What's happening? The menu at one restaurant said that the service or prix was "net". Unaccustomed to that term in France re prices, I asked (at Allard) if service was compris, and I was told that it was not. So, I left a "real tip", not just a little extra.
At Train Bleu, I asked about their policy, and the waiter told me that "service compris" did not mean the tip was included, that it had to do with the kitchen service, not waiters. So, again, we left a tip.

I have never had this experience before; perhaps my asking the question implied naivete. Nevertheless, I don't like to think I was taken advantage of, especially at places that are well known and have good reputations, etc.

I should add that my sister-in-law was admiring the china at Train Bleu with its little train logo, and the waiter slipped a bread and butter plate into her handbag as we left-- and I'm the one who paid the tip!

If the service is not included, you will see the mention Service non compris. Assume that the service is included. Some people add up to 10% to that, but I wonder if they would do the same thing in an American restaurant which automatically adds a service charge of 15 to 18% for parties of 6 or more.

Hi g,

Service charge is included unless it specifically says 'non compris'. There is no need for an additional tip unless service was above and beyond the call of duty.

From CityGuide for Paris

Tipping

Service charges are included on all restaurant bills at a cost of 10 to 15 percent. However, it is standard to add a little more if the meal and service have been exceptional. Tipping is not compulsory but drivers expect about 5-10% of the fare. It is common practice to give a small tip to Parisian porters, doormen, room service staff and ushers in cinemas and theatres.

Realize that if you ask any waiter in Paris "is the tip included" you will always be told NO. But if you ask "is service included" you were nearly always be told yes. A tip is considered something extra, not the service charge which is nearly always added into your bill or automatically included. Waiters in Paris are smart enough to know that a tip is not the same as service, which frankly is why some of them try extra hard to please Americans.

What you're all saying is what I assumed and the practice I've always followed in the past; but for the Train Bleu waiter to speak as though he wouldn't get any of the "service" was misleading. So he got a very nice tip!

grandmère - you are back! Was about to start a thread calling your name when I realized I hadn't heard from you in a while. I don't like the sound of this "net" bit. I think they might be trying to fleece naive, unsuspecting, unsavvy Americans who are used to leaving big tips.

PS - I just booked in at your alma mater CLE for 5 weeks!

We asked also "Is the tip included?" question and was told "no" but the menu did say "Service compris". But after that we knew better. If the menu says "Service Compris" or "Prix Net" then we know not to leave a tip amount as you do in the US, just a nominal amount.

I think it was just because you asked, so they knew you didn't know, especially since it was written on the menu.

It's pretty clear both Allard and Tran Bleu lied to you. I would never ask anyone's policy because it's the law for service to be included in France in restaurants, and it always says so on the menu anyway, I think it has to by law. I think I've seen the term "prix net" used fairly often in France, although perhaps even more for other things than in restaurants. It does mean basically the "bottom line price", the final price with things added in, in restaurants. In fact, a lot of times they will have the whole thing "service compris, prix net" It is used in B&Bs also to mean the price includes room and breakfast, things like that. Sometimes restaurants will have a "prix net" price for a formule, but will state that drinks or wine is "non compris" in that price, however.

I suppose they were claiming the regulated service charge to cover staff costs somehow only affects kitchen workers and not other workers -- ha ha, so that means they were essentially saying waiters' benefits, holidays and wages aren't regulated in France, which isn't true. There's no point into getting into semantic debates as to whether a tip is included in a service charge -- I think by basic definition of the term "tip", it cannot be assessed on a bill, by definition it means something extra you give above the bill. Even in the US, when some restaurants have a policy to charge a flat 15-20 pct service charge for large parties or something instead of leaving it up to the customer to decide, they call it a service charge on the bill. I wouldn't ever leave a tip in the US when the restaurant added on 15 pct, either.

At least you got a bread and butter plate, that's a nice souvenir. I wonder if the owner knows the waiter is giving them away to get tips.

t

Yep, I think we were "had". I thought I knew better!

Crepes a go go, I will be eager to hear of your stay in Tours at CLE. Mine was in 1994; I wonder if it has changed much. Five weeks is a good length of time; my two weeks was much too short but certainly worthwhile. Are you staying with a family or in an apartment? Make sure you write about it when you return; when do you go?

Those who can read French may appreciate this reply that I received when asking friends in France about tipping:

bien qu'en France le pourboire soit compté à 10% et soit compris dans la note, il est d'usage de laisser quelque chose, pour marquer en principe une éventuelle satisfaction. C'est donc souvent tout et n'importe quoi, très français, donc, et parfaitement ambigu, comme tout ce qui se pratique en espace latin.

The other three respondents said that they just pay the prix net.

That's what our French friends say: nothing extra is required. If fact, they were very irate when we told them that our waiter that day has told us that service was not included, when by law it must be.

It's customary to leave a little small change at a café, however.

Interesting to see that waiters at Allard are still pulling the same scam on patrons. The first time we dined there, about 15 years ago, we asked the same question, got the same answer.

Shortly thereafter we were told by French friends that a percentage to cover service is included BY LAW and if you're happy with the service you receive, a small additional amount is customary. This means anything from a few coins in cafés to as much as 20 euro for a splurge dinner, but typically not more than an additional five percent.

Michael: Gotta love those French...I think they get their slant from having all taken Philosophy as a required element during their education!

Don't feel bad grandmere, it happended to us , too, at a very good creperie on r. St. Andre des Arts...even though I knew all the aforementioned rules. I think Patrick hit the head on the nail--the French like "le mot precis", and we chose the wrong term. I chalked it up to experience and and let it go...even ate in the same creperie another visit, but the pourboire was what I wanted to leave extra for +service, not a percentage.

Christina: I'm not so sure it is the law to have the service fee included as much as to STATE clearly on the menu if it is/is not included in the prices shown. Perhaps others in the legal know can clarify.

And don't ask if the "tip" is included becuase they'll say "no" which is actually correct. So that's another thing. This misunderstanding happened in Strasbourg with us. We just paid to learn.

We were shocked to see a 15% TAX & SERVICE ADDED TO OUR BILL at the LUCAS CARTON in Paris. The menus were running at 250 t0 400 euros per person so we assumed service & tax were included until we got the bill !!
Now I wonder if they did so only to Americans after reading that there is actually a law to include tax & service in the price.

franocphile03 had the same experience as we did at Chatou, the famous, Fournaise. Later while having a digestif The owner sat with us and I said how surprised I was that his service was non complet and he explained that it was and maybe the waiter did not understand, hmm, maybe, but I rold him before we left, that it was generous and that the waitor should split it with the few others on duty for his lying or misunderstanding.

Cigalechanta, that's good you were able to mention what occured to the owner. I wonder if the tip was indeed shared?

Anyway, I think the waiters must be aware of the misunderstanding in "tip" and "service".

I perhaps have misunderstood a portion of the story in "From Here You Can't See Paris". The book written mainly about a small "starred" restaurant. What I understood from this book is the service on the bill is put to the general pool of paying wait staff, etc., their salaries. The restaurant/owner has to provide for the salaries and the benefits.(What restaurant in the USA pays bennies?) That said, then it was made clear to me, at least, that "tips" (money "to insure proper service&quot was specific to the waiter, and the sommalier...
I will tip the waiters and the sommolier... maybe not 20% of the total, but something on the "meal" total portion...