Tipping maids?
Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:15 PM
#21
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I can understand that there may well be many people who don't tip the maids. I do not understand how a five star hotel, anywhere, could have a waitstaff who did not receive tips?
Where was this establishment...and do you believe that the service was average or good in the restaurant?
Where was this establishment...and do you believe that the service was average or good in the restaurant?
Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:41 PM
#22
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I don't eat at 5 star restaurants and so don't know what is expected of the waitstaff, but when I did see them working they looked professional and polite. Their style was very French though, none of the American style drink refilling or smiles or 'have a nice day' which may well have come across to foreign guests as surliness or unfriendliness. Also a few of them were unable to understand orders in English, not because they were being difficult but because they genuinely had no English. Other than that, I think their level of service seemed pretty high and I can't think why they wouldn't have received tips. Its possible that guests were 'adding' tips onto credit cards assuming they'd go to the waitstaff (they never did)
Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:42 PM
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Your posting has left me very concerned and I have a couple of questions for you and hope you will answer them if you can and are willing.
1) Does your college know the conditions that you have been forced to work under?
2) Did you arrange for the job here? Will you post the name of the organization?
3) Did you have to get a Visa before you left here?
4) Could you tell me the name of the place/hotel so I will avoid it?
1) Does your college know the conditions that you have been forced to work under?
2) Did you arrange for the job here? Will you post the name of the organization?
3) Did you have to get a Visa before you left here?
4) Could you tell me the name of the place/hotel so I will avoid it?
Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:49 PM
#24
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I'm still trying to picture this 5 star hotel and restaurant somewhere near Paris in a place that has no busses, trains, or taxis. I would certainly think anyone staying there probably has all meals included (or at least two of them) as that's kind of the usual in such a place. So it is extremely doubtful that they would be tipping at a place where it would normally be assumed when signing to your room (or simply checking in with the host) that it is an all inclusive place.
Meanwhile, you're also telling us that while there was a "head maid" that these people called you in the night every night for two weeks to fix up their room? Are you saying that this five star hotel didn't do a normal turn down service? And are you talking about being called after your normal working hours till 10? How did they get your number?
Please tell us what this place is, it sounds simply unbelievable!
Meanwhile, you're also telling us that while there was a "head maid" that these people called you in the night every night for two weeks to fix up their room? Are you saying that this five star hotel didn't do a normal turn down service? And are you talking about being called after your normal working hours till 10? How did they get your number?
Please tell us what this place is, it sounds simply unbelievable!
Aug 22nd, 2005, 03:09 PM
#25
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Patrick I assure you I am telling the truth 100%. We knew while we were there (me and the other Irish girl) it was a horrendous job, but that was mainly because of the people. We didn't actually consider outselves that exploited because many of the staff were getting paid little or nothing and didn't seem to mind too much, and also the fact it was only a few months made it almost bearable. The long term staff were properly paid.
Believe it or not, there are MANY small villages near Paris with absolutely no transport. In the area we were in these included Chailly-en-Biere, Barbizon, La Glandee and I'm sure many others. The station serving Paris was 12km away, which doesn't sound far but it sure is far on foot! There was a number for one taxi driver (I assume the only one) but they hardly ever answered and when they did told us they weren't available that day! The one time we managed to get a taxi to Fontainebleau, the guy refused to being us to the station because it was too far out of his way and left us in the centre..... so after paying 20 euros for the taxi we still had a 2-3km walk! It sounds too crazy to be true but it is! We had to resort to hitchhiking a couple of times we just HAD to get out of the village, which is something I'd normally never dream of doing.
There was no all-inclusive price.... guests who wished to dine in the restaurant had to make reservations like everyone else (many people from 'outside' dined there too) and the menu was 75-100E per person. Breakfast wasn't even included, nope, they paid 20 euro every day for that too.
The head maid and the other maid (there are only 2 longterm ones) majorly took advantage of us after we were trained. Each maid was supposed to do the evening shift (8pm-10pm) around twice a week, yet after we arrived the 'older' maids never did it once except for on our days off! They justified it by saying it was easier for us as we lived at the hotel so didn't need to drive back, and that they had kids at home while we didn't. So we ended up doing it every night. The Americans who gave us the wine couldn't believe that they'd see us at 10am and then again at 9pm, still working! Also the fact we spoke English worked against us as we were called on to sort out problems and translate for British and American guests.
The odd time, yes I was kept after hours to do something for a guest. Theoretically I could have just left but the receptionist would expect me to stay until the guests were all happy. On nights there were lots of rooms we'd be there until 10.30 at night. We were made to feel like slackers for complaining as the French staff didn't see a problem with this. Because we lived on the hotel grounds, we could be contacted at any time. They didn't need a number, they knocked on our door! The head maid knocked on my door at 9am on my day off once, yelling at me for messing up at work the night before!
Believe it or not, there are MANY small villages near Paris with absolutely no transport. In the area we were in these included Chailly-en-Biere, Barbizon, La Glandee and I'm sure many others. The station serving Paris was 12km away, which doesn't sound far but it sure is far on foot! There was a number for one taxi driver (I assume the only one) but they hardly ever answered and when they did told us they weren't available that day! The one time we managed to get a taxi to Fontainebleau, the guy refused to being us to the station because it was too far out of his way and left us in the centre..... so after paying 20 euros for the taxi we still had a 2-3km walk! It sounds too crazy to be true but it is! We had to resort to hitchhiking a couple of times we just HAD to get out of the village, which is something I'd normally never dream of doing.
