Thoughts on our itinerary
May 11th, 2006, 09:53 PM
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Thoughts on our itinerary
We are traveling to Germany in the summer,for about 6 days, as part of a four week trip. Please take a look at our itinerary and let me know what you think. I am beginning to have second thoughts, especially about going down to the Fussen area, as it will add about 6-8 hours of driving. As you can tell from our name, we will be traveling with kids. Thanks!
1- Arrive in Frankfurt Airport, 7 PM. rent car, drive to Speyer, Overnight in Speyer
2 Tour Speyer, Heidelburg Castle (only), short cruise on the Neckar River, overnight in Stuttgardt
3 –Stuttgart seeing the Mercedes Museum and the Fossil Museum, ?/ Art Museum, Bebenhausen Monastery. Overnight Tubingen
4 - Lichtenstein Castle, Marbach Stables, Hohenzollern Castle in Hechingen and then on to Fussen. If arrive early enough, Wierke Church, Go to Alps Overnight in Area
5 – Do the 2 Castles. If time, Linderoff Palace. Drive around area. Wireke if not already done. Drive and see Ulm Cathedral if time. On to Rothenburg. Overnight in Rothenburg.
6 – Rothenburg – On to Wurzburg. Visit Wurzburg. Drive overnight Mainz.
7 –Guttenberg Museum, head to airport. 2:00 PM flight.
1- Arrive in Frankfurt Airport, 7 PM. rent car, drive to Speyer, Overnight in Speyer
2 Tour Speyer, Heidelburg Castle (only), short cruise on the Neckar River, overnight in Stuttgardt
3 –Stuttgart seeing the Mercedes Museum and the Fossil Museum, ?/ Art Museum, Bebenhausen Monastery. Overnight Tubingen
4 - Lichtenstein Castle, Marbach Stables, Hohenzollern Castle in Hechingen and then on to Fussen. If arrive early enough, Wierke Church, Go to Alps Overnight in Area
5 – Do the 2 Castles. If time, Linderoff Palace. Drive around area. Wireke if not already done. Drive and see Ulm Cathedral if time. On to Rothenburg. Overnight in Rothenburg.
6 – Rothenburg – On to Wurzburg. Visit Wurzburg. Drive overnight Mainz.
7 –Guttenberg Museum, head to airport. 2:00 PM flight.
May 12th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Day 1 is OK; For thje rest of your trip you are cramming too many things into one day.
Day 2: Drive to Heidelberg (note spelling of this and some of your other sites) Visit castle. Skip boat ride, instead drive along the Neckar (Route B-37, also known as the Burgenstrasse/Castle Route) to Heilbronn and on to Tuebingen. For your kind of short visit, your itinerary for Stuttgart is really not the best use of yourtime.
You can drive from Heilbronn to Tuebingen either along the Neckar on the B-27, Autobahn A-81, by-passing Stuttgart and getting off the A-81 at exit 23, taking the B-464 to Tuebingen, or you can go from Heilbronn a short way east on the A-6 and take the A-81 all the way to exit 26.
Spend the "Stuttgart" day you have gained in the Tuebingen area, visiting at least some of the sites (Hechenstein, etc.)as you had planned originally for day 4.
Day 4:This will be a day of quite a bit of driving. From Tuebingen backtrack a short distance to the A-81, take it all the way south to where it intersects with the A-98 (near Singen), get off the A-81 and continue to Radolfzell, Allensbach, Konstanz. Take the car ferry over to Meersburg and continue on the B-31 along Lake Constance (Bodensee) to Lindau. From Lindau, take the B-308 (Deutsche Alpenstrasse) to Obertaufen, Immenstadt, Sonthofen, Hindelang, Oberjoch, and the Austrian B-199 to Weissenbach. From there the B-198 to Reutte and on to Fuesen. The whole trip is about 350km, some of it very scenic. Depending on when you get to Konstanz, if you have the time, spend about 2 hours visiting the Mainau Island.
Day 5: Visit Fuessen castles. Depending on when you get away, either take the B-17 to Steingaden (22km), and visit the Wieskirche (15km round trip from Steingaden), then continue on the B-17 to Landsberg, and take the A-96 west over to the A-7, and continue on the A-7 north to Rothenburg. Skip Ulm, save the time for Rothenburg.
