kwren

<<If you do not want to use DCC when making a purchase, then you have the right to refuse the offer and have your transaction billed in the merchant’s local currency, which will then use Visa’s conversion rate.>>

I said charge in Euros.
They did not offer to charge in dollars.
They just went ahead and did it.

<<If you did not agree to DCC, but see it on your bill, then you should ask your issuing bank to contest the charge.>>

If it shows up, I'll give it a try.

AlessandraZoe

Kwen--From what I know, if you contest, your credit card company then MUST request the original receipt from the vendor.

If you have written on it, then it's a no-go.

However, now our US credit cards are softening on their policies--so beware.

WE love Ireland, but hotels and restaurants are horrible about DCC there. It became so frustrating that we only paid in cash by the end.

kwren

I bought something in another shop just after that and I practically threatened her about charging me in dollars. Told her the whole story and she looked shocked and asked me which shop did that. She sure was relieved when it was one not related to that one.

GreenDragon

When I went to Ireland May 2011, I think I only came across DCC once - and that was in a shop in Northern Ireland (UK). And I pay most things with credit card, if accepted. I did have a couple people ask, and when I said to charge in £ or Euro, they did... only that one shop (in a mall) in Northern Ireland did they still try to charge in USD. I refused to sign until they changed it, they voided it and did it correctly.

joannyc

Just returned from my first meal in Toledo, Spain at Taberna El Botero.

While the meal and service were very good, they tried the DCC scam on me also.

Gave waiter my cc, he ran it through the machine in front of me and gave me the paperwork to review/sign.

I called him back and explained that I wanted to pay in Euros, not USD. He showed me that both USD and Euros were stated on the charge slip. I pointed out the wording 'Currency Charged: xx.xx USD'. He claimed ignorance of the whole thing and suddenly didn't understand English. Asked him to call the manager to my table....didn't understand 'manager' either...did understand 'boss'.

Boss comes and I explain to him...even pointing out that the receipt states an extra 2 pct will be charged, that I have agreed to the currency charged when asked (which I was never asked), and that the transaction is not cancellable. He tried 3 times to reverse the charge and re-charge it in Euros unsuccessfully. Told him to reverse it and that I would pay in cash.

Had been willing to return for another meal this week but not now!

xyz123

Mistake to pay in cash. If they refuse to do it poroperly (and all it takes is to push the red button on the terminal rather than the green or vice versa, what you should do in this case is circle the amount in euro, cross out the USD amount and write local currency not offered and initial. Then when the bill arrives, dispute the charge and your bank will have to option but to charge the disputed charge back to the international visa system and then to the restaurant and hopefully they will be fined for the chargeback.

Do not fall for this garbage. DCC is a cancer metastasizing throughout the travelling world (even here in the USA pulled on our visitors) and must be stopped. All you did, unfortunately and please forgive me for being harsh, is helped spread this scam.

I started this thread about 2 years ago and it's unfortunate this scam still exists and te lies keep coming. Forewarned is forewarned. Just say NO to this scam.

Dejais

Just wanted to say thanks for this info. I am traveling to Ireland in two weeks and will heed the warning. I had not noticed this problem on my past trips to France and Italy. I will look out for it from now on though....

Alec

Just found the following report, though from 2007, about the inside story of DCC:
http://www.psel.co.uk/pdf/articles/a...vs_reality.pdf

Michael

<i>I had not noticed this problem on my past trips to France and Italy</i>

I've come across it on rental contracts that are signed in France; the charges added after the car is returned (road tax, airport or RR station pick-up, etc.) are charged in dollars.

xyz123

Alec...the publication you cited as you realize is 5 years out of date and the eu as well as the bisa/mc regs regarding this scam are now most assuredly in place.

I would agree that different countries have adapted to this at different speeds. Ireland was clearly where the scam originated. It has since metastasized to Spain, Italy, Scotland and then the rest of the UK. I have had it tried to be pulled on me in Switzerland but hardly ever in France (there's something about the French attitude towards these things just like they want people to try to speak French, they want people to be trained in their own currency it almost seems), rarely in Germany or Scandanavia. Holland and Belgium have been mixed bags.