There was no all-inclusive price.... guests who wished to dine in the restaurant had to make reservations like everyone else (many people from 'outside' dined there too) and the menu was 75-100E per person. Breakfast wasn't even included, nope, they paid 20 euro every day for that too.
The head maid and the other maid (there are only 2 longterm ones) majorly took advantage of us after we were trained. Each maid was supposed to do the evening shift (8pm-10pm) around twice a week, yet after we arrived the 'older' maids never did it once except for on our days off! They justified it by saying it was easier for us as we lived at the hotel so didn't need to drive back, and that they had kids at home while we didn't. So we ended up doing it every night. The Americans who gave us the wine couldn't believe that they'd see us at 10am and then again at 9pm, still working! Also the fact we spoke English worked against us as we were called on to sort out problems and translate for British and American guests.
The odd time, yes I was kept after hours to do something for a guest. Theoretically I could have just left but the receptionist would expect me to stay until the guests were all happy. On nights there were lots of rooms we'd be there until 10.30 at night. We were made to feel like slackers for complaining as the French staff didn't see a problem with this. Because we lived on the hotel grounds, we could be contacted at any time. They didn't need a number, they knocked on our door! The head maid knocked on my door at 9am on my day off once, yelling at me for messing up at work the night before!
Aug 22nd, 2005, 03:22 PM
#26
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MomKJC:
"Your posting has left me very concerned and I have a couple of questions for you and hope you will answer them if you can and are willing.
1) Does your college know the conditions that you have been forced to work under?"
No, I haven't been in contact with them and to be honest, I don't think they'd care. My department isn't known for its great student relations, in other words, they couldn't care less about us. If we had come home early, they may have accepted our work conditions as an excuse for not completing our obligation, but we could not take that risk.
"2) Did you arrange for the job here? Will you post the name of the organization?"
I found the job in a listings book of jobs for students who need to work abroad in the summer, at my college. There was no agency, it was just like a newspaper ad.
"3) Did you have to get a Visa before you left here?"
No, I live in Ireland so I can work legally in Europe without one.
"4) Could you tell me the name of the place/hotel so I will avoid it?"
As much as I love naming and shaming, it would not be fair to a couple of friends who are still working there. I'm paranoid about the management finding this. To be honest, I think this kind of thing is very common in France and could go on in any hotel. Maybe not the abuse from co workers, but definitely the exploitation of young staff. I met workers from another hotel in the village and they were all about 15!
I was going to name the village but if I did it would be obvious to anyone who knows the place which hotel I'm talking about. It's near Fontainebleau (12km) on the edge of the forest, its a tiny village famous for the painters who lived/studied there, very picturesque but very boring.
"Your posting has left me very concerned and I have a couple of questions for you and hope you will answer them if you can and are willing.
1) Does your college know the conditions that you have been forced to work under?"
No, I haven't been in contact with them and to be honest, I don't think they'd care. My department isn't known for its great student relations, in other words, they couldn't care less about us. If we had come home early, they may have accepted our work conditions as an excuse for not completing our obligation, but we could not take that risk.
"2) Did you arrange for the job here? Will you post the name of the organization?"
I found the job in a listings book of jobs for students who need to work abroad in the summer, at my college. There was no agency, it was just like a newspaper ad.
"3) Did you have to get a Visa before you left here?"
No, I live in Ireland so I can work legally in Europe without one.
"4) Could you tell me the name of the place/hotel so I will avoid it?"
As much as I love naming and shaming, it would not be fair to a couple of friends who are still working there. I'm paranoid about the management finding this. To be honest, I think this kind of thing is very common in France and could go on in any hotel. Maybe not the abuse from co workers, but definitely the exploitation of young staff. I met workers from another hotel in the village and they were all about 15!
I was going to name the village but if I did it would be obvious to anyone who knows the place which hotel I'm talking about. It's near Fontainebleau (12km) on the edge of the forest, its a tiny village famous for the painters who lived/studied there, very picturesque but very boring.
Aug 22nd, 2005, 05:49 PM
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mariposa, while I somewhat sympathize with your alleged plight, much does not seem to add up. For one thing, I am very curious about a 5* hotel "near" (?) Paris, with "no buses, trains, taxis"??? How do guests arrive and depart? Yourself?
Whenever I've booked a hotel in Paris, rate is typically quoted "including taxes and service". I never gave the "service" part much thought. A few years ago, I realized at CDG that I'd neglected to leave a tip for housekeeping. When we returned home, I e-mailed the hotel, explaining that I had forgotten to leave a gratuity in the room for the housekeeping staff, and inquired as to the best way to send same. The reply was "This will not be necessary, Madame, as all service was included in your bill".
As for tips in restaurants the "stinking rich" patronize (along with all others), those in the know understand that "service comprise" means just that. Those not in the know, tip anyway. Just as we've previously done.
