The French are getting a bad rap!
Jan 26th, 2005, 11:47 PM
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The French are getting a bad rap!
Is it me or am I the only one has not come across a rude French person? I'm tired of hearing friends and relatives say things such as they were reduced to tears at some store where the clerk was nasty them! Or the butcher wouldn't even acknowledge them. Which France are they in? I have been treated very well in all areas of the country--and particularly in Paris!! They've gone out of their way to assist my husband and myself and my french is weak believe me.
Just indulge me please in this quick story. Joe and I were slowly desending down from the abby at the top of Mont St. Michel. It was a blistering hot day and my asthma was bothereing me, so I was ecstatic to see a Coke machine to my left! Ahh ,Joe, I say I'd love a coke [bear with me here]. So I attempt an easy manuver called "turning to the left" and promptly twisted my left ankle on the little sliced out section of those stony little streets. I whirled around and landed with a lond crunch squarly on my right knee. The pain was
unbelievable--I mean searing - and I just couldn't move no matter how Poor Joe tryed to help. Well within SECONDS the french shop owner's brought me a stool to sit on asked me if I needed anything, brought me Ice--couldn't have been more wonderful. The same thing in the ambulance --the kid in the back with me insisted on practising his english on me and I wanted to review my weak french on him, but I was in agony so I backed off. He very sweetly chatted on trying to talk Joe and I into buying a stone Norman farm house! I was getting pretty caught up in the idea but the look on Joe's face, sheer panic, made me squlech the idea for then.Actually we would be at the tiny little hospital soon and I was getting rather panicked.No reason to-- the entire E.R. and X-ray staff were the kindest most sensitive people I'd ever met.They took great care of me when I returned to the hotel a few hours later. And my hospital bill=25.00!!
Have never met a rudie in Paris either-- just kind ,helpful people who were perfectly willing to speak english to me if they heard my fumbling french.I read 3 books recently--Almost French, French Toast and the funniest one yet Savoir Flair,by Polly Platt. She gives the best insights about the French, especially the Parians whom I adore.They can't help if they're cultured and like to dress nicely to go to the grocery stoor! A little style in the street never hurt anyone!
Mai Oui?
Has someone met the "Sterotypical'' rude French?' If so under what circumstances? I'm not saying they don't exist-- it's just that so many other stories I've heard just sound a little exagerated as if they're are trying to perpetuate the rude Parisian myth!!I can't help it --I think the french are gettin a bum rap! What say you dear Foderites? Remember, all the rudies are with me here in N.J.!!!
Just indulge me please in this quick story. Joe and I were slowly desending down from the abby at the top of Mont St. Michel. It was a blistering hot day and my asthma was bothereing me, so I was ecstatic to see a Coke machine to my left! Ahh ,Joe, I say I'd love a coke [bear with me here]. So I attempt an easy manuver called "turning to the left" and promptly twisted my left ankle on the little sliced out section of those stony little streets. I whirled around and landed with a lond crunch squarly on my right knee. The pain was
unbelievable--I mean searing - and I just couldn't move no matter how Poor Joe tryed to help. Well within SECONDS the french shop owner's brought me a stool to sit on asked me if I needed anything, brought me Ice--couldn't have been more wonderful. The same thing in the ambulance --the kid in the back with me insisted on practising his english on me and I wanted to review my weak french on him, but I was in agony so I backed off. He very sweetly chatted on trying to talk Joe and I into buying a stone Norman farm house! I was getting pretty caught up in the idea but the look on Joe's face, sheer panic, made me squlech the idea for then.Actually we would be at the tiny little hospital soon and I was getting rather panicked.No reason to-- the entire E.R. and X-ray staff were the kindest most sensitive people I'd ever met.They took great care of me when I returned to the hotel a few hours later. And my hospital bill=25.00!!
Have never met a rudie in Paris either-- just kind ,helpful people who were perfectly willing to speak english to me if they heard my fumbling french.I read 3 books recently--Almost French, French Toast and the funniest one yet Savoir Flair,by Polly Platt. She gives the best insights about the French, especially the Parians whom I adore.They can't help if they're cultured and like to dress nicely to go to the grocery stoor! A little style in the street never hurt anyone!
