JJ5

I am not a right wing French basher. I am an economics major among other things, and France's economics aren't going to work. Period. Nor is any system that has a majority of the jobs defined and paid for through the governmental sector. And especially one with those kinds of tax levels and business owner regulations.

Where do you think the new jobs come from, Neil Oz?

Marilyn

Sarah, since I don't live there and don't follow French politics particularly closely, I'm not really saying it is or is not a "big leap." I'm just saying that those thoughts have got to be going through the minds of many French people, and I don't know that such paranoia, whether justified or not, is going to improve a tense situation. Rather, I think the general fear of terrorism and secret cells combined with the Moslem identity of the rioters is going to make a bad situation a lot worse.

Sarah

JJ5 this disenfranchaisement has been happening for about 4-5 decades. Now in an economy where merit is honored over ethnicity its not about making room for the grand and great grandchildren in the economy. In a culture that honors merit the skilled individual wins out. Just don't think you see divisions based on color when people share the pie based on merit.

We are so rarely looking at foreign governments, social groups, NEWS here in U.S! We kind of can't get our heads out of the sand on how we sort out these types of conflicts.

We are not dealing with this type of discrimination, on a national scale the way France is, so its difficult to comprehend (or remember) an economy that would exclude opportunities to generations based on color.

Sarah

Marilyn I don't think they have our take in that regard, to be quite honest. Look at that Zogby article if this interest you. I think it articulates what I am trying to say better.

Thanks for your response

Pauley

Sarah, why must you be so verbally belligerent towards other posters who do not necessarily share your world view of this situation? I trust you are an adult. It is not helpful to be so condescending. Play nice!

JJ5

Regardless of how you slice the pie, Sarah- all of these economic situations take periods of time to come "undone". Be it merit or color or what, enough jobs to make it work is still enough jobs to make it work. And not enough is still trouble.

And believe me, in Chicago and in my life I have seen color discrimination and understand BOTH sides of the story. Or actually if there are 5 or 6 cultures or "colors"- five or six different sides.

We have had similar problems in the USA cities everytime there's not enough jobs generated for any length of time.
We have had huge migrations for work that "wasn't" there as well.

All of the discrimination in culture or color wouldn't matter as much if there were expansion possibilities.

And in this case you have a dominant culture which prides itself on its purity. This spark will fuel the economic reality. But the economic reality is still the base problem.

Mary_Fran

I'm enjoying and learning from this thread. There really are lots of smart, thoughtful posters on Fodors. No one needs to step in and chastize anyone else for being "belligerent" or "condescending" when folks are merely expressing different points of view.

These types of threads are great, until the far left and far right show up and start pushing their respective agendas and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with their extreme and simplistic points of view.

cigalechanta

I agree with you Mary_Fran, same thing happens when you mention a village or a restaurant you love, a few will always say, oh no that one is terrible.
A forum is by definition a place for open discussion and all should b welcomed with their imput. You can't argue with someone who disagrees with you. So ignore.

perk

I wonder if the Germans ever changed their laws....regarding who is German...used to be based on your blood. They used to not consider Turks born in their own country as Germans.

logos999

>..used to be based on your blood
The law hasn't been changed and people are quite happy with it. If you're a 2nd generation immigrant, it's you who has to decide what you prefer. It makes people use their brains when they're gown up and decide what they want. Do I feel I'm German or don't I. You get the german notionality only if you make the descision YOURSELF!

111op

Haven't really followed these threads, so I'll just post this at random here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/tr...92&ei=5070

"For Tourists, A Calmer Paris"

For a city under siege, Paris, in its center, is oddly pleasant these days. The big department stores throb with shoppers. Strollers throng the Champs-Elysées. Outdoor cafes buzz with people taking advantage of the unseasonably seductive mid-autumn sun.

etc.

Sorry if this isn't appropriate, but maybe someone else can post this on the various Paris riot threads that've been going on. I need to read the rest.

Mary_Fran

Pauly! If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize. I just really do enjoy a thoughtful thread such as this one, but in the back of my mind I'm always wondering when the whackos will show up and start insulting other posters and sink the thread.

Mary_Fran

I bookmarked this link of creative insults (http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/i...l#intelligence), but everytime I open it up looking for just the right creative putdown, I end up sidetracked and laughing for the next hour and forget what originally got my dander up.

Now, can we get back on topic? Or are we done "discussing?"

Madison

I know I am going to catch hell for this but if the unemployment rate is so high why are the unemployed continuing to have children? Why bring them up in a society that they think is racist? It just doesn't make sense. It's not fair to the children.

I live in California where there are a lot of minorities, many different nationalities some here legally, some here illegally. They are having a hard time making ends meet yet they continue to have children and I am not talking about one child either.