Locals we've conversed with in Paris have all told us that tipping (for housekeeping, in restaurants) is simply not required, and that Americans who tip anyway, because they're used to doing so or are feeling generous, are "seen as flagrantly throwing their money around". They've told us the exceptions include leaving (very) small change at a cafe, taxi drivers, and bartenders (where prices are not service compris). I've learned that if we pay with a credit card and add a gratuity, the waiter does not receive it. (Which would probably explain the rolling of the eyes and "sniff" whenever we've done this.)
If this truly was some sort of college requirement, surely everyone else encountered similar difficulties? Perhaps there is a good reason for this requirement? Sounds a bit odd to me, anyway. Why France? Somehow your comments regarding your "department" seem quite implausible.
To me, freshening up rooms, bringing flowers, conversing with guests, translating (though you never mentioned being fluent in French), just does not seem like difficult work. Being away from home, lodging at the facility, one would think you would enjoy this. Especially since your were "stuck" on the property 24/7.
All in all, you knew what you were getting into. I have great difficulty believing that staff accomodations and meals were so dismal in a 5* property.
"The long term staff were properly paid" seems a bit of a give-away to your otherwise allegedly sincere and beautifully detailed tale...
Also curious is your "reluctance" to name this place.
I would suspect that you are referring to Barbizon, where I know of no 5* hotels, or restaurants, rather just several hostelleries and B&B's...and do not recall any lodgings which would have such a huge staff or fine dining restaurant...
If you were called upon to "translate", I cannot imagine that you would be so paranoid that your complaints would be discovered herein...
Whenever I've booked a hotel in Paris, rate is typically quoted "including taxes and service". I never gave the "service" part much thought. A few years ago, I realized at CDG that I'd neglected to leave a tip for housekeeping. When we returned home, I e-mailed the hotel, explaining that I had forgotten to leave a gratuity in the room for the housekeeping staff, and inquired as to the best way to send same. The reply was "This will not be necessary, Madame, as all service was included in your bill".
As for tips in restaurants the "stinking rich" patronize (along with all others), those in the know understand that "service comprise" means just that. Those not in the know, tip anyway. Just as we've previously done.
Locals we've conversed with in Paris have all told us that tipping (for housekeeping, in restaurants) is simply not required, and that Americans who tip anyway, because they're used to doing so or are feeling generous, are "seen as flagrantly throwing their money around". They've told us the exceptions include leaving (very) small change at a cafe, taxi drivers, and bartenders (where prices are not service compris). I've learned that if we pay with a credit card and add a gratuity, the waiter does not receive it. (Which would probably explain the rolling of the eyes and "sniff" whenever we've done this.)
If this truly was some sort of college requirement, surely everyone else encountered similar difficulties? Perhaps there is a good reason for this requirement? Sounds a bit odd to me, anyway. Why France? Somehow your comments regarding your "department" seem quite implausible.
To me, freshening up rooms, bringing flowers, conversing with guests, translating (though you never mentioned being fluent in French), just does not seem like difficult work. Being away from home, lodging at the facility, one would think you would enjoy this. Especially since your were "stuck" on the property 24/7.
All in all, you knew what you were getting into. I have great difficulty believing that staff accomodations and meals were so dismal in a 5* property.
"The long term staff were properly paid" seems a bit of a give-away to your otherwise allegedly sincere and beautifully detailed tale...
Also curious is your "reluctance" to name this place.
I would suspect that you are referring to Barbizon, where I know of no 5* hotels, or restaurants, rather just several hostelleries and B&B's...and do not recall any lodgings which would have such a huge staff or fine dining restaurant...
If you were called upon to "translate", I cannot imagine that you would be so paranoid that your complaints would be discovered herein...
Aug 22nd, 2005, 06:17 PM
#30
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I'm also really concerned about this college you go to. They "require" you to do this kind of work, yet they don't do a thing to help you find it. And they don't even care if you are ill treated or not.
Meanwhile I'm still trying to picture this five star hotel in the middle of nowhere where "stinking rich" Americans and Asians go for up to TWO WEEKS at a time paying $500 a night for a room with no meals included, yet they stay there and dine at night for exhorbitant prices. It seems someone here should know of this place -- I surely don't, but even more puzzling is why anyone who was "stinking rich" would do such a thing? Wouldn't they usually be in city hotel, a chateau where all meals are included, or some similar place? And why in the world would they stay there for 2 full weeks? This is all just SO bizarre.
Meanwhile, I'm sorry we've gotten so far off track, mariposa, but your original thought about why you didn't get tips has certainly been well answered.
Meanwhile I'm still trying to picture this five star hotel in the middle of nowhere where "stinking rich" Americans and Asians go for up to TWO WEEKS at a time paying $500 a night for a room with no meals included, yet they stay there and dine at night for exhorbitant prices. It seems someone here should know of this place -- I surely don't, but even more puzzling is why anyone who was "stinking rich" would do such a thing? Wouldn't they usually be in city hotel, a chateau where all meals are included, or some similar place? And why in the world would they stay there for 2 full weeks? This is all just SO bizarre.