If you get away from Fuessen too late, skip the Wies, and take the A-7 all the way to Rothenburg.
Day 6: Rothenburg to Wuerzburg. Skip Mainz, instead drive late in the afternoon from Wuerzburg on the A-3 to Exit 66, and from there to Wertheim and along the Main to Miltenberg. Stay there overnight, and on the next morning drive to FRA airport.
Generally, the A-3 is a very busy autobahn, especially across the Spessart mountains. That's why I am directing you off it via Miltenberg and advise you to skip Mainz.
Besides, with your plane leaving at 2PM, you would have to leave Mainz at least by 11AM That doesn't give you enough time to visit the Gutenberg museum.
Miltenberg is a delightful old town, with several hotels, and a fast road to the Frankfurt airport. We have stayed at the Jagdhotel Rose.
Even with my suggested changes, you are really going to be on the move all the time, but it is doable. I have driven all the suggested roads myself.
Day 2: Drive to Heidelberg (note spelling of this and some of your other sites) Visit castle. Skip boat ride, instead drive along the Neckar (Route B-37, also known as the Burgenstrasse/Castle Route) to Heilbronn and on to Tuebingen. For your kind of short visit, your itinerary for Stuttgart is really not the best use of yourtime.
You can drive from Heilbronn to Tuebingen either along the Neckar on the B-27, Autobahn A-81, by-passing Stuttgart and getting off the A-81 at exit 23, taking the B-464 to Tuebingen, or you can go from Heilbronn a short way east on the A-6 and take the A-81 all the way to exit 26.
Spend the "Stuttgart" day you have gained in the Tuebingen area, visiting at least some of the sites (Hechenstein, etc.)as you had planned originally for day 4.
Day 4:This will be a day of quite a bit of driving. From Tuebingen backtrack a short distance to the A-81, take it all the way south to where it intersects with the A-98 (near Singen), get off the A-81 and continue to Radolfzell, Allensbach, Konstanz. Take the car ferry over to Meersburg and continue on the B-31 along Lake Constance (Bodensee) to Lindau. From Lindau, take the B-308 (Deutsche Alpenstrasse) to Obertaufen, Immenstadt, Sonthofen, Hindelang, Oberjoch, and the Austrian B-199 to Weissenbach. From there the B-198 to Reutte and on to Fuesen. The whole trip is about 350km, some of it very scenic. Depending on when you get to Konstanz, if you have the time, spend about 2 hours visiting the Mainau Island.
Day 5: Visit Fuessen castles. Depending on when you get away, either take the B-17 to Steingaden (22km), and visit the Wieskirche (15km round trip from Steingaden), then continue on the B-17 to Landsberg, and take the A-96 west over to the A-7, and continue on the A-7 north to Rothenburg. Skip Ulm, save the time for Rothenburg.
If you get away from Fuessen too late, skip the Wies, and take the A-7 all the way to Rothenburg.
Day 6: Rothenburg to Wuerzburg. Skip Mainz, instead drive late in the afternoon from Wuerzburg on the A-3 to Exit 66, and from there to Wertheim and along the Main to Miltenberg. Stay there overnight, and on the next morning drive to FRA airport.
Generally, the A-3 is a very busy autobahn, especially across the Spessart mountains. That's why I am directing you off it via Miltenberg and advise you to skip Mainz.
Besides, with your plane leaving at 2PM, you would have to leave Mainz at least by 11AM That doesn't give you enough time to visit the Gutenberg museum.
Miltenberg is a delightful old town, with several hotels, and a fast road to the Frankfurt airport. We have stayed at the Jagdhotel Rose.
Even with my suggested changes, you are really going to be on the move all the time, but it is doable. I have driven all the suggested roads myself.
May 12th, 2006, 10:58 AM
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I lived in Stuttgart a long time ago, so I will only comment on days 2, 3, and 4. I remember the short Neckar cruise and driving along the Bergenstrassse. Both are nice, I liked the cruise better, but considering everything else in your itinerary involves driving, I should think the cruise would be a welcome break, even if it sucked, which it won't. But I agree with Treplow that your day 3-4 plan is very ambitious, seeing Stuttgart, AND overnighting in Tubingen, AND all the activities of day four, leaves you ZERO slack time. I would suggest dropping something, and cutting some of the Stuttgart things out is probably the way to go.
