WLMIV

Heimdall and Traveler 1959:

Let's say I arrive in Athens I spend three days there. I then travel to Hydra and Septses for a night each, then go to Nafplio for two nights. How do I get to see those archaeological sites such as Corinth, Mystras, or Methoni?

Would either of you suggest a sample itinerary for 8 days? I am happy to go either way but must start and end in Athens.

Also Can you give me the exact details on how I might be able to move about? I would like to have it well planned before I get there so that I do not run into complications.

Thanks. Your ideas were great and helped give me focus.

Dukey1

I've done this whole itinerary but since you've asked for specific people to comment I'll simply top this in the hopes that one of them will see it.

Heimdall

I suggested Nafplio because it is easy to reach from Athens, and has lots of historic sights in the area. You could either rent a car in Nafplio, or rely on local bus/tour services to get you to Corinth from there. What about Epidauros and the other amazing sights around Nafplio?

Mystras and Methoni are both in the southern Peloponnese, Laconia and Messenia respectively.

You have a very short time for Greece, and need to work out an itinerary to fit that time scale. There is never enough time to see everything, even if you had 2-3 weeks at your disposal. If you want to see Mystras and Methoni you will have to drop something else, and probably rent a car to get around.

There are others on this forum with more knowledge of the Peloponnese than me.

gertie3751

I was in Nafplio last summer. There is a trip report somewhere. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...greece-now.cfm The Nafplio bit is towards the end. I based myself there and got local buses to Mycenae one day and to Epidavros another. Both very easily done from the bus station. There were no coach tours to these from Nafplio at the time. No idea about hiring a car. The bus from Athens goes through Corinth. Don't know about Mystras and Methoni. I would say 2 nights in Nafplio is a bit tight.

traveller1959

To be honest, I would skip the islands and do the following itinerary instead:

Day 1: Athens, overnight in Athens
Day 2: Daytrip to Delphi and Hosios Loukas, overnight in Athens
Day 3: Drive via Epidaurus to Nafplion, overnight in Nafplion
Day 4: Nafplion and short trip to Mycenae, overnight in Nafplion
Day 5: drive to Mystras, overnight in Kalamata
Day 6: Messene and drive to Corinth, overnight in Corinth
Day 7: visiting Corinth and drive to Athens
Day 8: Athens

This will be the best of Greece what you can do in eight days.

Heimdall

WLMIV wrote in the other thread: "I would also prefer not to incur too many expenses such as renting a car..." I have tried making suggestions that would, for the most part, be possible by public transport, perhaps sometimes hiring a car locally for a day at a time.

One advantage of small islands is that you don't need a car: travel to the island by ferry, and walk or take public transport on the island itself. Nevertheless, traveller1959 has some good ideas, so if you are now open to car hire it would be possible to do such an itinerary.

traveller1959

Rental cars are inexpensive in Greece - as everything. Driving is very easy in Greece and usually you are faster than Google Maps (or other route planners) suggest.

It is very hard to run into complications in Greece with a rental car. Distances are fairly short, roads are in excellent conditions, you have gas stations, restaurants and hotels everywhere and everything is dirt cheap.

I OP insists in going to an island he/she may skip the Kalamata/Messene part of the iterary and use the extra day for Hydra or Spetses.

stanbr

I have watched this series of threads with interest but have not responded because of the initial comment noted by Heimdall "I would also prefer not to incur too many expenses such as renting a car..."
Since our experience has been by car I thought it is probably irrelevant for the OP. But since the thought has now been introduced.

Since you do not have a big flight to get to Athens you will not be jet lagged so you can arrive early enough to rent a car and immediately drive to Nafplio. On the way stop in Corinth and visit the canal, ancient Corinth and Ancient Nemia, a sister to Olympia. There is a good museum, a partially restored temple and the stadium there.
Nafplio is a perfect base for day trips to Epidaurus and Mycenae as well as a long day trip to Mystras. (Count on about 2 hours drive to get there and a minimum of 4 hours on the site then the drive back.)
Nafplio is a delightful destination on its own and deserves a at least a day just to explore the old town and the fortresses.

Based on Gerties comments you can probably do this itinerary by local bus as well but then you will probably have to combine that with taxis to get to the actual sites. In the long run renting the car gives you enough flexibility to out way the expense issue.