Meanwhile, I'm sorry we've gotten so far off track, mariposa, but your original thought about why you didn't get tips has certainly been well answered.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 02:19 AM
#31
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"mariposa, while I somewhat sympathize with your alleged plight, much does not seem to add up. For one thing, I am very curious about a 5* hotel "near" (?) Paris, with "no buses, trains, taxis"??? How do guests arrive and depart? Yourself?"
Whenever I saw guests arriving it was in their own car (most people from the UK, Belgium, etc seemed to drive, it makes sense as a car is needed in this area) and those who didn't got a taxi all the way from Paris! I was picked up at the nearest station by the hotel porter.
"Whenever I've booked a hotel in Paris, rate is typically quoted "including taxes and service". I never gave the "service" part much thought. A few years ago, I realized at CDG that I'd neglected to leave a tip for housekeeping. When we returned home, I e-mailed the hotel, explaining that I had forgotten to leave a gratuity in the room for the housekeeping staff, and inquired as to the best way to send same. The reply was "This will not be necessary, Madame, as all service was included in your bill".
I don't know how much those maids were paid, evidently the management assumed they earned enough!
"As for tips in restaurants the "stinking rich" patronize (along with all others), those in the know understand that "service comprise" means just that. Those not in the know, tip anyway. Just as we've previously done."
Possibly all the customers knew service was included? I don't know.
"Locals we've conversed with in Paris have all told us that tipping (for housekeeping, in restaurants) is simply not required, and that Americans who tip anyway, because they're used to doing so or are feeling generous, are "seen as flagrantly throwing their money around". They've told us the exceptions include leaving (very) small change at a cafe, taxi drivers, and bartenders (where prices are not service compris). I've learned that if we pay with a credit card and add a gratuity, the waiter does not receive it. (Which would probably explain the rolling of the eyes and "sniff" whenever we've done this.)"
No, I don't think the waiter does receive it, better not to bother leaving anything.
"If this truly was some sort of college requirement, surely everyone else encountered similar difficulties?"
A lot of people only pretended they had pre arranged the job and actually went to France in person to look for one, in areas away from Paris. My parents didn't want me to do that and to be honest I felt it was easier to have something arranged in case I didn't manage to find anything. A lot of students just do a French course for 3 months, I am not in a financial position to fund it so I had to work.
"Perhaps there is a good reason for this requirement? Sounds a bit odd to me, anyway. Why France? Somehow your comments regarding your "department" seem quite implausible."
Ummm, the reason is to practice French in a 'realistic environment', I study French (maybe it wasn't obvious, I don't think I mentioned it). Spending time in the country is a requirement to get the degree.
"To me, freshening up rooms, bringing flowers, conversing with guests, translating (though you never mentioned being fluent in French), just does not seem like difficult work. Being away from home, lodging at the facility, one would think you would enjoy this. Especially since your were "stuck" on the property 24/7."
Sorry, but have you ever worked as a maid? There is nothing remotely enjoyable about it. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, but the freshening up the rooms and bringing stuff was only my evening task. From 8.30-4pm I was cleaning all the bathrooms and some of the bedrooms, it is exhausting work and the last thing I felt like doing afterwards was working again. We were not told of ANY evening work by the owner, we were led to believe this was a standard 9-5 job. The job is so bad that a new maid quit after one day, and she didn't even have to do any evening work!
"All in all, you knew what you were getting into. I have great difficulty believing that staff accomodations and meals were so dismal in a 5* property."
I had a very good idea, I knew it would be hard work but I didn't know we would be mistreated nor forced to work every evening. You will have to take my word for it when I say the meals were often dismal, not always but very very often. It was always something frozen heated up in the oven and sometimes the kitchen staff didn't know what meat it was, and we had quiche which was still frozen in the middle on more than one occasion.
"The long term staff were properly paid" seems a bit of a give-away to your otherwise allegedly sincere and beautifully detailed tale..."
Why is that? In order for the longterm staff to be properly paid, the students and young staff were paid almost nothing. NO-ONE would work long term as a maid without a proper salary, and its worth paying for a couple of reliable maids who will stick around for 10 years. The head maid herself told me this. The older staff who worked long term, such as receptionists, porter, were paid reasonably, as far as I know.
"Also curious is your "reluctance" to name this place.
I would suspect that you are referring to Barbizon, where I know of no 5* hotels, or restaurants, rather just several hostelleries and B&B's...and do not recall any lodgings which would have such a huge staff or fine dining restaurant..."
Spot on, but you're wrong, there are a couple of 5 star hotels around there (in France its a 4 star, thats the highest rating there). I consider an establishment where up to 1000 euro a night is paid, a top hotel. I didn't say there was a huge staff, maybe around 50, a high proportion of which are students.
"If you were called upon to "translate", I cannot imagine that you would be so paranoid that your complaints would be discovered herein..."
The owners spoke perfect English but they went home at 5 every day! Do you think they were hanging around until 10.30 at night??
Whenever I saw guests arriving it was in their own car (most people from the UK, Belgium, etc seemed to drive, it makes sense as a car is needed in this area) and those who didn't got a taxi all the way from Paris! I was picked up at the nearest station by the hotel porter.
