november_moon

When we were in Bali a couple years ago, the only places that we paid with cards were for hotels and at each check out, the hotel staff presented a bill in US$ for reference, but were very clear that they would be charging our card in Ruppiah (local currency). The charge slip was indeed in Ruppiah, which was pointed out again. I would never expect to be charged in anything but local currency, so I was surprised that this was explicitly explained.

Reading this DCC stuff though, it makes sense. I've never run into DCC, but we haven't travelled to the European countries mentioned on this thread. I will definitely be on the lookout though. Good thread.

Michel_Paris

I am surprised that CC companies would allow vendors to even try to do this. If the CC agreement states that local currency must be offered, why would VISA, for example, not reject any non-local CC charges where the curremcy does not match the country of origin? Why even allow vendors to rip off their customers?

Being cynicasl, I suppose it inflates VISA's incomce by those few percentage points, but is it worth the bad publicity?

kybourbon

>>>If the CC agreement states that local currency must be offered<<<

I don't think it states that the local currency must be offered. If they want to offer the conversion, they are supposedly required (by Visa/MC) to ask first (and you must agree), but they don't ask.

xyz123

I think mc/visa are afraid of anti turst regulations or eu regulation or anything to outright prohibit the scam so their merchant agreements (which of course do not have the force of law) state if merchants wish to charge in anything other than local currency, it must be done with the consent of scamee.

Interestingly enough, to the best of my knowledge, Amex does not allow dcc.

Alec

Michel_Paris

I have read that when DCC was first brought in, Visa and Master had no clear rules on its implementation. But their lawyers agreed that in the interest of anti-trust law, they are powerless to stop currency conversion to be performed by a third party, but it must require consent by the customer. Visa and Mastercard are powerless to act if DCC was performed according to their rules - i.e. a choice of currency was offered and card's home currency was accepted by the customer. By signing or tapping in your PIN, you are deemed to have accepted it. What would happen if you crossed out the consent bit and wrote local currency not offered, as suggested by xyz123, depends on your card issuer. Some are no doubt willing to do a chargeback on the establishment as an unauthorised transaction, while others wash their hands on it and say nothing can be done.
You cannot be DCCed on Amex as its T&C don't allow DCC to be performed, but its exchange rates are usually worse than those set by Visa and Master.

xyz123

Alec...if the establishment cannot produce a signed sales slip, it has to be charged back.

AlessandraZoe

I called both my Visa and MasterCard security people a couple of years ago (maybe three--time flies when you are old) before I left on another trip. I explained that I wanted to make clear what I was supposed to do in a DCC situation.

Guess what? No clue. And I mean it--these guys had NO clue. It wasn't a runaround; they were just clueless. They could not understand how anyone in a European country could charge me in dollars. They both kept using analogies back to me, such as, "If you were to buy an ice cream cone from a vendor in the US, would he ever say, "Pay me in Euro since that's your currency?" And I kept answering back, "I DO NOT WANT TO PAY IN DOLLARS!!!!"

I think Alec's explanation makes a lot of sense. And I also think that what xyz is saying is equally valid.

My question: Anyone experiencing DCC in New Zealand???? (I know this is the Europe board, but you guys get around, as you well know!!!). I just want to roll up my shirt sleeves right now.

Michel_Paris

To note...there are circumstances in a foreign countries where you will pay in US dollars. I was in Turkey, visiting a carpet salesmen (friend of a friend) and all the pricing was in $US. Which in a way makes sense, since US$ has better stored value than the Turkish lira.

The other was at the Sheraton Hotel in Antalya. We were quoted in dollars and told to pay in dollars. Was it DCC? Don't know. I used my AMEX to pay.

Christina

There are plenty of places where you can buy in USD and it is even a standard local currency, in other places, they want USD as a hard currency as their own is so bad or other reasons. YOu can often buy things in USD in Mexico, for example, in resort areas or along the coasts, and the rates are very good. However, if you charge to a CC there, I think it is in pesos. So pricing in USD and accepting USD cash is different than saying they can charge your CC in USD.

