kid's letting loose!)

No problems with illnesses. In fact, local play groups, play grounds, etc offer just as many yummy germs as airplanes.

I don't think you need to weigh yourself down with excess baggage in the form of play-yards, longterm diaper and feeding supplies, and both a big stroller and a backpack.

So far, every hotel, B&amp;B, guesthouse, etc we have stayed in has had a play-yard type structure for our kid. We've always been able to find diapers and food to please her (even, gak, accidently REINDEER in Norway!). We carry enough of everything for the travel day, and 36 hours after that - we assume we can shop otherwise (if you are arriving on a Saturday night, pack 1 extra day of stuff).

A baby-backpack is much more convenient than a stroller in almost all cases, except naptime. If your baby is a regular napper, an umbrella stroller is probably needed, but consider picking up a cheap one at your destination. If you can't live without the 'big' stroller, then ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

We have found that self-catering gives us the best options, and always try to have at least a bedroom separate from the rest of the place. You can find this cheap in some countries (Germany, Austria, and Switzerland seem to have ample inexpensive options), pricey in others (Norway), but it usually ends up saving money over the whole family eating out, and saving frustration as well - the baby can sleep, mom &amp; dad can eat and socialize without having to whisper.

We also like to spend a few nights in one place, rather than moving every day - it makes things less hectic and you always have a place to go back to for napping, regrouping, and just playing.


For activities - with a non-walker, it is really pretty easy, you just take them where you want them to go - but once our daughter was walking it was a whole new ball game. She has gone in museums, restaurants, etc, but we always try to engage her in the activity as best we can, and just stay willing to tag team or leave if things go bad. Parks are always a winner - we try to locate one quickly when we arrive somewhere.

The comments some posters have had about really young kids not getting anything out of travelling are just plain wrong, in my opinion. My kid can sleep anywhere, will try to eat anything, is very curious and adapts well to new situations. I know some of this is probably just her personality, but I am also equally sure that we've encouraged it by always taking her along. We do have to make adaptations - we don't force her into new schedules or anything - but I think that she figured out pretty early what matters (mom, dad) and what doesn't (same bed, same yard, same living room) and makes adjustments from there.

We always take a couple of favorite books and small toys, favorite bear. Keep it light for initial travel, then every now and then add another book or something small during the trip just for fun. But most of the time, if you are creative you can always find things to play with.

One last thing - try to include a couple of quickly drying clothing items in baby's wardrobe. Fleece, nylon, etc are great. Campmor.com and some other big outdoor retailers sell non-cotton overalls, pants, shirts for tots. When you cant count on having laundry facilities available, you need something that you can wash in the sink that you KNOW will dry overnight - if you are in a damp climate, cotton probably won't!

This has gotten long - sorry - just wanted to show support for travelling with young kids and offer our experience.
-Helen