"Whenever I've booked a hotel in Paris, rate is typically quoted "including taxes and service". I never gave the "service" part much thought. A few years ago, I realized at CDG that I'd neglected to leave a tip for housekeeping. When we returned home, I e-mailed the hotel, explaining that I had forgotten to leave a gratuity in the room for the housekeeping staff, and inquired as to the best way to send same. The reply was "This will not be necessary, Madame, as all service was included in your bill".
I don't know how much those maids were paid, evidently the management assumed they earned enough!
"As for tips in restaurants the "stinking rich" patronize (along with all others), those in the know understand that "service comprise" means just that. Those not in the know, tip anyway. Just as we've previously done."
Possibly all the customers knew service was included? I don't know.
"Locals we've conversed with in Paris have all told us that tipping (for housekeeping, in restaurants) is simply not required, and that Americans who tip anyway, because they're used to doing so or are feeling generous, are "seen as flagrantly throwing their money around". They've told us the exceptions include leaving (very) small change at a cafe, taxi drivers, and bartenders (where prices are not service compris). I've learned that if we pay with a credit card and add a gratuity, the waiter does not receive it. (Which would probably explain the rolling of the eyes and "sniff" whenever we've done this.)"
No, I don't think the waiter does receive it, better not to bother leaving anything.
"If this truly was some sort of college requirement, surely everyone else encountered similar difficulties?"
A lot of people only pretended they had pre arranged the job and actually went to France in person to look for one, in areas away from Paris. My parents didn't want me to do that and to be honest I felt it was easier to have something arranged in case I didn't manage to find anything. A lot of students just do a French course for 3 months, I am not in a financial position to fund it so I had to work.
"Perhaps there is a good reason for this requirement? Sounds a bit odd to me, anyway. Why France? Somehow your comments regarding your "department" seem quite implausible."
Ummm, the reason is to practice French in a 'realistic environment', I study French (maybe it wasn't obvious, I don't think I mentioned it). Spending time in the country is a requirement to get the degree.
"To me, freshening up rooms, bringing flowers, conversing with guests, translating (though you never mentioned being fluent in French), just does not seem like difficult work. Being away from home, lodging at the facility, one would think you would enjoy this. Especially since your were "stuck" on the property 24/7."
Sorry, but have you ever worked as a maid? There is nothing remotely enjoyable about it. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, but the freshening up the rooms and bringing stuff was only my evening task. From 8.30-4pm I was cleaning all the bathrooms and some of the bedrooms, it is exhausting work and the last thing I felt like doing afterwards was working again. We were not told of ANY evening work by the owner, we were led to believe this was a standard 9-5 job. The job is so bad that a new maid quit after one day, and she didn't even have to do any evening work!
"All in all, you knew what you were getting into. I have great difficulty believing that staff accomodations and meals were so dismal in a 5* property."
I had a very good idea, I knew it would be hard work but I didn't know we would be mistreated nor forced to work every evening. You will have to take my word for it when I say the meals were often dismal, not always but very very often. It was always something frozen heated up in the oven and sometimes the kitchen staff didn't know what meat it was, and we had quiche which was still frozen in the middle on more than one occasion.
"The long term staff were properly paid" seems a bit of a give-away to your otherwise allegedly sincere and beautifully detailed tale..."
Why is that? In order for the longterm staff to be properly paid, the students and young staff were paid almost nothing. NO-ONE would work long term as a maid without a proper salary, and its worth paying for a couple of reliable maids who will stick around for 10 years. The head maid herself told me this. The older staff who worked long term, such as receptionists, porter, were paid reasonably, as far as I know.
"Also curious is your "reluctance" to name this place.
I would suspect that you are referring to Barbizon, where I know of no 5* hotels, or restaurants, rather just several hostelleries and B&B's...and do not recall any lodgings which would have such a huge staff or fine dining restaurant..."
Spot on, but you're wrong, there are a couple of 5 star hotels around there (in France its a 4 star, thats the highest rating there). I consider an establishment where up to 1000 euro a night is paid, a top hotel. I didn't say there was a huge staff, maybe around 50, a high proportion of which are students.
"If you were called upon to "translate", I cannot imagine that you would be so paranoid that your complaints would be discovered herein..."
The owners spoke perfect English but they went home at 5 every day! Do you think they were hanging around until 10.30 at night??
Aug 23rd, 2005, 02:34 AM
#32
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"I'm also really concerned about this college you go to. They "require" you to do this kind of work, yet they don't do a thing to help you find it. And they don't even care if you are ill treated or not. "
My department is known for being unhelpful and uncaring. They expect us to find our own work and deal with it, as we're adults. It seems very hard to believe to someone who doesn't go there but it's true. It's a very good, well known college as well, which could be part of the reason they are so snotty. If they lose a couple of students (and they lose several every year), they don't care, plenty of people want to study there. Sad but true.
"Meanwhile I'm still trying to picture this five star hotel in the middle of nowhere where "stinking rich" Americans and Asians go for up to TWO WEEKS at a time paying $500 a night for a room with no meals included, yet they stay there and dine at night for exhorbitant prices. It seems someone here should know of this place -- I surely don't, but even more puzzling is why anyone who was "stinking rich" would do such a thing? Wouldn't they usually be in city hotel, a chateau where all meals are included, or some similar place? And why in the world would they stay there for 2 full weeks? This is all just SO bizarre."