Mai Oui?
Has someone met the "Sterotypical'' rude French?' If so under what circumstances? I'm not saying they don't exist-- it's just that so many other stories I've heard just sound a little exagerated as if they're are trying to perpetuate the rude Parisian myth!!I can't help it --I think the french are gettin a bum rap! What say you dear Foderites? Remember, all the rudies are with me here in N.J.!!!
Jan 27th, 2005, 12:33 AM
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I know someone who is a native French speaker (Quebecois) with family from Corsica. He's visited Paris many times. He says that it's true that a couple decades ago, this stereotype was true, and he personally witnessed English speakers being treated badly. But he says things have changed, they know that tourism is important, and it's just not the case anymore.
To a certain extent, any bad event will be random. If, hypothetically, 1% of French sales staff are rude, and someone meets a representative of that group first thing in Paris, then I suspect that will color the rest of their trip.
My experience with Paris customer service was mostly positive, except for the shortchanging waiter and the amorous waiter. Then there were the bracelet guys, but that's a scam issue rather than customer service.
To a certain extent, any bad event will be random. If, hypothetically, 1% of French sales staff are rude, and someone meets a representative of that group first thing in Paris, then I suspect that will color the rest of their trip.
My experience with Paris customer service was mostly positive, except for the shortchanging waiter and the amorous waiter. Then there were the bracelet guys, but that's a scam issue rather than customer service.
Jan 27th, 2005, 01:04 AM
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In over 40 years of travelling to France several times a year, I've yet to encounter a single example of rudeness in normal visitor encounters (which is not to say the French, when you get to know them better, aren't as capable of being unpleasant as anyone else). Or to hear of rudeness from anyone I trust
HOWEVER, many French people have low tolerance of stupidity - especially self-important stupidity - in others. And many see no reason to disguise this, even in circumstances where the phoney "customer service" fad might lead more servile people to keep quiet and hope for a tip.
It's a near-infallible rule that people who claim to have been maltreated by the French are themselves insensitive, arrogant boors.
HOWEVER, many French people have low tolerance of stupidity - especially self-important stupidity - in others. And many see no reason to disguise this, even in circumstances where the phoney "customer service" fad might lead more servile people to keep quiet and hope for a tip.
It's a near-infallible rule that people who claim to have been maltreated by the French are themselves insensitive, arrogant boors.
Jan 27th, 2005, 01:28 AM
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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a doctor in the UK.
When I told him I lived in France, he launched into this tirade about how awful the French people are, how rude they are, and how badly he was treated when holidaying in the South of France many years ago.
He then went on to explain that while there, he went to the butchers to buy a cut of meat for dinner, and the butcher had the "nerve" to try and tell him how to cook it! The doctor took this as proof of the French arrogance and condescending attitude towards British people: he thought the butcher was implying that he didn't know how to cook and was highly insulted.
I tried to explain to him that it was nothing to do with him being British, that French butchers always give you tips on how best to prepare the meat they sell, even holding out different cuts of raw meat for you to inspect or smell. It's one of the joys of shopping in France, in my opinion at least. But no, this doctor simply saw it as proof that the French are anti-English.
He then went on to tell another story about how a waiter "deliberately" refused to understand his accent when asking for a Cointreau after a meal, and wouldn't bring him the drink, and then had the "nerve" to speak to him in incomprehensible French.
I suggested that perhaps the waiter had been trying to explain that they didn't have Cointreau (some restaurants only have a wine/beer licence) but there was no convincing him.
Some people are so paranoid or over-sensitive, or even just so keen to have their misconceptions confirmed that they'll twist anything to suit their preconceived ideas.
When I told him I lived in France, he launched into this tirade about how awful the French people are, how rude they are, and how badly he was treated when holidaying in the South of France many years ago.