May 12th, 2006, 10:58 PM
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Thanks so much for this great information.
We had heard that the Mercedes Museum was not to be missed. We also heard that the fossil museum is fascinating. Sounds like everyone would pass on both.
The driving route is quite interesting. We had planned to go the other route, through Ulm, but this route sounds less crowded and more scenic.
As we are missing the Rhein, we thought we would take a cruise on the Neckar, out of Heidelberg. There appears to be mixed opinion on the short cruise (1-2 hours max).
I will look into Miltenberg. I had come to the conclusion that driving from Mainz to Frankfurt Airport would be difficult and had considered leaving the car in Mainz, taking the train to the airport.
Please let me know any other thoughts you all have. This is very helpful.
We had heard that the Mercedes Museum was not to be missed. We also heard that the fossil museum is fascinating. Sounds like everyone would pass on both.
The driving route is quite interesting. We had planned to go the other route, through Ulm, but this route sounds less crowded and more scenic.
As we are missing the Rhein, we thought we would take a cruise on the Neckar, out of Heidelberg. There appears to be mixed opinion on the short cruise (1-2 hours max).
I will look into Miltenberg. I had come to the conclusion that driving from Mainz to Frankfurt Airport would be difficult and had considered leaving the car in Mainz, taking the train to the airport.
Please let me know any other thoughts you all have. This is very helpful.
May 13th, 2006, 09:11 AM
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In your first post you mentioned for Day 5 "go to alps". The route I have given you between Lindau and Fuessen skirts the Alps and you will see some nice mountains, especially between Oberstaufen and the Oberjoch.
The Insel Mainau- known for its beautiful gardens - Meersburg (old town with both castle and little palace) and the old part of Lindau on the island are all worth a visit, but you probably won't have time to do them all. So you have to make a decision, which you want to visit.
You did not mention how old your kids are. There is one more sight that would appeal to teens, the Zeppelin Museum in Friedrichshafen (halfway between Meersburg and Lindau). It shows models and gives the whole history of the dirigibles and a mockup of part of the interior of the Hindenburg, which crashed and burned in Lakehurst NJ. One more item for you to consider. The museum has a nice restaurant for lunch, overlooking the Friedrichshafen harbor. Unfortunately, the day in Europe has also only 24 hours.
While you are driving along Lake Constance you may see one of the new zeppelins aloft. They are being built at and offer sightseeing trips from the Friedrichshafen airport. The trips are very expensive.
Frankfurt airport used to be the homeport for the zeppelins.
Re Fuessen: I personally think the interior of the castles, especially Neuschwanstein, are overrated. N. is not a castle in the classic, working sense. It was built by Kind Ludwig in the latter half of the 19th century to express his his dreams of being a mediaval knight. Some of the interior was never really finished. If it hadn't been for Disney (and clever marketing by the State of Bavaria), it would be a marginal tourist site. For me, the main attraction is the location and views of it. I only pass this along, if you find that visiting the castle interior puts you into a real time crunch.
I know I am expressing a minority view.
The Insel Mainau- known for its beautiful gardens - Meersburg (old town with both castle and little palace) and the old part of Lindau on the island are all worth a visit, but you probably won't have time to do them all. So you have to make a decision, which you want to visit.
You did not mention how old your kids are. There is one more sight that would appeal to teens, the Zeppelin Museum in Friedrichshafen (halfway between Meersburg and Lindau). It shows models and gives the whole history of the dirigibles and a mockup of part of the interior of the Hindenburg, which crashed and burned in Lakehurst NJ. One more item for you to consider. The museum has a nice restaurant for lunch, overlooking the Friedrichshafen harbor. Unfortunately, the day in Europe has also only 24 hours.
While you are driving along Lake Constance you may see one of the new zeppelins aloft. They are being built at and offer sightseeing trips from the Friedrichshafen airport. The trips are very expensive.
Frankfurt airport used to be the homeport for the zeppelins.
Re Fuessen: I personally think the interior of the castles, especially Neuschwanstein, are overrated. N. is not a castle in the classic, working sense. It was built by Kind Ludwig in the latter half of the 19th century to express his his dreams of being a mediaval knight. Some of the interior was never really finished. If it hadn't been for Disney (and clever marketing by the State of Bavaria), it would be a marginal tourist site. For me, the main attraction is the location and views of it. I only pass this along, if you find that visiting the castle interior puts you into a real time crunch.
