Cowboy1968

I guess the ongoing irritations about tipping in Europe result from two different meanings a "tip" has in either region.

In the US, you call your more or less voluntary payment of a non-existing service charge plus something on top the tip.
In Europe, we call the "something on top" the tip since the service charge is already included (certain exceptions exist).

If 15-20% was the range you usually tip in your region of the US, 15% would be more or less equivalent to "no tip" in Europe.
Maybe not down to the last dollar, euro or cent, but as a rough generalization or mindset.

kja

@ Cowboy: I think your comment is probably clear, but I also think it could be misread, so let me try to clarify; I trust you'll say so if I've misunderstand. I THINK what you mean is that by giving no tip in Europe, one is actually already giving about 15% for service because it's (generally) included in the bill. (The alternative interpretation of your words is that giving 15% in Europe is so low that it is the equivalent of not tipping at all -- and I don't think that's what you mean!)

bilboburgler

I was reading Frommers France yesterday (I know, but sometimes...) and the tipping section was so US centric it was frightening

Cricky, you don't tip, if you just paid 128Euro for a meal, you give the guys 130 and walk out.

However, where the tipping contamination has taken root, say 5 star central Rome hotels, you might be expected to follow US culture.

As we always say to Americans we meet on holiday. "How much do you tip your Accountant or Doctor?"

bvh

"How much do you tip your Accountant or Doctor?"

This is a false equivalency. It's not an intelligent comparison.

bilboburgler

"This is a false equivalency. It's not an intelligent comparison."

I suspect your and my perceptions are more to do with a cultural differences than an absolute truth.

I see accountants as providers of a service, like waiters. I suspect you perceive accountants as skilled and qualified well paid co-workers and waiters as de-skilled poorly paid juniors requiring motivation. Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought I should offer a thought.

Divergence of cultures are often perceived as lack of intelligence, it takes times to reorient those perceptions which one or two week holidays seldom offer.

What is intriguing is how this one subject "tipping" seem to engender the decline towards insults so quickly. That suggests that there is major conflict between the two views and both "sides" see their point of view as the "one true vision".

Given this struggle, the battles between Blefuscu and Lilliput make complete sense.

or as a friend of mine once said "eggsactly"

Whathello

Same thread as usual, with the same US comments from OP's :

I want to tip, I tip.
I'm waiting for being called - oh wait it has been done - curmudgeon - nice word btw.

These people are used to seeing waiters in their seventies living on tips. In mot of Europe, we get unemployment money, we get retirement money.

In Belgium - but it is certainly the same in Italy, the minimum you get from the state - regardless of what you've contributed in your past carreer is 14 080 € in 2015. That makes a few tips. Paid by my taxes, thank you.

http://www.onprvp.fgov.be/FR/profes/...s/default.aspx

So tip if you want to tip, and tell everybody we are greedy in Europe and don't give money to these poor waiters who have such a hard life. Since they are the only ones with hard lives.

Nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen, social workers workers of all kind are lazy guys and get enormous salraies.
Keep your money to tip the waiters, they are the only ones who deerve it. Ah, and yes, the chambermaids and the taxidrivers.

This being said, Goddess will tip. Visceral. And she'll feel good about it. She is the nice person on this board, not like these belgians who don't tip.

Curmudgeon.

vincenzo32951

In European restaurants, I generally take a fistful of $1 bills and throw them in the air when leaving. I love to watch the waiters tussle and grovel, especially the French ones.

goddesstogo

"In Europe, we call the "something on top" the tip since the service charge is already included (certain exceptions exist)."

This is clearly stated in the Fodors stuff I posted. And while I hesitate to speak for such a large group, I'm going to do it anyway and say that I think most travelers who've been to Italy once know about the service charge on the restaurant bill.

"What is intriguing is how this one subject "tipping" seem to engender the decline towards insults so quickly."

Exactly, bilbo.

There are plenty of subjects on these boards where people's opinions are vastly different. Not having participated in a tipping thread before, I was surprised at how quickly it became a knuckle duster.

I think I'll go with thursday's Lonely Planet info and my Fodors info. And I doubt that any service person in the tourist trade in Italy will be so ungracious as to give it back to me. And if they do, I'll take it and spend it elsewhere.

vincenzo32951

goddess: It sounds like you have a good handle on the issue. Getting info here requires sifting through the inevitable and oh-so-glib "what about doctors, accountants ..." posts mixed with the occasional anti-Yank sniping and essays on how USers have infected the once-pristine European culture. Not a big deal. That's how they get their exercise.

You're all good. I'd say your chances of deportation over inappropriate tipping are slim.

thursdaysd

It does seem that some/many Americans get a psychological benefit from tipping. The people who worry about whether they can wear shorts in southern Italy, or write about wanting "to experience the culture" or "live like a local" forget all about "when in Rome" when it comes to tipping. I have read a number of tipping threads, and have encountered people who adamantly refuse to conform to local norms in Europe. (Have no idea how they handle Japan, where a tip is something between an embarrassment and insult to the recipient, but they have totally changed expectations in parts of China when it comes to foreigners.)

