My husband and I are going to Europe for three weeks in July. We fly in and out of Paris and would love to see Italy, Spain and some of France too! We definitely want to hit San Sebastien, Florence, Venice and Rome. Is this impossible? Friends have suggested Busabout...any comments? Or is eurorail more effective? Any advice would be great!

I haven't done Busabout, but I wouldn't bother. The only way it will be better is in money terms. One bus every two days? A bus packed with smelly backpackers? Traffic snarls? Doesn't sound like a vacation. the Eurailpasses are pricey. But since you'll be in 3 adjoining countries, what about the new "selectpass"? Here's a link to the info if you aren't aware of it: http://www.railconnection.com/railpa...83320817122096

Karyn, <BR>That is a lot of ground you want to cover in 3 weeks - San Sebastian, Paris and Rome are pretty far away from each other! I suggest that you first draft an itinerary and then look for specific transportation point-to-point, in order to compare it to the price of an Eurail. Also, if you really want to see some of Spain, you might try to go to an area closer to the French border with frequent links (maybe Barcelona) instead of San Sebastian. The high-speed trains in France and Italy will be the most helpful for you, since you are covering great distances. There are no high-speed trains that connect Northern Spain - so you'll be out-of-luck getting to San Sebastian the fast way. Just remember that you have to pay a supplement to ride high-speed train with the Eurail.

karyn, Spain does not fit that itinerary, and certainly not San Sebastian. I would train from Paris to Nice and spend time on the Cote d'Azur. From there depends on your tastes. I would try to include 4 destinations in Italy but I am not sure Rome would be one of them. I would include the Cinque Terre coast, Tuscan hilltowns, Florence,and Venice. That is six great destinations in 3 weeks and will give you a real taste of southern Europe. Spain and Portugal is a seperate trip. Get a good map and you will see why.

Karyn, I agree with the others that Spain should probably be left off this trip. France and Italy have so much to see that this will keep you quite busy. You don't really say what you enjoy doing and what draws you to Europe. I loved Paris, Cinque Terre, Florence, Venice etc but was less excited by the French Riviera (Cote D'Azur) I very much enjoyed train travel and met some fun people that way but forget the buses. Another thought is to drive through France and Italy and stop in some in the small towns along the way. That depends on what you are looking for. <BR> <BR>I would suggest reading more about France and Italy and see what excites you and that will let you narrow down how you want to travel and where. If you aren't interested in the smaller towns in France you can start in Paris then do an overnight train to Nice and that leads you on into Italy. Have a great time!

Thanks everyone for the advice. The only European trip I've done was a whirlwind "see Europe in 12 days"! I appreciate the Busabout comments...the more I hear, the more I am eager to plan my own trip. Cheers everyone!

Karyn, <BR> <BR>I wanted to try a reply to your post earlier this morning, but didn't have time until the afternoon - - and a serious reply will take a LOT of time - - if this itinerary can be reasonably planned at all. <BR> <BR>Can you elucidate a little more about what attracts you to these various places - - especially San Sebastian - - and where in France would you like to go - - and more about your allocation between Italy and any other destination - - considering that you have booked yourself to fly into and OUT OF France. <BR> <BR>The itinerary you propose is hard enough WITHOUT the need to "close the loop" - - to return to the city you fly into. Is it too late to change your air travel? Your plans cry out for an open jaw - - or a "DiscoverEuropeAirPass" (or both) or something similar. <BR> <BR>Bilbao (about 100 km from San Sebastian/Donostia) has a totally new elaborate, contemporary airport (to amtch their new museum) - - see http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/a...400054,00.html - - for more info, but the number of international arrivals and departures remains few - - and there are no trans-atlantic flights. <BR> <BR>You could do this with flights on www.europebyair.com - - but it will work so much better with a different choice of gateway city (or cities) into and/or out of Europe. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

Rex, sadly, money controls our trip, and the flight is in stone. We are from Canada, and some of the only flights from our province were in and out of Paris. Other flights were close to $2000 CN more (keeping in mind our money is like monopoly money!). Friends have raved about the beaches in San Sebastien as the best in the world; in such a busy trip, I thought some relaxing time would be nice. As for Italy, it just seems like a must. Besides Paris, there isn't a whole lot more in France I feel I need to see...I spent two months in the south of France after university. My husband is set on seeing Rome, of course as it is so far, and I spent one whole day once in Florence and it seemed hardly enough, if I remember correctly. We just want to see the proverbial sights...but I'm feeling from some of the postings that I am being too ambitious. What do you think of this proposed itinerary: <BR>Paris - 3 days <BR>train to Nice, then to Venice <BR>Venice - 3 days <BR>train to Rome <BR>Rome - 3 days <BR>train to Florence <BR>Florence - 3 days <BR>train to Nice <BR>Nice - 1 day <BR>back to Paris? <BR>Thanks for your thoughtful consideration! cheers!