I know I am expressing a minority view.
May 13th, 2006, 12:11 PM
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Hi, treplow--how's it going?
t and I constantly disagree about Neuschwanstein. I think it's significant historically and culturally, and for its place in the strange Ludwig saga. I'm not going to repeat all my reasons yet again, but Neuschwanstein is a highlight for me. Just wish they'd let visitors wander around at will.
t and I constantly disagree about Neuschwanstein. I think it's significant historically and culturally, and for its place in the strange Ludwig saga. I'm not going to repeat all my reasons yet again, but Neuschwanstein is a highlight for me. Just wish they'd let visitors wander around at will.
May 13th, 2006, 12:32 PM
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Are you going to Speyer for the Cathedral? It's a nice one, but the town isn't unusually inspeyering otherwise.
Wow, you are indeed doing too much. I think you've gotten good advice so far. Kids generally don't like to be cooped up in a car, which is just like a domestic vacation for them. You need to minimize the driving if possible.
I very much agree with Treplow about the Ludwig castle tours. A long way to go for that.
Here's what I'd suggest.
Since you mentioned the Rhine, why not go there first? In St. Goar, the kids can climb around the castle ruins of Rheinfels, you can do your cruise, and if you want a good tour, cross the river and see Marksburg in Braubach - the only intact castle on the Rhine and something like 900 years old - the real medieval McCastle. 2 nights is maybe enough.
I'd skip Heidelberg and and it's castle and move on to Tübingen on the upper Neckar. Stop in Speyer on the way if you like. Set up in Túbingen for a couple of nights to see some of the things in the area you've selected, and daytrip from there into Stuttgart if you decide to go there. Tübingen is wonderful.
Then head toward Rothenburg - but stop in picturesque Schwäbisch Gmünd on the way. 1 night in R'burg should be enough. Your kids will like the place - Disneylike in many ways.
You can head up to Würzburg easily enough from Rothenburg on the following day and stop in Miltenberg or overnight there - it's not terribly far from the FRA airport - and drive there the next morning, or overnight nearer the airport.
Even this reduced itinerary is going to mean a lot of car time but I think it'll be more doable and more kid-friendly.
Wow, you are indeed doing too much. I think you've gotten good advice so far. Kids generally don't like to be cooped up in a car, which is just like a domestic vacation for them. You need to minimize the driving if possible.
I very much agree with Treplow about the Ludwig castle tours. A long way to go for that.
Here's what I'd suggest.
Since you mentioned the Rhine, why not go there first? In St. Goar, the kids can climb around the castle ruins of Rheinfels, you can do your cruise, and if you want a good tour, cross the river and see Marksburg in Braubach - the only intact castle on the Rhine and something like 900 years old - the real medieval McCastle. 2 nights is maybe enough.
I'd skip Heidelberg and and it's castle and move on to Tübingen on the upper Neckar. Stop in Speyer on the way if you like. Set up in Túbingen for a couple of nights to see some of the things in the area you've selected, and daytrip from there into Stuttgart if you decide to go there. Tübingen is wonderful.
Then head toward Rothenburg - but stop in picturesque Schwäbisch Gmünd on the way. 1 night in R'burg should be enough. Your kids will like the place - Disneylike in many ways.
You can head up to Würzburg easily enough from Rothenburg on the following day and stop in Miltenberg or overnight there - it's not terribly far from the FRA airport - and drive there the next morning, or overnight nearer the airport.
Even this reduced itinerary is going to mean a lot of car time but I think it'll be more doable and more kid-friendly.
May 13th, 2006, 02:15 PM
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RufusTFirefly: I know you and I disagree on Fuessen, and I respect your opinion as you do mine. I think we just have to kind of lay out the plus and minusses for people who want to go there and are on a tight time schedule.
You may have read before in one of my posts that I grew up during my teens not far from Fuessen (Immenstadt im Allgaeu), so I know I have a bit different perspective on things when it comes to tourist sites. It's just that I want people to know that if they want to visit a "castle" castle, Neuschwanstein isn't it. If they are interested in Ludwig and his dreams, want to see beautiful scenery (the old boy really knew how to pick 'em), then Neuschwanstein, Linderhof, Herrenchiemsee should definitely be on their itinerary. But then they should also take the time to really "visit" these places and the country between them.