Just as an aside Nafplio while not an island location does have the feel of an island because it is on the seashore. It doesn't have any beach to speak of just a rocky coast and a swimming club place, but the resort town of Tolo is only 8 km away.

After Nafplio take traveller 1959 advice and cross the bridge at Patras to visit Delphi and then return to Athens for a couple of nights. Its a lot to take in and the car is the key.

Here is what you can expect.
Olympia Delfi Meteora https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbr...7645469717811/

Nafplio and Peloponnese http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbr5...7632094108982/

gertie3751

Just to chime in again:
The local bus goes directly to Epidauros and Mycenae. To the sites. No taxi necessary.
Nafplio has a nice beach round the headland from the 'swimming place'. Or you can walk up and over the hill from town in about 10 minutes.
But to do this by public transport you certainly need more than 2 days in Nafplio. I think I was there for 5.
Seems like an either or situation to me.
Maybe Traveler Jan will comment; I found her advice very helpful.

travelerjan

OK, gertie, since you mention me!
First off, I'll be candid about which you might consider skipping:
• Hydra & Spetses unless you have some special reason for visiting them ... not much in way of landmarks, and you can find beaches just as good OR better in areas of Peloponnese. They mainly get attention because they are highly promoted by Rick Steves to his American followers.
• Corinth -- Stanbr's been there, because he's been to Greece a jillion times as have I. It's famous, but maybe not that rewarding to those who are not deep-dyed archeology experts. Regular Corinth site is mainly Hellenic era (not Mycenaean/Homeric era), and poor signage, according to friends & guidebooks. If doing a "Christian pilgrimage" you can find a marker where st. Paul preached. Acrocorinth, the high part, has a great view they say, ruins are mainly from the Middle Ages onward. One thing sure, VERY time-consuming to visit if you dont have car. It involves KTEL Bus, taxi to town, Bus to Site, taxi back then bus etc etc.

Another key thing, how important is Delphi to you? If able to rent a car for the whole time, Stanbr's itinerary is perfect. IF not, &you DO want delphi, I suggest switching around to put delphi at end, with Athens.

CHOICES -- You are not specific, but I'm thinking you are solo ... when there are 2 or more, the car rental vs. bus is almost a wash. But as solo, you may do a combo of bus + shorter rental. I agree with gertie, that using public transport from a base in Nafplio will eat up more days ... you really can only do one ancient sight per day, because of the bus schedules; I know because i've done this. For this Combo approach, my itinerary suggestion would be:

DAY 1 -- Arrive ATH airport, take KTEL bus to Kifissos KTEL station & get intercity bus to Nafplio (hourly on half-hour, €13, takes 2.5 hr, nice scenery en route). Afternoon, explore town enjoy seafront sunset!
DAY 2 -- Explore Old Town AM, superb tiny museum, Acronafplia ramparts etc (see this website: http://www.visitnafplio.com for FAB advice re all!!!!). in aft, swim -- either town beach or 10min bus to Tolo (sandy) or ASINE (rocky cove PLUS sandy beach PLUS ruins to climb).
DAY 3 -- 8 AM car rental... hit MYCENAE by 9 to beat bus crowds, by noon head off to ANCIENT NEMEA ... then hit Nemea Village to visit vineyards OR wine-bottlers, to sample Greece's BEST reds, & buy a couple of bottles to go, then back for a swim & relaxing.
DAY 4 -- drive to EPIDAURUS in AM, take picnic & hit an area beach, come back late day & drive up back way to Palamidi fortress, final Nafplio sunset.
DAY 5 -- Let's face it, a looong travel day; take a good book! Morning bus back to ATHENS, switch to Liossos KTEL station to catcg a NOON bus to Delphi (3.5 hrs) arrive late aft, walk to a hotel(Budget hotel Pan has great views), walk 1/2 Km along the mountain rim road to Museum (open til 8, empty after 5!), Enjoy sunset at a cafe.
DAY 6 -- To ancient site by 8, explore almost alone; leave by 10:30-11, when bus crowds arrive; get a 1 pm bus back to ATH, in time to relax, have leisurely dinner... with Acropolis view perhaps.
DAY 7 & 8 -- ATHENS sightseeing

travelerjan

I forgot one sight handy to Nafplio ... TIRYNS, right outside town, a 5 minute drive or a 10-minute local bus ride ... same era fortress as Mycenae, NEVER any tour busses, some parts closed for repair ... very evocative if just for the giant stones constituting the walls; each boulder the size of a Volkwagon.

stanbr

Hey Jan I was waiting for you to chime in here with the excellent do it by bus plan. Great advice.