I honestly don't know why anyone would stay there, there is nothing to do. I can only assume they want a quiet, peaceful holiday in a picturesque little village. Most of the guests had or hired a car or at least a bike and visited the nearby towns. I guess that's some peoples cup of tea - the American family seemed to love it!
Most of the guests only stayed around 2 nights, it was rare for someone to stay 2 weeks. I really don't know what that family was thinking. They seemed to enjoy it though, just relaxing all day.
As horrendous as my experience was, I'm sort of glad I did it. I think everyone should be a maid for a while, it really made me appreciate my normal life where all I do is study and teach English to foreign students! Although they mistreated us, I feel bad for the long term maids as they are so unhappy and dying to leave but they can't get another job. I really would hate for that job to be my life and from now on when I stay in a hotel I'm going to leave it spotless so the maids have less work because I still remember how much I appreciated finding a clean room! Some people were too foul to even empty their own bath!
My department is known for being unhelpful and uncaring. They expect us to find our own work and deal with it, as we're adults. It seems very hard to believe to someone who doesn't go there but it's true. It's a very good, well known college as well, which could be part of the reason they are so snotty. If they lose a couple of students (and they lose several every year), they don't care, plenty of people want to study there. Sad but true.
"Meanwhile I'm still trying to picture this five star hotel in the middle of nowhere where "stinking rich" Americans and Asians go for up to TWO WEEKS at a time paying $500 a night for a room with no meals included, yet they stay there and dine at night for exhorbitant prices. It seems someone here should know of this place -- I surely don't, but even more puzzling is why anyone who was "stinking rich" would do such a thing? Wouldn't they usually be in city hotel, a chateau where all meals are included, or some similar place? And why in the world would they stay there for 2 full weeks? This is all just SO bizarre."
I honestly don't know why anyone would stay there, there is nothing to do. I can only assume they want a quiet, peaceful holiday in a picturesque little village. Most of the guests had or hired a car or at least a bike and visited the nearby towns. I guess that's some peoples cup of tea - the American family seemed to love it!
Most of the guests only stayed around 2 nights, it was rare for someone to stay 2 weeks. I really don't know what that family was thinking. They seemed to enjoy it though, just relaxing all day.
As horrendous as my experience was, I'm sort of glad I did it. I think everyone should be a maid for a while, it really made me appreciate my normal life where all I do is study and teach English to foreign students! Although they mistreated us, I feel bad for the long term maids as they are so unhappy and dying to leave but they can't get another job. I really would hate for that job to be my life and from now on when I stay in a hotel I'm going to leave it spotless so the maids have less work because I still remember how much I appreciated finding a clean room! Some people were too foul to even empty their own bath!
Aug 23rd, 2005, 04:55 AM
#33
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- "I've always thought it was the norm to tip maids, no matter the country."
- "I do not understand how a five star hotel, anywhere, could have a waitstaff who did not receive tips?"
I know this is the Europe forum - but in view of the above generalisations, in the Asia-Pacific countries I've visited, maids and waitstaff are typically aren't tipped, or tipped small amounts (unless perhaps by unwary Americans).
In my own country the wages and conditions of most service staff are protected by agreements negotiated by their unions and given the force of law by industrial tribunals. Diners and lodgers, knowing this, generally see no more reason to tip a waiter/ waitress than a shop assistant or train ticket seller.
I'll admit to having tipped an Australian waiter or two in my time, but that was when I was both suitably mellow and had the company credit card.
I'd never heard of leaving a tip for the chambermaid before visiting the US.
mariposa, in my small experience it's often the stinking rich that are the tightest.
- "I do not understand how a five star hotel, anywhere, could have a waitstaff who did not receive tips?"
I know this is the Europe forum - but in view of the above generalisations, in the Asia-Pacific countries I've visited, maids and waitstaff are typically aren't tipped, or tipped small amounts (unless perhaps by unwary Americans).
In my own country the wages and conditions of most service staff are protected by agreements negotiated by their unions and given the force of law by industrial tribunals. Diners and lodgers, knowing this, generally see no more reason to tip a waiter/ waitress than a shop assistant or train ticket seller.
I'll admit to having tipped an Australian waiter or two in my time, but that was when I was both suitably mellow and had the company credit card.
I'd never heard of leaving a tip for the chambermaid before visiting the US.
mariposa, in my small experience it's often the stinking rich that are the tightest.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 05:02 AM
#34
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"...maids and waitstaff are typically aren't tipped, or tipped small amounts"
- Sorry, should have edited. That should read "maids and waitstaff typically aren't tipped or are tipped only small amounts".
ira, maybe I should add that in this context "tipping" is an activity that the maid's brothers shouldn't take exception to.
- Sorry, should have edited. That should read "maids and waitstaff typically aren't tipped or are tipped only small amounts".
ira, maybe I should add that in this context "tipping" is an activity that the maid's brothers shouldn't take exception to.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 06:33 AM
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Mariposa85, ok, this is like shutting the barn door after the horse has left, but you should have spoken up the first time the boss took advantage of you.