My biggest problem with it are the lies that come out of the mouths of the poorly trained, as Alec's reference publication discusses, sales assistants. It is troubling to me or perhaps not so troubling the place where I have the most trouble communicating with service staff is London with the large numbers of non English people working in service industro jobs (waiters, bar tenders, hotel clerks) whose naitive language is not English and although I understand American accents might sound strange to a Roumanian working in London, my use of the language should be perfecdty understandable. Yet I still get the lies when they try to pull this garbage (oh the amount shown in USD is for your convenience, the rate is a good one, I have no control over the procdess (they have perfect control over the process, incidentally no matter what theysay. Early in the process as soon as the card is swiped or read in the chip reader the terminal says the amount say in USD if it's my card and asks the clerk to push one button if the person desires to be ripped off and a different button if the person wishes to pay in local currency as required both by the eu and the mc/visa regs. I've made many clerks walk through the procedure, I ask to see the manager who usually knows what to do but when that fails the last thing I do is pay cash. I note what I noted above and have had several of these fraudulent transactions charged back to the merchant hopefully with a hefty fine for the chargeback and the violation of mc/visa rules. One merchant did communicate with me asking what I was trying to pull that it is a normal way of doing business to assist customers in knowing their exact costs and that the rate used was better than the rate being used by the cash exchange next door (indeed it is but nowherenear the rate I get from my bank whch does not charge foreign transaction fees).

The worst case I encountered was with some "manager" at a Burger King in Ireland who told me it was the law in Ireland even though it might not be the law in the United States. No matter, I did as above and when the bill arrived I disputed the charge (the difference was like 75¢ US on a €9 vjsthr. slmost 8%. My bank didn't charge it back to the merchant as it should have. Rather it just credited my account for 75¢...too bad I would have really wanted that ignorant fool to see the chargeback and the fine that should have been imposed.

DCC is a spreading like a cancer, as I noted, among the travelling world. It is pulled by American merchants on British, Canadian or English visitors. It has become more and more common in London and Scotland where at least there is no language problem in explaining what I demand be done when they pull this scam on me.

Just to repeat so everybody here who might be new to this game understand. MC and visa regulations do allow dynamic currency conversion as long as the scamee is informed of the amount and rate involved. This is supposed to be done before the transaction is completed on the pos terminal. Usually it is not. The potential scamee is present with a slip that shows the amount in both the local currencdy and your currency (in my case USD) and is pressured to sign a statement saying I was offered the opportunity to pay in local currench and accept the conversion rate used as final. I will not sign. I ask the clerk to void the transaction (not credit it although since I don't pay foreign transaction feees, it really doesn't matter. If you're dumb enough to use a credit card with a foreign transaction fee, the fee is added to a purchase and subtracted from a credit...so you would lose 6% that way). If the clerk refuses or gives you one of the lies, politely ask to see the manager. If the manager will not properly re-do the transacton the correct way and the only way you should do it namely in local currency, circle the amount in local currency, write local currency not offered and initial. DO NOT PAY CASH. It just encourages more of the same on other unsuspecting customers.

When the bill arrives, dispute the charge. The merchant will be unble to provide a signed sales slip with that sttement above and by visa/mc ruls the transactin will be charged back to him or her hopefully with a substantial fine for breaking mc/visa regulations.

If more people did that and were aware as I said two years ago, we could put an end to this spreading cancer. Oh yes, one other thing. Some hotel chains, supposedly reputable have a new trick up their sleeves. When they pressure you at check in to sign the check in slip, they slip in, as do some car rental companies, a statement that you agree to pay in your currency and even if you notice at check out that they're trying to pull the dcc scam on you, they clam it's too late. You've already agreed to be scammed (notorious for some car rental agencies where the acceptance of dcc is made part of the contract and when you check out, they write the bill up in local currency but still submit it as a dcc transaction. Be aware of what you sign.

You've been warned.

Alec

Thanks xyz123, as helpful as ever.

This is what you should do if you have a chip and pin card that is compatible internationally (EMV). When you insert your card into the reader, the till operator has to press a key (usually) to accept card payment, and then, where they are wired up for DCC, has to press another key to choose currency. When they prompt you to enter your pin, read carefully what it says on the terminal screen. If there is any mention of your card's billing currency, don't enter your pin but tell the operator you want to pay in local currency. Transaction cannot proceed until they press a button to override DCC and local currency amount (only) is displayed. Then you can enter your pin and complete the transaction. They should have asked you first which currency you wish to pay in, but if the choice isn't offered, read the display carefully so you know what you are letting yourself in for. Entering the pin is deemed to have agreed to the transaction, with or without DCC.