He then went on to explain that while there, he went to the butchers to buy a cut of meat for dinner, and the butcher had the "nerve" to try and tell him how to cook it! The doctor took this as proof of the French arrogance and condescending attitude towards British people: he thought the butcher was implying that he didn't know how to cook and was highly insulted.
I tried to explain to him that it was nothing to do with him being British, that French butchers always give you tips on how best to prepare the meat they sell, even holding out different cuts of raw meat for you to inspect or smell. It's one of the joys of shopping in France, in my opinion at least. But no, this doctor simply saw it as proof that the French are anti-English.
He then went on to tell another story about how a waiter "deliberately" refused to understand his accent when asking for a Cointreau after a meal, and wouldn't bring him the drink, and then had the "nerve" to speak to him in incomprehensible French.
I suggested that perhaps the waiter had been trying to explain that they didn't have Cointreau (some restaurants only have a wine/beer licence) but there was no convincing him.
Some people are so paranoid or over-sensitive, or even just so keen to have their misconceptions confirmed that they'll twist anything to suit their preconceived ideas.
Jan 27th, 2005, 02:15 AM
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Times have changed too. I first went to Paris in 1963, when the political situation was by no means calm, to put it mildly, and in a hot August when most Parisians were out of town, anyone who had to stay and work might be forgiven for a bit of grumpiness. Then and later in the 60s (particularly during les événements in 1968), there was a marked difference between Parisians and people elsewhere in France.
Jan 27th, 2005, 02:20 AM
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The silence from the usual chorus of Fodorite ultra-nationalist posters on this issue is absolutely deafening.
What is unfortunate is the probable number of people who read the "staff was rude" posts here and buy into them/
What is unfortunate is the probable number of people who read the "staff was rude" posts here and buy into them/
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:03 AM
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Hi lexie,
I was in Paris in 1991, and I had really liked the people. To me, Parisians were like New Yorkers (where I grew up). Not rude, but not small-town friendly, if that makes sense. They'd help if you asked, otherwise, they left you alone (I think this is why some people think French waiters are rude).
I try to dispel the stereotype any chance I get!
Karen
I was in Paris in 1991, and I had really liked the people. To me, Parisians were like New Yorkers (where I grew up). Not rude, but not small-town friendly, if that makes sense. They'd help if you asked, otherwise, they left you alone (I think this is why some people think French waiters are rude).
I try to dispel the stereotype any chance I get!
Karen
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:20 AM
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Sorry, but I must disagree. I can only speak from personal experience but after visiting France, the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and the Czech Republic, I can honestly say the French were without a doubt by far the rudest of any country we visited.
Allow me to tell you a quick story. We were travelling with my Mother In Law who likes the safe feeling of travellers checks. Every morning we would stop at a little bank near our hotel where she would exchance enough travellers checks into cash for the day. They were snotty from day one but by day three it went from bad to worse. The cashier waited on her customers till my Mother In Law reached her turn in line and then said something in a very rude fashion, slammed her little "use other window" sign up, then proceeded to stand right there and light up a cigarette and blow smoke our way. Feel the French love...
We would ask for directions and were pointed in the exact opposite direction we were suppossed to go. This happened often enough that I started asking two different people the same question and would wait till I got the same answer twice.
Rude subway attendents, noxious smelling passengers. The list goes on and on.
Don't misunderstand, I loved Paris. I believe it's one of the most beautiful cities I have ever seen. I could spend a month in the Musee d' Orsay alone, was amazed by the Eiffel Tower at night, awestruck by the splendor of Notre Dame, etc. But in our case the sterotypical rude Frenchman (or woman) was alive and well.
Cheers, the turnip
Allow me to tell you a quick story. We were travelling with my Mother In Law who likes the safe feeling of travellers checks. Every morning we would stop at a little bank near our hotel where she would exchance enough travellers checks into cash for the day. They were snotty from day one but by day three it went from bad to worse. The cashier waited on her customers till my Mother In Law reached her turn in line and then said something in a very rude fashion, slammed her little "use other window" sign up, then proceeded to stand right there and light up a cigarette and blow smoke our way. Feel the French love...