Gertie you are correct the local buses do go to the sites from Nafplio. Unfortunately there is no edit button here as I realized my statement was incorrect based on Nafplio. What I was referring to was taking the bus to Corinth and trying to see the sites there. If one doesn't have a car then the bus/taxi option is pretty much necessary to get to Ancient Corinth and Ancient Nemia from the bus station. My bad.

traveller1959

Now, the riddle is solved:

I was thinking why the heck do you want to go to Hydra and Spetsos?

Okay, it was this notorious Rick Steves (who is unknown in Europe and to whom Europe is unknown too - with ridiculously wrong maps in his books, to start with).

A few words about several sites:

- Corinth's excavations are somewhat in the second league, at least compared with first-league archeological sites like Delphi, Messene and Epidaurus. But the place is conveniently located right on the way between Athens and Nafplion and it is historically significant because of St. Paul (there is a small altar on the terrace where he spoke). And Acrocorinth is spectacular. Very easy to visit with a rental car.

- Mycenae. There is not too much left, but it is very old and from a culture that was before the Greek culture. The museum is very good (although the best pieces are in the National Museum in Athens) and the Treasury of Atreus is impressive. And the Lions' Gate alone in worth the visit. And also very conveniently located between Corinth and Nafplion.

Given your limited time, I would not spend too much time in Athens. The main attractions - Acropolis, theatres, Agora, Areopagus, Pnyx, Hephaistos temple - can easily be visited in half a day, because they are practically in one archeological field. Then the National Archeological Museum is a must. The Old Town is nice, but Nafplion is certainly better. And, again, do not waste your precious time with public transport. With a car, you can easily visit Corinth, Acrocorinth, Mycenae, Tiryns and half of Nafplion in a single day - it is so close!

travelerjan

Good insights, traveller1959. Stanbr's itinerary also was good, if one is able to rent a car for the entire time. However, the OP specifically stated in his original post (not this thread), that he decided against Crete because he hoped to avoid renting a car for the entire time, and was looking for an itinerary that could avoid this... I'm assuming it's because of budget constraints. Since (tho he doesn't say specifically) he's going solo, there is not anybody to split the cost of car rental. That Is why I proposed a compromise -- travel ATH - Nafplio via public bus, and do the most-local sightseeing on food or local bus... then rent a car for just 2 days, to bunch together the other landmarks.

Heimdall

I agree with travelerjan, but it's not always budget constraints that makes someone want to avoid renting a car. I travel solo, and would much rather use public transport where I can look at the scenery rather than concentrate on the road. I do enough driving at home, and enjoy walking and using public transport during my trips to Greece.

If WLMIV wishes to avoid renting a car, we should be suggesting itineraries that don't require one.

gertie3751

Yes, me too Heimdall
Wonder where WLMIV is? We are all offering all kinds of ideas and nothing from the OP.

travelerjan

WLMIV indicated he didn't want to have to rent a car for the whole time he was in Crete, but he didn't indicate aversion to a limited rental. When I travel solo, I'm all about public transport. When with others, we rent & I'm the map & GPS person... and they are the ones who can't look at the scenery!

WLMIV

Some great replies.

Sorry I have not replied. I have been busy all week and had not time to think about what you all have said.

Yes I am solo and want to avoid working for my holiday. In other words I would prefer not to deal with the hassle of renting a car, but would do so if necessary. I dislike driving as it is stressful for me especially in an unfamiliar place. I am kind of laid back and do not want to deal with the stress of a car as a solo driver.

I do wish there was an inexpensive tour in Nafplion.

I was looking for a bit of beach experience, history, and Greek authenticity. Some posters on the message board suggested avoiding the islands because they were mostly party beach spots (minus parts of Crete and few sites on other islands (I do not want to knock them) and that doing this circle route would fit the bill).

What do you think of going from:

1 night Athens
1 night Spestes - beach (to avoid the Rick Steves Hydra suggestion)
1 night Nafplion beach
1 night Nafplion to visit Mycenae by bus (maybe Tiryns thrown in here somewhere)
1 night Nafplion to visit Epidaurus by bus (can I get anywhere else this day? i.e. beach-fishing village and get back to Nafplion)
1 Athens return
1 Athens historical sites
1 Athens to Delphi?