I'm guessing you're around 18-20. Grew up trying to please teachers and parents. The boss know this and uses it to his/her advantage. Since you agreed the first time, they did it again and again and again.
Did you not ever mention the urine soaked mattresses, the bug infested shower? Did you document any of this?
Lousy job, lesson learned. Don't let it happen again.
And the people might have tipped, you just didn't get the money.
I'm guessing you're around 18-20. Grew up trying to please teachers and parents. The boss know this and uses it to his/her advantage. Since you agreed the first time, they did it again and again and again.
Did you not ever mention the urine soaked mattresses, the bug infested shower? Did you document any of this?
Lousy job, lesson learned. Don't let it happen again.
And the people might have tipped, you just didn't get the money.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 07:36 AM
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Of course we mentioned it, we were told that all the other staff didn't complain and many foreign students had stayed there before us and been happy with it. I really don't see how that could have been true, as neither of us have high standards at all and neither of us are tidy people but that was the owners excuse. She said the food must be fine because the other staff ate it (but SHE never ate it, nor the chef!)
It sounds awful now but we were afraid of getting fired and we had no other place to work. I'm the first to think people are crazy to stay in situations like that but we honestly felt like we had no choice. The head maid kept telling us to leave if we didnt like the workload or the way she treated us, knowing we wouldn't because we couldn't. We figured we'd just stick it out since it was only for a few months. I don't have to worry about being in that situation again because I'll never again be obliged to stay in a country. In the future I can always just come home and get another job if it doesn't work out.
It sounds awful now but we were afraid of getting fired and we had no other place to work. I'm the first to think people are crazy to stay in situations like that but we honestly felt like we had no choice. The head maid kept telling us to leave if we didnt like the workload or the way she treated us, knowing we wouldn't because we couldn't. We figured we'd just stick it out since it was only for a few months. I don't have to worry about being in that situation again because I'll never again be obliged to stay in a country. In the future I can always just come home and get another job if it doesn't work out.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 07:38 AM
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BTW it did occur to us that the guests had tipped and the head maids were taking the money but often we were the first ones to go into a room that had been vacated, and we never found anything except for one 2 euro piece, once. I don't see how anyone could have gone in and taken a tip meant for us. Otherwise I'd definitely assume the other maids were taking them.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 10:07 AM
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I don't find the scenario so strange -I think lots of folks on Fodors talk about staying in these fancy country chateaux here and there on their vacations. Lots of those places have no public transportation. It would be strange for people to stay in a place like that for weeks, it's usually a couple days.
I think a lot of countries, France included, can take advantage of student situations for cheap labor. I've never heard of this kind of summer job for a college, though, unless the requirement was just to get a job in a foreign country, or perhaps a major in the hotel industry.
I've had crummy jobs I hated also, and you do learn something upon looking back, even if what things to look out for and what you don't like about certain jobs.
I don't think rich people are really cheap, actually, and don't think that was the issue. I'm still surprised there were no tips, but probably because staying in a luxury hotel out in the middle of nowhere does feel more like an all-inclusive type vacation than when you stay in a city hotel a few days (even if it wasn't literally) and go out to independent restaurants. They probably just charged things to the room, that kind of thing. I have never stayed in such a place and never will, I'm sure, as I don't have that kind of money, so am not sure how people who often do that feel about tipping.
I don't like the whole tipping culture and don't approve of it at all. It doesn't really make a lot of sense in many cases, either. I have literally never had a maid do anything in any room I've stayed in that I would perceive as extra or special service. If I did, I suppose I would tip for that if it were unusual. I am very clean and don't ever make any mess or cause them hardly any work, though.
France has minimum wage laws, and the wages are higher than in the US, but those kind of student relationships including room and board are no doubt outside the rules. Even in the US which is a tipping culture, the hotel maids in the city where I live earn about $10-12 an hour base pay in a 4* hotel (and not the deluxe 4* ones). I read an article about that, and that was the average here--I think some of them do have unions, not sure.
I was an intern in NY city at Bloomingdale's for my college degree (retail management), and I got paid a lot less than regular employees, also, and of course got nothing free in terms of room or board. I was glad to get anything, as it was counting as a semester's credit, so I was just viewing it as a school requirement. I had to work 6 days a week, and 2-3 of those were 10-12 hour days also, which is common in retail around Christmas. Now that's an example of why tipping only certain jobs makes no sense -- store clerks don't make much money at all and often work very long hours and are on their feet almost all day, and yet they never get tips.
I think a lot of countries, France included, can take advantage of student situations for cheap labor. I've never heard of this kind of summer job for a college, though, unless the requirement was just to get a job in a foreign country, or perhaps a major in the hotel industry.
I've had crummy jobs I hated also, and you do learn something upon looking back, even if what things to look out for and what you don't like about certain jobs.
I don't think rich people are really cheap, actually, and don't think that was the issue. I'm still surprised there were no tips, but probably because staying in a luxury hotel out in the middle of nowhere does feel more like an all-inclusive type vacation than when you stay in a city hotel a few days (even if it wasn't literally) and go out to independent restaurants. They probably just charged things to the room, that kind of thing. I have never stayed in such a place and never will, I'm sure, as I don't have that kind of money, so am not sure how people who often do that feel about tipping.