Is it just that they are so used to tipping that it feels uncomfortable not to? Or does it give them an endorphin rush from feeling generous? Feeling "better than"?

I grew up in England, not tipping. I have lived in the US for forty years, and in the US I tip like an American (but grumble about it). At the beginning of a trip I do feel like I am doing something wrong when I don't tip according to American norms, although it quickly wears off. But I never feel that I am being generous when I tip in America, I am merely conforming to local custom, which is why I find it annoying that Americans are unwilling to do so in other countries.

Returning a tip is hardly ungracious!

Whathello

So goddess. In the end you just decided to tip.
So tip.
When I am in the US I don't have the choice to not tip. But you have the choice to tip in Europe. Good. Spend your money.
Have a nice trip.

It never cease to intrigue me that Americans seem to just have too much money or they are not taxed at about 60pc of what it cost their employers. Or they feel superior when throwing away their money.
But people are not accepted in hospitals if they don't provide financial info. Well. Different cultures I guess.
Better one for sure. But I was born in Europe.

I thought the question was how much tipping was expected in general.

But no it turned into i want to tip so how much should I tip.
So what about 50 percents ? Why limit yourself to a mere 20 pic that is expected in the US ? Be generous.

goddesstogo

"It never cease to intrigue me that Americans seem to just have too much money or they are not taxed at about 60pc of what it cost their employers. Or they feel superior when throwing away their money.
But people are not accepted in hospitals if they don't provide financial info. Well. Different cultures I guess."

You continue to assume I'm American. None of this applies to me but why would that matter to you. You just want to make your blanket assumptions.

"Is it just that they are so used to tipping that it feels uncomfortable not to?"

I'd say this is a good part of it.

"Or does it give them an endorphin rush from feeling generous? Feeling "better than"?"

Hardly. I don't think anyone gets an endorphin rush from giving the cabby a buck or two. I also don't think it's a matter of feeling better than anyone. Where I live we're aware of inconsistencies in payment for service people and in the minimum wage laws (e.g. restaurant servers are not covered under the minimum wage laws and depend heavily on tips). So no, not a matter of feeling better than but rather one of recognizing that restaurant servers have to pay rent and buy groceries like everyone else.

"But no it turned into i want to tip so how much should I tip.
So what about 50 percents ? Why limit yourself to a mere 20 pic that is expected in the US ? Be generous."

Sigh.

"When I am in the US I don't have the choice to not tip."

Of course you do. There's no law saying you have to tip. Tell the Server they don't tip in Belgium. I'm sure he'll understand. Probably give you a great big hug.

vincenzo32951

>>Sigh.<<

That you refuse to recognize the quick-witted comments here is a shame that you'll have to carry with you for eternity.

>>You continue to assume I'm American. None of this applies to me but why would that matter to you. <<

You don't get it. It doesn't matter what your nationality is when there's an opportunity for someone to comment on Americans and tipping. Threads about treatment for toenail fungus have been known to migrate into discussions of Americans and tipping.

goddesstogo

"Threads about treatment for toenail fungus have been known to migrate into discussions of Americans and tipping."

PalenQ

You don't want to tip? Don't tip. You want to tip? Do it.>

Why state the obvious?

But many Americans want to know if they MUST tip - if a tip is expected or not in terms of paying the servants' wages.

and beyond a shadow of a doubt in Italy and most of Europe tips are not normal. Yes you can do it and perpetuate the Americans throwing their moneys around myth but you do not have to.

Cowboy1968

@kja.. in case you still follow: Yes, that's what I meant. It was indeed a bit misleading the way I wrote it.

annw

I'm heading to Italy next weekend so was reading this thread to refresh my knowledge too!

I like to know the expectations around tipping elsewhere (am in the US).

Restaurants are the easy ones -- coperto/servicio inclulded, done--or possibly round up for outstanding service. Maybe round up on taxi fare. Sometimes leave a little for the maid but totally depends.

I assumed no tip for a car service, but then I read that Italians generally don't tip taxi drivers but do tip hired drivers.

What I do know is that if I tip, I certainly don't do so to feel generous, to feel better about myself, to throw my hard-earned money away or to feel superior!

I had internalized all about no tipping in New Zealand and then the Australian in our dinner party of three said, "I always tip!!" Go figure.

thursdaysd

So, why do you tip?

BritishCaicos

It's no longer worth buying popcorn to enjoy a Fodors tipping thread. So worn out.

The advice is as ever :

If you want to wave your national identity in Europe then :

Wear your bum bag, don't brush your hair and tip.

Nobody in Europe cares any more.

You're American and we accept that.

Whathello

Since you voted for Trump we have lost all hope ;-)