mariposa85

I was wondering in which countries it is the norm to tip the maids in hotels and the waitstaff in restaurants? I ask because this summer I worked as a maid in a well known, 5 star hotel near Paris. During the entire 3 months I was there, I received one 2 euro piece once as a tip, and that was it (except for an American family giving me a bottle of wine but that was for exceptional service, i.e I was called at night, every night for 2 weeks to fix up their room and made a huge effort to talk to them etc)

The guests came from all over the world, a good proportion from the USA and Asia. The average room price was around 500 euros a night, yet I was never tipped and the waiters said the same. It just seemed really cheap considering that all the guests were obviously stinking rich. Maybe they thought we were just doing our job and didn't deserve extra? I was paid 600 euros a month for working 5 days a week, 8.30am-10pm, the price some of them paid for a room and many of the waitstaff were on work experience, working for free. I know that wasn't the guests fault but I was really surprised that more people didn't feel obliged to tip.

Was it because tipping isn't done in France? Would most people (even Americans) know this and therefore not tip?

ira

Hi m,

I hope it was a nice bottle of wine.

In Europe, in general, service personnel are paid much closer to a living wage than in the US.

The service charge and the VAT (through subsidies) takes the place of what in the US would be working for tips.

I tip for extra service.

I leave cash, because I found out that in most European countries a tip added to the CC is considered the property of the owner.

ira

PS, I once tipped a maid in Paris, and was almost caught by her older brother.

Patrick

Having lived in Ireland recently for a year and a half, it seems you probably should have suspected that most people don't tip for service. Did the hotel suggest when they hired you that you would receive tips and that's why the salary was so low? I'm not sure why you would expect tips, but of course, they are nice when you get them. I'm frankly surprised that you didn't get more than one tip in 3 months in a 5 star hotel -- amazed is more like it -- but as you probably knew when you took the job (or should have known or checked) tips would not be expected.

I'll refrain from making comments regarding your obviously negative opinion of your clients being "stinking rich".

Meanwhile I'd check to see if there's someone you can report this too. A five star hotel in Paris hiring you full time for about 2 euro an hour sounds highly unethical if not illegal.

Christina

I am very surprised at that. Not necessarily that no one tipped the room maids (which may not be the custom), but not even the waiters in the restaurants at a 5* hotel? I see people tipping a bit here and there just in bistros in Paris. I don't know about Asia where it may not be common, but if a lot of the people in this 5* hotel were Americans, I am just very surprised they didn't tip at all

Maybe they think if I pay 500 euro a night to a hotel, they can darn well pay the help to clean the room, that should be some "extra service" I should have to pay for. That's the way I feel, I wouldn't tip either. I am more likely to tip in a modest place where I think they may not get paid as much.

I suspect there is more to the story as to what your situation was and the benefits. For example, you state that some of the waiters were on "work experience" which sounds like some internship program or something. Well, guess what -- a lot of "interns" in the US where I live don't get paid anything for doing fulltime jobs, the experience is supposed to be their pay.

As for your work, well, if you didn't think that pay was enough, you shouldn't have taken the job, and you should ask the hotel about average tips for employees in your position, they ought to have some idea. You must have interviewed or at least asked about the job, the person in charge of room cleaning staff should have told you if you asked.

ira

Hi M,

>I was paid 600 euros a month for working 5 days a week, 8.30am-10pm, ..<

You worked 67 hr/wk in France?!!!

What agency arranged this?

MomKJC

On the tipping topic I(actually daughter) discovered this summer in France that several of the guides we had were co-op students form universities not being paid for their work. Much like an internship. As soon as we became aware of this we started to ask the guides and if they were co-op/interns we tipped. Our tips were about 5Euros each.
My daughter was employed in France this summer and could only work 35 hours per week. I thought this was the law in France. I know her employer was very careful about the hours she worked.
I know that tipping is not the European way but I do it. I don't have lots of money but having had a kid in the service industry in the UK know how little they make!

Patrick

ira, exactly. And if you take the math to the next level you'll see how I arrived at that 2 euro an hour pay figure. Is this legal or possible in Paris? Why would anyone return to work the second week? Something seems amiss here.

tcreath

Honestly I have never tipped at any hotel and didn't even realize that people sometimes did this until I started posting on this site. Then, because I felt extremely quilty and cheap (was I supposed to be tipping all these years??), I asked several of my co-workers, none of which tip. It honestly never even entered my mind to tip. I do tip (and very graciously) for good service at restaurants, etc.