Okay, Karyn - - such is life. <BR> <BR>Take the train to Brussels, then fly www.virgin-express.com to Rome (or Milan) and vice versa when you are finshed in Italy. Faster and cheaper. <BR> <BR>Others will make the case for taking one or more night trains (and thus cutting out a night of lodging). I personally prefer to sleep where I can get up when I want to get up, and not where my bed is gone when we reach the end of the line (to say nothing of the absence of a proper shower or bathroom!) <BR>

Karyn, part of the problem with training to Italy from France is being restricted to that narrow passage through Nice. We've often found that it's easier to do the return through Germany to avoid the Alps and keep from repeating a journey. Anyway, I might suggest Paris-(Cinque Terre)-Florence-Rome-Venice-Salzburg/Munich-Paris. Munich is easier; Salzburg is prettier. From Salzburg you could go to Strasbourg or Heidelberg for an overnight. I realize this is not what you asked, but we have wrestled with these same logistics before and it's a thought. There is a good website that lets you put in departure/arrival cities and gives you an idea if you can "get there from there." www.bahn.hafas.de Anyway, good luck!

I have to agree with Debbie that the portion of the French Riviera that we visited (Nice and Villefranche) left me a little less impressed that anticipated. Perhaps, a schedule of Paris-Venice (via Milan--see below)-Rome-Florence-Cinque Terre (for your beach rest)-Paris (via Milan-Lausanne) would be good? <BR> <BR>Like you, for my vacation in May, I am hamstrung on arrival and departure cities with my air reservations, so I have to make my way from Venice to Paris and found the following helpful posts (I hope that the original posters don't mind my quoting them): <BR> <BR>TRAIN FROM MILAN TO PARIS (notes from Elvira): <BR>Milan train left 1pm, arrived Lausanne 5ish, left sixish, arrived Paris 10ish. <BR> The schedules often change slightly, depending on day and/or time of the <BR>year. sncf.com is the site to use for accuracy. <BR> <BR>I had a 1st class ticket, which I was happy about - I left Venice in the <BR>morning, with a HUGE suitcase (I was staying in Paris for 5 weeks), plus a <BR>couple of smaller bags. There was enough room to store my bags nearby, and <BR>fewer passengers per compartment. Usually I travel 2nd class, but with a <BR>total of 13 hours from Venice&gt;Paris, I figured I couldn't be uncomfortable for <BR>that long. <BR> <BR>TRAIN FROM PARIS TO MILAN: <BR>Author: Ben Haines ( [email protected]) <BR>Date: 1/13/2001, 8:03 pm ET <BR>Message: Fodors <BR> <BR>If I may disagree, the night raiun from Paris to Milan, the Stendhal Express, is particularly good. It has "Excelsior" coaches, brought into service six months ago. These have air conditioning, a reception area with corridor TV, and in compartments they have seats, a private bathroom with shower, toilet, washbasin, drinking water, a welcome drink, and a light breakfast. Passengers have use of Club Eurostar lounges in Italian stations. The train has a restaurant car. <BR>A double compartment costs 274 dollars for two adults, 233 dollars for two seniors or young people aged 16 to 24, and 206 dollars for two children. The price for one adult in a private compartment is about 200 dollars. These fares were set in France for December 2000, and may vary a few percent with exchange rate changes. You can book two months ahead of travel with a credit card by phoning or e-mailing Rail Choice, South East London, website http://www.railchoice.com, e-mail [email protected], and phone ++44 20 7939 9915. Your party would need two doubles and a single. The train leaves Paris Gare de Lyon at 2216, runs from 0058 to 0645 without a stop at a station, <BR>and reaches Milan at 0845. You'd need something to do in Paris your last evening -- a circus or ballet, perhaps ? <BR> <BR>Eurostar standards are high, but seven hours is still long in a day train. <BR> <BR>

Please does any one out there have any info about Avalino, This province is just east of Sorrento, staying in Rome for a month taking day trips by train to various areas, my grandparents were from the villiage or town of Nusco in Avelino any help please. <BR> Thanks <BR> Vinny

Wow Rex, I check out the virgin-express website. It would cost my husband and I $500 CN to fly from Brussels to Rome and back. It's looking like a great deal! Thanks for the advice! <BR>

to the top... for giovanna... <BR> <BR>I don't have to agree with your plan to do this (train from Italy, rather than fly) - - to help you find messages of those who have done it. <BR> <BR>Sometimes, I am just a librarian... <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>me...