We would ask for directions and were pointed in the exact opposite direction we were suppossed to go. This happened often enough that I started asking two different people the same question and would wait till I got the same answer twice.
Rude subway attendents, noxious smelling passengers. The list goes on and on.
Don't misunderstand, I loved Paris. I believe it's one of the most beautiful cities I have ever seen. I could spend a month in the Musee d' Orsay alone, was amazed by the Eiffel Tower at night, awestruck by the splendor of Notre Dame, etc. But in our case the sterotypical rude Frenchman (or woman) was alive and well.
Cheers, the turnip
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:22 AM
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I was in Paris last week, and as I noted in my trip report, we never met a rude person. When I came home and told that to my friends, they did not believe me. Of course, these non-believers have never been to France. Isn't it funny how people who don't travel think they know so much??
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:24 AM
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I have a ton of friends who chastized me for going to France the last couple years. They rant and rave about the horribly rude French who all hate us. But all these people have one thing in common. None of them have ever been to France.
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:27 AM
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I, also, have seen a major change in the attitude of Parisians to foreign visitors.
On my early visits, in the 60's, I found a certain coldness. By 2000, I found Parisians rather friendly, even outgoing.
On my early visits, in the 60's, I found a certain coldness. By 2000, I found Parisians rather friendly, even outgoing.
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:40 AM
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P_M, we were posting together. We must have the same friends.
The butcher story above reminds me of a friend who was also a travel agent and used to rant at us for going to France. He once told me about the horribly rude Parisian waiter who walked away from him and refused to serve him anymore, when all he did was tell the waiter that the red wine from the cellar was too cold and should always be served room temperature. A French waiter taking offence at a polyester clad American tourist telling HIM how to serve wine. Imagine that!!!
The butcher story above reminds me of a friend who was also a travel agent and used to rant at us for going to France. He once told me about the horribly rude Parisian waiter who walked away from him and refused to serve him anymore, when all he did was tell the waiter that the red wine from the cellar was too cold and should always be served room temperature. A French waiter taking offence at a polyester clad American tourist telling HIM how to serve wine. Imagine that!!!
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:43 AM
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I have traveled to Paris since the early 1990's. The French attitude was already changed from bad to good by then from what I read here. I must admit that within 13 years of random visits, I have encountered about two unpleasant Parisians-not rude. One was cantankerous and the other, a young guy who looked well-educated refused to speak English (even after asking him in French if he spoke English). Whatever their reasons I took it as one-offs because the rest of the Parisians have been welcoming. Going back to that silly guy who probably was just embarrassed to speak English, on the other hand, I met a Parisienne who did not speak English. And she did her best to give me directions.
Just have to say that to me you can find 'rude people' everywhere and not only in France. I encounter more rude people at home than I ever did in my visits to France.
Just have to say that to me you can find 'rude people' everywhere and not only in France. I encounter more rude people at home than I ever did in my visits to France.
Jan 27th, 2005, 04:45 AM
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Our experiences parallel those cited. My high-school French brings smiles, but the Frenchmen we have met know that we are at least trying to bridge some unseen gap.
Once, while at Pere LaChaise Cemetery in Paris, a Frenchman took us on a brief tour of the more prominent graves after seeing us struggle with the little map we had. He introduced himself at the end, raised his hat, and disappeared.
But, on another trip, my wife and daughters had a desperate need to use a country gasoline station's restroom. I had no need to buy gas, so bought none. Not knowing the local custom that either pay one way or the other, we were surprised when the station's lady owner set her big German shepherd dog on my womenfolk. Almost scared the **** out of them. Live and learn.
Once, while at Pere LaChaise Cemetery in Paris, a Frenchman took us on a brief tour of the more prominent graves after seeing us struggle with the little map we had. He introduced himself at the end, raised his hat, and disappeared.
But, on another trip, my wife and daughters had a desperate need to use a country gasoline station's restroom. I had no need to buy gas, so bought none. Not knowing the local custom that either pay one way or the other, we were surprised when the station's lady owner set her big German shepherd dog on my womenfolk. Almost scared the **** out of them. Live and learn.