Tracy

mariposa85

"Having lived in Ireland recently for a year and a half, it seems you probably should have suspected that most people don't tip for service. Did the hotel suggest when they hired you that you would receive tips and that's why the salary was so low? I'm not sure why you would expect tips, but of course, they are nice when you get them. I'm frankly surprised that you didn't get more than one tip in 3 months in a 5 star hotel -- amazed is more like it -- but as you probably knew when you took the job (or should have known or checked) tips would not be expected."

I did not state that I expected to receive tips and that's why I took the job. I was merely surprised that I didn't get any, as you said yourself, it seems pretty unusual. When I came back one of the first things people asked was 'did you get good tips?' It's not the norm in Ireland, or in France but I expected that the American customers may have tipped, out of habit if nothing else.

"I'll refrain from making comments regarding your obviously negative opinion of your clients being "stinking rich".

This is a common phrase here, not really negative. We say it all the time, almost as a compliment. Maybe its our strange humour.

"Meanwhile I'd check to see if there's someone you can report this too. A five star hotel in Paris hiring you full time for about 2 euro an hour sounds highly unethical if not illegal."

mariposa85

"Having lived in Ireland recently for a year and a half, it seems you probably should have suspected that most people don't tip for service. Did the hotel suggest when they hired you that you would receive tips and that's why the salary was so low? I'm not sure why you would expect tips, but of course, they are nice when you get them. I'm frankly surprised that you didn't get more than one tip in 3 months in a 5 star hotel -- amazed is more like it -- but as you probably knew when you took the job (or should have known or checked) tips would not be expected."

I did not state that I expected to receive tips and that's why I took the job. I was merely surprised that I didn't get any, as you said yourself, it seems pretty unusual. When I came back one of the first things people asked was 'did you get good tips?' It's not the norm in Ireland, or in France but I expected that the American customers may have tipped, out of habit if nothing else.

"I'll refrain from making comments regarding your obviously negative opinion of your clients being "stinking rich".

This is a common phrase here, not really negative. We say it all the time, almost as a compliment. Maybe its our strange humour.

"Meanwhile I'd check to see if there's someone you can report this too. A five star hotel in Paris hiring you full time for about 2 euro an hour sounds highly unethical if not illegal."

We got food and board as well, so while the wages were still a pittance, this may be legal. We didn't really have much choice either way to be honest.

kappa

I was surprised that you have recieved no tips (except one time 2EURO) while working at a Paris hotel for 3 months.

I usually stay at 3*star hotels, maybe 4*, sometimes 2* and always leave average 1-2 Euro per day. These are when I travel to any Eropean countries and I live in Geneva, Switzerland.

The other day I was shocked to see my travel partner who shared a room with me left CHF20 bill for just a 2 night stay at a Swiss mountain 3*hotel. He is a Swiss. A funny thing is he tips much less to restaurant wait staff. He does tip but it's just CHF2-3 at average restaurant. If hotel maids are lowly paid (vs wait staff paid more decently), the way he tips may be right.

bookchick

Ira, LOL!

To the OP, I usually leave an envelope on the day I'm checking out. It will have a Euro or two for each day I've been there. I have in the past tipped the concierge for extraordinary service above and beyond the call of duty (when I was traveling with my cousin, and she became ill and required the treatment of a doctor), but the concierge at my favorite hotel in Rome refuses my tips, says it's enough to be of service to me. (What a work ethic!)

BC

Intrepid1

We always tip the housekeeping staff in European hotels, especially if we feel we have received excellent service.

Tipping remains pretty personal IMO, as does the definition of "excellent service."

The comments as to the wages paid folks in Europe seem accurate to me. I am reminded of a friend who lives in Switzerland whose high school age daughter announced one day that she wanted to take a "cleaning woman" position for the Summer.

Her Mother (born and raised in the USA) reports that she initially reacted with horror..until she found out how much her daughter would be MAKING in wages.

You will NEVER get some people to tip, even if you die for them...simple fact of life.

Eleni

I've always thought it was the norm to tip maids, no matter the country.

mariposa85

"I am very surprised at that. Not necessarily that no one tipped the room maids (which may not be the custom), but not even the waiters in the restaurants at a 5* hotel? I see people tipping a bit here and there just in bistros in Paris. I don't know about Asia where it may not be common, but if a lot of the people in this 5* hotel were Americans, I am just very surprised they didn't tip at all"

Thats exactly what I thought. It was more surprise than indignation.