I don't like the whole tipping culture and don't approve of it at all. It doesn't really make a lot of sense in many cases, either. I have literally never had a maid do anything in any room I've stayed in that I would perceive as extra or special service. If I did, I suppose I would tip for that if it were unusual. I am very clean and don't ever make any mess or cause them hardly any work, though.
France has minimum wage laws, and the wages are higher than in the US, but those kind of student relationships including room and board are no doubt outside the rules. Even in the US which is a tipping culture, the hotel maids in the city where I live earn about $10-12 an hour base pay in a 4* hotel (and not the deluxe 4* ones). I read an article about that, and that was the average here--I think some of them do have unions, not sure.
I was an intern in NY city at Bloomingdale's for my college degree (retail management), and I got paid a lot less than regular employees, also, and of course got nothing free in terms of room or board. I was glad to get anything, as it was counting as a semester's credit, so I was just viewing it as a school requirement. I had to work 6 days a week, and 2-3 of those were 10-12 hour days also, which is common in retail around Christmas. Now that's an example of why tipping only certain jobs makes no sense -- store clerks don't make much money at all and often work very long hours and are on their feet almost all day, and yet they never get tips.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 10:14 AM
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I think what so many people are focusing on here is that mariposa posted this mainly as a "complaint" about how nobody tipped at this place. I think her complaint was misquided. In further messages we've all come to realize that it was the treatment, pay, and living conditions of this job that were the real issues. I think she was complaining about the wrong thing!
Instead of our all being outraged that she wasn't tipped, most of us have explained why we aren't surprised at all and even explained why she wouldn't be tipped. But meanwhile most of us have been outraged instead by this unbelievable place and treatment that in most civilized countries should be closed down.
Instead of our all being outraged that she wasn't tipped, most of us have explained why we aren't surprised at all and even explained why she wouldn't be tipped. But meanwhile most of us have been outraged instead by this unbelievable place and treatment that in most civilized countries should be closed down.
Aug 23rd, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Hi, mariposa,
Sorry for your bad experience. I can sympathisize somewhat, having done an elective in another country, and give you insight from the other side as a guest.
I also worked for very little money. I was provided with lodging and the experience was considered part of the pay. But I had my evenings off to play (there were lots of other people of similar age around).
Like other readers, I am surprised about how you were treated, given how the French seem to be so proud of their working conditions (shorter work week, more vacations, decent pay). I am surprised that EU rules don't apply to all workers - whether they are French or not.
Were you looking for more pay? Is that the reason for the tip question? I just accepted the low pay as part of the exchange of learning and gaining experience as a student. It was the same for other students at my school who went on away electives (some only got lodging and board!).
My uni cared a lot about how I was treated. The last student reported a bad experience so they wanted to see what I had to say, with intents to pull the location if I also had bad reports (it was a problem with the previous student, not the location. I knew that student had A LOT of personal problems, so no worries about the location).
Now, commenting as a guest. I have not stayed in a lot of 5* hotels but any hotel I stayed in (5* included), I did NOT leave a tip if the bill (hotel or restaurant) said "servis compris" or equivalent. Because that is what that means - service fees, which include tips, are all included. I did as the natives did: leave some coins or round to nearest 0 or 5. Only if service was not included did I leave tips - again using the country's customs as my guidelines.
If the hotel you worked in stated "servis compris", I think it would have been unusual for you to see tips. If someone is going to visit outside a main city, I think you can assume that they have some experience traveling (most naive/new travelers stick to the well-beaten paths) and know the customs, including to look for that statement and what it means.
Sorry for your bad experience. I can sympathisize somewhat, having done an elective in another country, and give you insight from the other side as a guest.
I also worked for very little money. I was provided with lodging and the experience was considered part of the pay. But I had my evenings off to play (there were lots of other people of similar age around).
Like other readers, I am surprised about how you were treated, given how the French seem to be so proud of their working conditions (shorter work week, more vacations, decent pay). I am surprised that EU rules don't apply to all workers - whether they are French or not.
Were you looking for more pay? Is that the reason for the tip question? I just accepted the low pay as part of the exchange of learning and gaining experience as a student. It was the same for other students at my school who went on away electives (some only got lodging and board!).
My uni cared a lot about how I was treated. The last student reported a bad experience so they wanted to see what I had to say, with intents to pull the location if I also had bad reports (it was a problem with the previous student, not the location. I knew that student had A LOT of personal problems, so no worries about the location).
Now, commenting as a guest. I have not stayed in a lot of 5* hotels but any hotel I stayed in (5* included), I did NOT leave a tip if the bill (hotel or restaurant) said "servis compris" or equivalent. Because that is what that means - service fees, which include tips, are all included. I did as the natives did: leave some coins or round to nearest 0 or 5. Only if service was not included did I leave tips - again using the country's customs as my guidelines.
If the hotel you worked in stated "servis compris", I think it would have been unusual for you to see tips. If someone is going to visit outside a main city, I think you can assume that they have some experience traveling (most naive/new travelers stick to the well-beaten paths) and know the customs, including to look for that statement and what it means.