What do you all think? Does this work. Can you help me tinker with it to make it perfect.

Also in Nafplion and in Athens can you tell me the exact spot or name where I can catch the buses/boats I need?

Thank you very much for your time one and all.

gertie3751

Well, I can help with the buses in Nafplio. There's a bus office of sorts on the (very short) main street with taxis outside and lot of buses/people milling around. Inside you can find printed copies of timetables. Beware, buses leave on time! You can buy a ticket either inside the office, at the machine outside or from the driver. For the long distance bus to Athens, there is a lady in the office who will give you times (every 30 mins as I recall) and sell you a reserved seat.

travelerjan

I'm going to post on this thread, rather than confuse things by posting on a new Thread. And WL, since even on this thread, you did not repeat certain vital information -- I had to go back and find your original thread for a reminder about the DATES of your trip. Please, when u start any new thread on the same topic, please do a recap of important info such as this.

I still don't get it why you keep putting in Spetses??? It's a long boat ride from Athens, and then it is not convenient to Nafplio... you'd have to take a local bus ... maybe even a bus to Corinth area and change. WASTE of time. What is it about Spetses.

BEACHES --There are wonderful beaches right outside Nafplion... did you yet visit the BEST website? http://www.visitnafplio.com Has whole section on beaches: http://www.visitnafplio.com/beaches.html I Looove the tiny stony town beach Arvinita (u can avoid stones by jumping in from pier).. Karathona a 45-min walk along sea, from Arvinita.. TOLO a 10=min bus ride it's a beach resort, not a fishing village, but beach is sandy & fine.

On the same bus route as Tolo, my secret favorite is Kastraki, right by the Asine ruins in photo u see Tolo Beach in distance. At Kastraki, sunbrellas furnished by the sole taverna, family-run, terrif traditional food, fresh fish, stunning sunsets right from your table, go there late day,swim, dine, take last bus back to Nafplio. AND, if you walk around the side of the ruins of Asine, there is a totally UNpublicized sandy beach -- no facilities (no sunbrellas, cafes, or WC) but in June very few people aside from those from campground. These beaches all give an island "feel" besides being superhandy via public transit.

SIGHTSEEING -- For Epidaurus, the nearest beaches require a car. Get local bus early AM to Epidaurus, about 1 or so, catch bus back to Nafplio bus station & immed. take 10-min local bus to Tolo or Kastraki/Assine. TIryns is on local bus from Nafplio on Argos route i Think.. takes 10 mins, tey drop u off by road. Check return times. Ask where to stand.

You CAN do it all by public transit u just have to plan, ask ask ask at bus station, write down schedule times, on busses talk to drivers, be sure u know where to stand for home-bound buses, that work is up to you.

DELPHI -- When you bus back to Athens area, must more time-efficient to go directly to Delphi. Nafplio bus ends at Kifissou KTEL bus terminal, there u catch a connector bus to Liosson KTEL Terminal. Time it to connect an express bus to Delphi. Here are the two KTEL Timetables (unchanged year by year): http://www.athensguide.com/practical...schedulesA.htm http://www.athensguide.com/practical...schedulesB.htm
-- Your best bet: catch Nap-Ath bus 7 AM arr 9:30, catch 10:30 bus out of Liosson Term, arrive 2pm in Delphi. Find hotel (Pan is cheap & good-- back rooms have FABBB view). Take nap, recover. at 5 pm you can go to Museum (EMPTY at that time) and down to Tholos ruin at sunset... then find nice taverna overlooking mountainside. Next AM get to Delphi main ruins by 8 AM ... again, blessedly empty unti tour busses arrive around 10:30-11. You can catch an 11 am athens-bound bus or have a big lunch & get 1600 bus (4pm)... on some days, there's also a 1330 (1:30 bus). Again: ask ask ask.

SIGHTSEEING - Delphi Museum v. good signage -- the ruins will mean more if u do your homework, read guidebooks, download relevant online stuff to take. This site -- http://www.planetware.com/map/greece...-gr-grcrep.htm -- has some of BEST available printable maps of Delphi, Nafplion and central Athens.