Knowing a lot of the waitstaff at restaurants in Spain, and dealing with first time travelers on some occasions, it's difficult to explain to many Americans about tipping in Spain. The first rule is not to overtip, do as the locals do, which seems difficult for my first time visitors, especially when the price of a glass of wine is less than €2 and they are use to paying $10 to $12/glass.

Peter why would I punish a server if the food was not good. Ridiculus.

If food is poor but service was good I still tip and so should you if in a tipping country.

If food is not good you can complain about food.. return it to kitchen .. or have it removed from the bill.

Not tipping the servers is only acceptable to most of us if you are either in a non tipping country.. OR the service was beyond dismal and you can clearly see the restaurant is not busy or its not the kids first night( in which case one should exercise some empathy)

Hetismij2.. There are usually TWO minimum wages for each State.. the minimum wage for most workers and the LOWER minimum wage for those who earn tips such as servers. Not a living wage without tips.

I do feel some people over tip or tip when not appropriate to pat themselves secretly on their own backs.. telling themselves what neato people they are..

I remember an American man handing me five bucks for no darn reason when I first started working at a very nice place here( this was a few decades ago!) he simply mentioned it was his wifes birthday and could they have a table by the window.
I would have given it to him anyways.. it is VERY uncommon for people to hand hostesses here money for getting a certain table.. we just give people a table they request if it is not pre reserved.. no need to bribe us. I remember all the servers and I giggling over it( not meanly.. we thought it was great.. but very over generous.. remember, it was 5 bucks in 1982,84 era)

So feel free to over tip or tip when you don't need to.. it makes you feel good.. and hell NO ONE hates getting a gift of money.. but really..it can seem odd when not expected.. and really/// not always as needed as you think ( my job was actually well paying at the time since I worked in a union hotel.. !)

Re:California, see: http://www.minimum-wage.org/states.asp?state=California

Especially: "Unlike many other states, tipped employees in California are also entitled to the full minimum wage of $9.00 per hour."

"Not all wait staff in the U.S. are underpaid. In California they receive minimum wage." -- Unfortunately, minimum wages in the US aren't necessarily sufficient. From an Oct. 2013 article in DailyFinance: "Last week, California became the first state in the U.S. to pass a law creating a double-digit minimum wage, with Gov. Jerry Brown signing legislation that will increase the current $8 per hour minimum wage to $9 next July and to $10 by the beginning of 2016.... As MIT's Living Wage Calculator reveals ... using estimates of costs for housing, food, transportation, medical care, and other expenses, the calculator estimates that even a single adult with no children would need to earn $11.20 per hour in order to cover basic costs of living."

"NO ONE hates getting a gift of money" -- actually, in some cultures, tipping is NOT appreciated. In Japan, for example, a tip could invoke the traditional norms governing the EXCHANGE of gifts, and so might not be welcome AT ALL, instead being quite embarrassing to the recipient.

It's actually quite simple: follow the local norms. Tipping, or undertipping, when tips are expected is a problem. Tipping, or overtipping, when tips are not expected is a problem, no matter how well-intended.

"Instead, let's discuss what to do when the food you are served is NOT satisfactory. The most vocal about tipping are usually Brits. So come on Brits tell us what you do when the food sucks. Get beyond not tipping."

It depends on if I'm paying or if my host is paying. If my host is paying then I will wait for a quiet moment, step away from the table, find the waiter or Md and tell him what was wrong. If I'm paying I grab the waiter and tell him what is wrong.

" If the food is cold or over-cooked (common in UK)" probably true 30 years ago, biggest problem now is 1) undercooked, 2) too small a portion especially in the South of England or in chichi restaurants who know how to cook just not how to feed people

The harder issue is what to do when the wine is not-corked but just a poor version of the wine. If my host (and she is happy) is paying you can do nothing. If you are paying what do you do?

What would other cultures do if the wine is just not as you hoped?

I think the fact is if you order a wine and simply don't like it that's your problem and the business owes you nothing.. if you order a wine and it has gone bad ( corked) then of course you have a right to refuse it.

Very few wines are going to be corked though... especially nowadays with many decent drinking wines coming with screw top or plastic corks.

I think an exception may be is if you work with a sommelier and they strongly recommend a wine based on a discussion you have with them on your tastes and discover it is nothing like you expected.. you could talk to him .. nicely.. and explain he must have misunderstood you when you asked for a certain quality.. especially if he talked you out of your price comfort point.. but honestly , that has never happened to me.

justine, I think you are right, I've seldom had a problem like this that has either been my fault or is clearly their fault and to be honest I've had probably more wow moments than oh my god moments.

However I have had a second bottle of wine that is not as good as the first. The trouble then is the sommelier does not have the first bottle around to taste against and has only a hazy memory of the wine. I generally now avoid restaurants with long wine lists (>50) as I find the sommelier normally lacks sufficent memory.