You may have read before in one of my posts that I grew up during my teens not far from Fuessen (Immenstadt im Allgaeu), so I know I have a bit different perspective on things when it comes to tourist sites. It's just that I want people to know that if they want to visit a "castle" castle, Neuschwanstein isn't it. If they are interested in Ludwig and his dreams, want to see beautiful scenery (the old boy really knew how to pick 'em), then Neuschwanstein, Linderhof, Herrenchiemsee should definitely be on their itinerary. But then they should also take the time to really "visit" these places and the country between them.
May 13th, 2006, 02:23 PM
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With Kids: I think you should think about Russ's idea about heading from the FRA airport to the Rhein.
On the next day, you could still do the suggested trip to Tuebingen, with some drive along the Burgenstrasse/Neackar. My thought,too, was to spend 2 nights in Tuebingen and see as many of the sights you had originally planned for or that areas. You probably won't have time to do them all, so "pioritize" as to what your kids want to see. The Hohenzollern Castle is certainly impressive.
On the next day, you could still do the suggested trip to Tuebingen, with some drive along the Burgenstrasse/Neackar. My thought,too, was to spend 2 nights in Tuebingen and see as many of the sights you had originally planned for or that areas. You probably won't have time to do them all, so "pioritize" as to what your kids want to see. The Hohenzollern Castle is certainly impressive.
May 13th, 2006, 08:27 PM
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I'm not posting this to disagree with anyone but the historical significanse of Neueschwanstein is relative.
Since it is newer than either the White House and Capitol in Washington D.C., from the American perspective, it isn't the history many will visit Europe to see. It IS magnificent and the surrounding scenery is like few others. My wife and daughter were profoundly disappointed with the interior tour, but they can say "we've been there".
For truly historical castles, the Mosel and Rhein offer much more, as do many other sites in Germany. Withkids has a very full trip planned here, hope it isn't too hectic.
Mark
Since it is newer than either the White House and Capitol in Washington D.C., from the American perspective, it isn't the history many will visit Europe to see. It IS magnificent and the surrounding scenery is like few others. My wife and daughter were profoundly disappointed with the interior tour, but they can say "we've been there".
For truly historical castles, the Mosel and Rhein offer much more, as do many other sites in Germany. Withkids has a very full trip planned here, hope it isn't too hectic.
Mark
May 14th, 2006, 10:25 AM
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With Kids: By now you have received a lot of valuable advise. With some of this in mind, may I suggest this itinerary:
Day 1: FRA - St. Goar. Overnite there. You may have enough time to take a short Rhein downriver cruise, returning to St.G by train from wherever you decide to get off the boat.
Day 2: Get from S.G to the Autobahn A-61 south and stay on it to the A-6. Take the A-6 East to exit 37; take the B-27 to the Autobahn 81 at entrance/exit 15. Take the A-81 south to to Exit 28. Take the B-28 to Tuebingen. Spend 2 nights there and visit some of the paces you wanted to see. (350km) This routing would take yoiu a bit along the upper Neckar river.
On Day 4, follow the route I gave you before to Konstanz- Lindau. Stay overnight in Lindau. This will give more time to visit one or two of the suggested sites (Insel Mainau, Meersburg, Friedrichhafen) and some of the old town of Lindau.
Day 5: In the morning, take the boat to Bregenz, walk to the cable car station of the Pfaender and take the cable car to the top. You will have a great view of the some of the Austrian and Swiss alps. Return to Lindau by boat or train.
In the afternoon, take the A-96 north to exit 4, and from there the B-12 to the A-7 (about 70km from Lindau) and head north to Rothenburg (204km on the A-7, or a total of about 280km, about 4 hrs drive.)
Then continue your itinerary the way you had planned, with the possible change of staying the last night in Miltenberg. Incidentally, the Jagdhotel Rose is near the end of the town, as you are heading toward the B-409 (a Schnellstrasse, similar to an autobahn) and then the A-3 to the FRA airport.
While you would be giving up Fuessen,I think this itnerary would be more relaxing and you would still see many interesting places and nice scenery.