Jan 27th, 2005, 05:04 AM
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Anyone who really cares to understand the behavior of a different culture, in this case France, should read either or both books:
Savoir Flair; French or Foe - by Polly Platt
Culture Shock-France - Sally A. Taylor
We really do live in a paradigm and it can be very illuminating to learn the cultural roots to another's behavior.
For instance, it was explained that the French feel obligated to give an answer to a question; it is better (in their eyes) to give a <i>wrong</i> answer than to say they 'don't know'. Hence, sending someone off in the wrong direction.
The French love to help you but you must indicate that you need help; otherwise they would never insult you by suggesting you can't resolve your problem.
Many many more examples of the differences inherent to our and their behaviors are explained.
Savoir Flair; French or Foe - by Polly Platt
Culture Shock-France - Sally A. Taylor
We really do live in a paradigm and it can be very illuminating to learn the cultural roots to another's behavior.
For instance, it was explained that the French feel obligated to give an answer to a question; it is better (in their eyes) to give a <i>wrong</i> answer than to say they 'don't know'. Hence, sending someone off in the wrong direction.
The French love to help you but you must indicate that you need help; otherwise they would never insult you by suggesting you can't resolve your problem.
Many many more examples of the differences inherent to our and their behaviors are explained.
Jan 27th, 2005, 05:12 AM
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Yes, I have met rude French people. And Korean people. And Japanese people. And Italian people. And Canadian people. And Costa Rican people. And American people. And Mexican people. And German people. And Austrian people. And Panamanian people. And various peoples of the British Isles. Etc., etc., etc.
But I've met far more nice people in all of these places.
But I've met far more nice people in all of these places.
Jan 27th, 2005, 05:17 AM
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I have been to Paris every decade since the 60s - some decades several times. I have never understood the impression that many Americans seem to have that the French are rude or unfriendly. I try to convince friends, who would go to Paris except for their fear of the rude French, that they will love Paris and the French are friendly and helpful. Those who go are pleasantly surprised; those who don't remain ignorant. It is not unlikely that over years of travel to France or anyplace in the US or abroad, one will encounter brusque or even rude people from time to time but no more in France than anywhere else.
Jan 27th, 2005, 05:20 AM
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I was also in Paris last week and did not encounter a single rude person. Yes, there were people that were busy (swamped with customers) and yes, there were those who didn't understand a word we said, but none of them were rude. I'd agree with others who say that its just your typical "big city" environment. No one walks down the street and wishes everyone they see a "good morning" but that doesn't mean they are rude. The hotel staff was especially pleasent and accomodating even if we were saying in a tiny hotel far out of the "touristy" arr.
Jan 27th, 2005, 07:23 AM
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Wow- great stories! and observations everyone ! [Hope my spelling's a better now that I'm awake.]
Patrick, I've been through the same thing- the people groaning about the French haven't been there- or to Europe at all for that matter.Someone once said to me "France doesn't have police stations like we do here-- just one big Central thing!"What would possess someone to make a statement like that!!! Makes ya want to cry doesn't it? People refuse to believe me about my experiances which gets frustating.They insist we're only being treated well because we are tourists and they want our money.
True, one bad experiance can color the rest of the trip but I try advidly not to let that happen. I'm sure eventually I will run into someone rude eventually of course,it's just the sterotyping that drives us nuts!
Turnip, I do feel badly about your experiance though.Not pleasant.
Patrick, I've been through the same thing- the people groaning about the French haven't been there- or to Europe at all for that matter.Someone once said to me "France doesn't have police stations like we do here-- just one big Central thing!"What would possess someone to make a statement like that!!! Makes ya want to cry doesn't it? People refuse to believe me about my experiances which gets frustating.They insist we're only being treated well because we are tourists and they want our money.
True, one bad experiance can color the rest of the trip but I try advidly not to let that happen. I'm sure eventually I will run into someone rude eventually of course,it's just the sterotyping that drives us nuts!
Turnip, I do feel badly about your experiance though.Not pleasant.