What is still harder when they have a Director of Wine who gives you advice which is rubbish, still I've never tipped a Director so not an issue here.

>>It's actually quite simple: follow the local norms. Tipping, or undertipping, when tips are expected is a problem. Tipping, or overtipping, when tips are not expected is a problem, no matter how well-intended.<<

I think we have a new definition of "quite simple."

When I travel, I try to dress, behave, and speak like an American (I particluarly enjoy speaking louder when waitstaff don't understand my English). I enjoy the extra servility I receive in the expectation of a 15-20% bonus.

Then I tip like a Frenchman.

If we had to tip the Director of Whine, this board would be fabulously wealthy.

So leaving the small change after a cheap (compared with other countries) cup of coffee is not a called a tip, could some one please tell me what is it?
As to not wanting the tipping culture here in Spain I think that idea is too late. Just look at all of those so called free guides that work for tips.

<< When I travel, I try to dress, behave, and speak like an American (I particluarly enjoy speaking louder when waitstaff don't understand my English). I enjoy the extra servility I receive in the expectation of a 15-20% bonus.

Then I tip like a Frenchman. >>

Now there's an idea!

>>Then I tip like a Frenchman.<<

But you think like a Brit.

Peter, about those mean spritzes - ask the barman for more Campari/Aperol. I have observed locals doing this.

Our breakfast was including in the price of the room. The hotel had the wonderful system of billing us for breakfast at the table, asking us to sign for the bill (with the usual huge gap for tip) only for us to be told that the amount would be deducted from the final bill on check out. The amount was deducted but not the tip.>>

that sounds like fraud to me, Dickie. it must add up to a tidy sum when applied to all their guests.

i wonder what SJ suggests that we Brits do about that? BTW, I've not noticed other races being that much better about dealing service and other problems. We went out to dinner a few years ago in Germany with german friends who were hosting the event and the service was appalling - it took them about 30 mins even to bring us the wine list and another 15 mins to bring the actual wine. They were mortified but didn't deal with it noticeably better than I think we would have done.

I can't actually remember when I last had one of those cold/undercooked/poor meals that you talk about in the UK - perhaps SJ you are particularly unlucky [or look like a bad tipper!] or you just haven't been to the UK for a long time. [when were you here last, BTW?] Should I be that unfortunate I'll try to have this thread on hand so I can follow your advice - it would never have occurred to me not to eat something badly cooked or to pay for food I couldn't eat. Thank you so much for educating me, especially in English law [not sure what UK law is, it doesn't actually exist as it differs depending on which part of the UK you are in].

" If the food is cold or over-cooked (common in UK)" probably true 30 years ago, biggest problem now is 1) undercooked, 2) too small a portion especially in the South of England or in chichi restaurants who know how to cook just not how to feed people>>

bilbo - come to Cornwall. you can still eat until you are stuffed here, if you know the right places! and there's little risk of encountering the undercooked veg, unless you are brave enough to go to Padstow!

I was last in the UK a couple of years ago annhig and have spent plenty of time in the UK overall. Things have got better in the last couple of decades but still leave a lot to be desired in many places.

As for the breakfast bill question, if the breakfast was to my liking I would leave a cash tip on the table for the server, just as I always do. I would ignore the hotel's system of adding it to the bill just as I always do with any bill that has a 'space' for adding a tip. Pay for the meal on a credit card, tip with cash.

Funny bilbo that you refer to undercooked vegetables, my experience (other than in chichi places as you say)is that in the UK, vegetables along with everything else are usually overcooked. But in terms of vegetables, I do accept that it is a question of taste. I like my vegetables a bit crisp with a crunch to them when I bite into them. So what you refer to as undercooked may well be just how I want mine to be. That is a question of differing tastes.

However, if you ask for a medium rare steak then that is not about differing tastes. What constitutes, rare, medium, well done, is defined and you should get what you ordered.

As for eating until you are stuffed, who wants that? You've actually touched on a particularly touchy subject annhig. Read some of the articles here:
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...over+the+years
People are eating too much. Then everyone says, 'why are there so many fat people?'

As for eating until you are stuffed, who wants that? You've actually touched on a particularly touchy subject annhig. Read some of the articles here>

your sense of humour is well in evidence again, SJ.

SoJo

You missed the point, I was forced to tip for something that was free. Insane.

Ann

It is creeping up here now, Giraffe did me for a 10% gratuity added to the bill last Saturday in Manchester, I didn't question it, just will not ever go back.

"What constitutes, rare, medium, well done, is defined and you should get what you ordered." no it isn't it varies at least by country in the same way as what constitutes a hot curry in Dorset is nothing like a hot one in Bradford (I know 'cause I had that experience last year).

Not being much of a meat eater I love to watch people trying to explain what they want on the cooked meat issue (do you remember Dr Crane trying to get "just a hint of pink on the surface" in Frasier?)

Ann, would you believe Cauliflower so hard in Looe that I couldn't get my knife into it.