Day 1: FRA - St. Goar. Overnite there. You may have enough time to take a short Rhein downriver cruise, returning to St.G by train from wherever you decide to get off the boat.
Day 2: Get from S.G to the Autobahn A-61 south and stay on it to the A-6. Take the A-6 East to exit 37; take the B-27 to the Autobahn 81 at entrance/exit 15. Take the A-81 south to to Exit 28. Take the B-28 to Tuebingen. Spend 2 nights there and visit some of the paces you wanted to see. (350km) This routing would take yoiu a bit along the upper Neckar river.
On Day 4, follow the route I gave you before to Konstanz- Lindau. Stay overnight in Lindau. This will give more time to visit one or two of the suggested sites (Insel Mainau, Meersburg, Friedrichhafen) and some of the old town of Lindau.
Day 5: In the morning, take the boat to Bregenz, walk to the cable car station of the Pfaender and take the cable car to the top. You will have a great view of the some of the Austrian and Swiss alps. Return to Lindau by boat or train.
In the afternoon, take the A-96 north to exit 4, and from there the B-12 to the A-7 (about 70km from Lindau) and head north to Rothenburg (204km on the A-7, or a total of about 280km, about 4 hrs drive.)
Then continue your itinerary the way you had planned, with the possible change of staying the last night in Miltenberg. Incidentally, the Jagdhotel Rose is near the end of the town, as you are heading toward the B-409 (a Schnellstrasse, similar to an autobahn) and then the A-3 to the FRA airport.
While you would be giving up Fuessen,I think this itnerary would be more relaxing and you would still see many interesting places and nice scenery.
May 14th, 2006, 03:43 PM
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Actually, many of the castles on the Rhein and Mosel, though old, have pretty much no history--like Burg Eltz. Certainly an outstanding castle to look at and tour, and definitely worth a visit--but pretty much nothing ever happened there.
Whereas the entire Ludwig saga, of which his castle building spree is a big part, is a fascinating chapter in Bavarian/German history even though it didn't happen 800 or 900 years ago--especially when viewed in the broader context of what was taking place with the monarchies of Europe and vast social change in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Whereas the entire Ludwig saga, of which his castle building spree is a big part, is a fascinating chapter in Bavarian/German history even though it didn't happen 800 or 900 years ago--especially when viewed in the broader context of what was taking place with the monarchies of Europe and vast social change in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
May 19th, 2006, 12:20 PM
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I'm an American living in Stuttgart. The brand new Mercedes museum opened today and as far as I have heard it is a MUST-SEE (much better than the old one which was not bad either), especially if you have kids who are the right age to enjoy it. But you can definitely stay in Tuebingen and visit the museum during the day. I will be the first to admit that on a quick trip through Germany, Stuttgart proper would not be high on my list.
Forget Neuschwanstein. There are plenty of other amazing castles on your route. Spend your time slowing down and enjoying the other stops. You mentioned Hohenzollern - even though it is rebuilt, it is an amazing site with an interesting history. Walking through the recently-excavated casements underneath the castle is pretty cool. Lichtenstein is also an "imitation" castle but is incredibly scenic. Kids would love both.
Right now your day 4 is way too long.
Consider staying in Burg Colmberg outside Rothenburg instead of in the town. It is a real castle. Your kids will love it!
Wurzburg's fortress is great.
If you have kids who love to run around exploring castles, the above suggestions should be perfect for you.
Forget Neuschwanstein. There are plenty of other amazing castles on your route. Spend your time slowing down and enjoying the other stops. You mentioned Hohenzollern - even though it is rebuilt, it is an amazing site with an interesting history. Walking through the recently-excavated casements underneath the castle is pretty cool. Lichtenstein is also an "imitation" castle but is incredibly scenic. Kids would love both.
Right now your day 4 is way too long.
Consider staying in Burg Colmberg outside Rothenburg instead of in the town. It is a real castle. Your kids will love it!
Wurzburg's fortress is great.
If you have kids who love to run around exploring castles, the above suggestions should be perfect for you.
May 19th, 2006, 01:52 PM
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I'll second the suggestion of Burg Colmberg castle hotel. Nice views and a good restaurant, too.
http://www.burg-colmberg.de/
http://www.burg-colmberg.de/
