TurnstileTraffic

Fodor's Wire recently pulled together a set of serious (and not so serious) "commandments" for dining out in Paris. Frequent visitors to Paris might balk at some of the generalizations but the list is meant in good fun. We've added after each "rule" a link to a great Paris dining thread. Bon Appetit!

Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/385clj

NeoPatrick

Very good. And like all good humor, it must all be related to the truth, which it certainly is.
I particularly like #5.

cigalechanta

I read it a minute ago. Very good, thanks.

Kate_W

I disagree with the suggestion in #2 that you should refer to women servers in restaurants under 50 as "madamoiselle". Under 30, maybe. But the French high priestess of etiquette and protocol in my office advised me (and other French friends have confirmed) that many French women over the age of 30 prefer to be addressed as "Madame" (otherwise, you're assuming that no one wanted to marry them). No Ms in France.

NeoPatrick

I agree with that. I used to think it would be a compliment to any woman to call her Madamoiselle, rather than Madame. But I have often had women -- much under 50 -- quickly correct me with a firm "Madame" when I address them that way.

PBProvence

I would add another one to the list....

If you decide not to dine at a restaurant where you have made a reservation, call to cancel ! Especially if you ever want to dine in that particular restaurant in the future.

TurnstileTraffic

Regarding Madamoiselle...

Is it safer to just address all women as "Madame"?

Mathieu

..except some women below a certain age prefer 'mademoiselle' and won't hesitate to tell you so if you address them as Madame.

I think 'madame' implies maturity and respect rather than denoting age. Without generalizing, my own experience has been that it depends on the status of the woman, in other words whther she is married or single.
Thats how it was explained to me by an attractive single female in her late thirties that I know well, and who wanted to be addressed as mademoiselle, when I would have used 'Madame' respectfully.

FainaAgain

I guess only people who went to Paris can understand the humor of this... sigh...

Michael

I knew a woman in her seventies who insisted that she was mademoiselle.

NeoPatrick

Speaking of reservations, I suppose we created a major faux pas. We had reservations at one small place. We arrived and they were about to seat us at a tiny table wedged between two other tiny tables. At the tables on both sides were two people (four all together) smoking at once and waving their cigarettes in the air. A quick glance at the tables told me neither couple had ordered any food yet and had just arrived. There was NO way we were sitting there. I very politely told the host we couldn't take the smoke. He shrugged his shoulders and walked away. We stood for a while thinking maybe he'd find another table -- but there clearly weren't any. Eventually we walked away. Was there another option or we were just regarded as silly Americans?

ira

Hi NP,

>Was there another option...

No.

The proprietor's thought was, "If you don't want to be subject to people who smoke, don't go where people smoke".

NeoPatrick

That's what I thought. The funny thing about it is, I'm really not a smoking "nazi". I rarely even think about it, and rarely does the smoking around me bother me, but when I was faced with having four cigarettes at once all within 2 feet of my face in a very enclosed space for an entire meal, I just drew a line.

Kate_W

TurnstileTrafic:

I think it is a safer bet to refer to all women who appear to be 30 or older as "Madame" and those seeming to be under 30 as "Madamoiselle".

NeoPatrick:

Cigarette smoke in restaurants is just something we've had to get used to here in the last two years. I am a bit of a anti-smoking Nazi back home in North America, but I realised that that attitude wasn't going to work here. For a while, it was an emotionally difficult situation to deal with, because my mother died of lung cancer last spring (after a sudden illness); she had been a smoker for 30 years and then had stopped. It felt like every time we walked into a smoky restaurant, I was reminded of the circumstances of her death. We didn't eat out in restaurants much for about 4 months.

Although many restaurants have non-smoking sections, they are often: (a) relatively smoky anyway (because they're so close to the smoking section) or (b) located in the restaurant's equivalent of Siberia (beside the toilets, upstairs in a shabbily decorated annex instead of the charming main rooms below). We tried a few times when asked "fumeur or non-fumeur?" to say "moins fumeur" (less smoking - ie a table in the smoking section that's not very smoky), but no one got our joke. If we do get seated at a non-smoking table in Siberia, we politely and firmly ask for another table (pointing to one we like) - and usually haven't had a problem.

beaupeep

I am an anti-smoking nazi and don't apologize for it at all. When I was in my early 20's (30 years ago), I was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma and believe me, the treatment for cancer is no day at the beach. It left me with asthma but the bottom line is I am sick and tired of being forced to try and breathe in restaurants. To those who say I should stay home, why? Why should I? It's the smokers' turn to have to put up with the non-smokers rights.

And as for the madame/mademoiselle thing? I was SOOOO sad the first time someone called me madame. But at least I made it until almost 40 before it happened!

Anneparis

About #6 : "I am full" does exist in French : just say "Je suis rassasié(e)" or (more familiar) "je n'en peux plus".

ira

>And as for the madame/mademoiselle thing? I was SOOOO sad the first time someone called me madame. <

How about when your student's parents start calling you "sir"?

Worse, when they tell you that they took the course from you.