But the only places I've been like that had double pricing, local or USD, but I've never had a place like that charge my card in USD.

Of course, the USD is legally usable in Panama and I think is official although there is the Panamanian Balboa.

xyz123

Christina...while I am not completely sure of this, the Mexican government has recently passed a law restricting the amount of US currency that can be deposited in Mexican banks so yuo might find fewer and fewer Mexican merchants accepting US currency.

raincitygirl

This happened to me at a Louis Vuitton store on Maui about four years ago, before I had read about it here.
The salesclerk asked me if I wanted the bill to be conveniently converted to Canadian dollars,and I said sure, as I really didn't know any better.

After discovering Fodor's three years ago and reading about DCC I was able to say "absolutely not" the next time I was purchasing in that store. The sales clerk didn't push it.

AlessandraZoe

RainCityGirl--Good for you!! Fodors Fights Back!

Paul1950

The US dollar is recognized as official currency (or is the only offical currency for some) in Panama, Ecuador, El Salvador, British Virgin Islands, East Timor, the Federated States of Micronesia, Zimbabwe (uses several currencies), Turks and Caicos Islands. Maybe some other places, too. Other countries use the euro, New Zealand dollar, etc.

xyz123

I think Liberia too.

kwren

Well, I'm going to bring this up again because this scam is still alive and well in Ireland. We changed flights at Dublin on our way home from Italy, had a little time to kill and did some shopping. I specifically told them to charge me in Euros and lo and behold, I looked at the slip my husband had just signed and it said dollars! I asked why they would do that when I had just told them that I wanted to be charged in Euros and they said "oh, most people want to be charged in dollars". I again told her that I wanted Euros, was told that she couldn't do anything about it, so I took the slip, crossed off our signature, wrote that I was not offered local currency in big letters across the slip and gave it back. We didn't have time to argue as we had to catch our flight. As we left they offered to credit us and recharge us in Euros, but I think that would have just caused us to have the fee added anyway. She didn't offer to void it, I figured that I'd be fighting this once I got home anyway, and we didn't have much time.

Any tips on what I should do once the charge appears on my Visa bill and what to say when I call in? I presume that, if the fee was added, the dollar amount listed on the statement will be higher than the dollar amount listed on the receipt, is that correct? Since the signature is crossed off, does anyone think that this won't appear on my statement? (I bet it will since some signatures look pretty bad anyway.) I'm not sure what to expect here, but it makes me happy that that signature was crossed off and they just accepted it back like that. I thought they would void it but no. I didn't really think about that until we had left - maybe they should have asked for the merchandise back. I'm not really sure where we stand and how we will be charged.

Any advice appreciated! Thanks.

chartley

I am unsure what good it will do you writing something on the store's copy of the credit card receipt. That receipt does not get passed to the bank: it is just used by the store and checked against the record of the sale on the cash register.

I doubt if any further charge will be added. The damage was done when the store calculated the amount in dollars, and that is the stage at which you should have checked what exchange rate was being used. That ixs the point at which you decline the transaction. With chip and pin, you simply don't enter your pin, and the transaction is void.

Generations of tourists have asked "How nuch is that in dollars?" and appreciated the acceptance of U.S. currency by overseas businesses. Now it is cause for complaint.

Let us know when you get your credit card statement. However, if your husband authorised that payment, I would be surprised if the credit card company would authorise a chargeback to the store in Ireland.

kwren

Thanks Chartley. My husband didn't realize all this so he signed, so that's when I checked. I was surprised since the salesgirl and I had just had that conversation that I wanted to pay in Euros. According to the above, by signing you accept. By crossing the signature off, do you refuse to accept? Someone else had suggested writing 'euros not offered' on the receipt. I didn't know if that would do any good, but did it just in case. That store copy is a mess. If they were smart, they would just throw it away!

kwren

And, my credit card doesn't have a pin or chip. I think that is the norm for American credit cards (or used to be).

hetismij2

DC also happens in the US. It isn't uniquely Irish or European.

Do let us know how you get on with this.

kybourbon

http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_v....html#anchor_4

http://www.visaeurope.com/en/busines...onversion.aspx