"Maybe they think if I pay 500 euro a night to a hotel, they can darn well pay the help to clean the room, that should be some "extra service" I should have to pay for. That's the way I feel, I wouldn't tip either. I am more likely to tip in a modest place where I think they may not get paid as much."

Nothing wrong with that - I suspect that attitude may have been why hardly anyone tipped. I'm sure people assumed we were reasonably paid, given the cost of the rooms.

"I suspect there is more to the story as to what your situation was and the benefits. For example, you state that some of the waiters were on "work experience" which sounds like some internship program or something. Well, guess what -- a lot of "interns" in the US where I live don't get paid anything for doing fulltime jobs, the experience is supposed to be their pay."

Yes most of the waiters were on this type of internship, but a few were working 'normally' and were still paid very badly. In Ireland its normal even for 'work experience' kids to at least get a bit of pocket money, even 50 euro a month.

"As for your work, well, if you didn't think that pay was enough, you shouldn't have taken the job, and you should ask the hotel about average tips for employees in your position, they ought to have some idea. You must have interviewed or at least asked about the job, the person in charge of room cleaning staff should have told you if you asked."

In an ideal world I would have done that, however I had virtually no choice. I was obliged (for college) to spend 3 months minimum in France and to pre arrange the job before arrival. I literally applied EVERYWHERE and this was the only job I was offered. Unemployment is very very high in France and any decent jobs were going to French people. I had been told by French friends not to expect to find anything at all. I knew before I left what the salary would be, yet I was so desperate I was even happy to have anything. After I arrived I hated it and wanted to leave but I couldn't go home because of the obligation, nor could I find another job because I had no means of leaving this village. There were literally no buses, trains or taxis out of the place, and it would have been nearly impossible to find another post anyway at that stage. The money was the least of my problems to be honest, the food they served the staff was horrendous and too little and we were badly mistreated by the head maids. I just felt I had no other option.

I'm sure the situation is the same in many hotels - a lot of the ones I applied to paid a lot LESS than 600 euro a month - and some were without food and lodgings!! I know it seems hard to believe but its absolutely true. I'm not sure how legal it is, but it seems to be common practice in France to employ very young staff (some of the kitchen staff were as young as 14-15) on "work experience" or foreign students to work cheaply. Its definitely not ethical, but I don't know if its illegal.

I didn't work 67 hours a week, when I say 8.30-10pm, that included breaks of one hour for lunch and 3 for dinner, but I;m sure it was still well over the 35 hours. The kitchen staff definitely worked well over 35 hours, they arrived at 9 and stayed until 11pm. Not sure about their breaks.

tuscanlifeedit

Tipping hotel maids is something I hadn't even heard of until about 10 years ago. When I was growing up, in the Dark Ages, my family traveled a lot in the US, and they were huge tippers. But I never saw them leave a tip for the hotel housekeeping staff. Maybe it never occurred to them. I don't know...

Anyway, with the advent of Internet travel sites, I started to hear about tipping housekeeping, and now we always leave at least a small tip. Sometimes we leave things like local phone cards and subway cards. I don't know if these things are appreciated or not.

mariposa85

BTW what is the definition of 'excellent service'? A spotless cleaning job, maids who talk to you, bring you things...? I did consider once that maybe we weren't being tipped because we didn't seem to be doing anything special but the standard of the rooms was very, very high. Also we worked in the evening which is uncommon in many hotels. We changed laundry, remade the bed etc. Sometimes people would request us to bring things, toothpaste, flowers etc which would take time and effort to get/prepare, which we'd deliver face to face and we still didn't get any tips. It just seems very odd, especially since a fair number of people in this topic say they tip maids.

Patrick

"I'm sure the situation is the same in many hotels - a lot of the ones I applied to paid a lot LESS than 600 euro a month - and some were without food and lodgings!!"

Ah, a light starts to dawn. So you were provided with food and lodging in addition to the salary? That sure changes the total picture.

mariposa85

Patrick: Yes, although the lodgings were verging on uninhabitable by most peoples standards (outside shower full of insects, absolutely FOUL outside toilet, urine soaked mattresses) and the food was often barely edible and far to little. It barely cost them anything for us to live there, yet if we hadn't lived there, we would have paid 400 euro a month for a room. That's their little trick, and probably how they keep it 'legal'