Alec

Just to add there was one incidence where opting for DCC would have given me better exchange rate. I was using my sterling Visa (with no overseas fees) in Japan at a time of global turmoil in currency market. The merchant was wired for DCC, and I was given a choice of currencies and converted amount, which was around 3% worse than interbank. I chose to pay in yen, as I always do, only to find that overnight the sterling dipped by some 5% against the yen and when a few days later the transaction appeared on my online card statement, I would have been around 2% better off had I opted for DCC. An extreme and rare case, but nonetheless worth mentioning.

Graziella5b

This is a terrible scam, we must stand firm.When I check in at a hotel I ask if they bill in Euros and from there on I am prepared. first time I encounter a problem was in Burgos Spain in a lovely boutique hotel where I was caught by surprise at check out , it was a large bill because we had stayed four nights, thanks God I had time to go to an ATM and bring additional cash to meet the bill. I have also found the problem in the store El Corte Ingles
in Seville. I found it terribly disgusting . Another thing if traveling to Argentina for instance , situation has changed over the last months when using the US or Canadian Credit Cards, you are billed in pesos of course
Credit cards will use, the official exchange which today is aprox 30% appart from the unofficial rate.
There is very little you can do but this is the reality on Europe I do not think you have this problem but it is situation that might exist in other countries around the world.

DebitNM

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ThomFont

this thread is nearly done. Has been helpfull for the one who have been reading it once - and now the late ones remain. No, it is not like this. I have been using ATM machines since 20 years, in manhattan or lately in the jungles of south-east asia. Never have I been hit by a scam like this recently in prague, Czeck republic and member of the EU, where a conversion fee of about 10% was added to "the service of shown currency conversion on the display" of ATM machine. (All for my convenience as they say). Well, I even didnt take notice of this shown mentionings on display, I just pressed "enter" to continue receiving cash money as usual.

Some will say - "why didnt you read that - now it is your fault to have agreed". First: I didnt expect such a scam. I relied to the somewhat commission fees allways have been deducted afterward.

Second and more importantly, the whole definition of DCC, the dynamic currency conversion on which institutes (and organisations) referring to -is without substance. Without any substance

Let me make clear: There is no advantage that could be explained. To see the "exchange rate" at the display is an advantage? How it was handled before? Did You mistrust the way fees have been deducted later finally on your bank account? (allways at rates on the day). No difference. To make it sure: a bank shall have their % but it is allways limited to some small value. ATM cash money is not part of the bourses play.

complaints to all kind of banks are on the way. To consumerism (consumers protection, means reulatory authorities). To EU authorities as far I can make out.

Interesting to say I had allready calls to financial and card suppliers, amazing how little they know or do suspect about the DCC. It has become a traditional practice allready.

I just can argue against that habit by using the definition of itself. And it is rubbish (unless DCC is favouring finacial institutes or the POS (the point of sale, the vendor himself)

But - in the contradiction that DCC is defining itself as a service to customers (We are this ones) it appears without legitimation and offers its appearance as a scam. Which can mean a 10 % (!) off to real time courses by withdrawing money.

There is an other point which adresses the abuse of daily needs representing the use of ATMs (or Bankomat´s as it is called in german terms)

ThF

Alec

It's just another income stream for card handlers and merchants to get a cut from foreign exchange, masquerading as service to cardholders. At a time of high volatility in foreign exchange market, like the one the rouble is in at the moment (dropping like 10% in a day), being able to fix your rate of you rouble-denominated card at the time of use may be beneficial, but normally DCC doesn't benefit the public at all, and you only need a calculator and access to latest interbank rate to work out what the converted amount is likely to be (plus whatever fees or charges your card adds on - some charge nothing). We have been warning about this for years on Fodor's.

Alec

Ryanair use DCC when paying for your flight with a card not denominated in the currency the fare is payable in, i.e. all their flights when paying with US$ cards.
When you enter your card details, a pop-up appears showing what this transaction will be charged in, in USD for example. The rate offered is at least 5-6% worse than interbank. What you MUST do to avoid DCC is to click on 'further details' on the pop-up, which opens another pop-up and unclick the statement that you want to be charged in USD. Close the window. Disconcertingly they won't say you will now be charged in local currency but don't worry, just click Buy. When confirmation page appears, it confirms you have been charged in local currency and shows the original amount.

kybourbon

>>>Never have I been hit by a scam like this recently in prague, Czeck republic and member of the EU, where a conversion fee of about 10% was added to "the service of shown currency conversion on the display" of ATM machine. (All for my convenience as they say).<<<

I wonder if this was an actual bank ATM or one of the types (usually located in convenience stores in the US and they charge fees, that banks don't).

Dukey1

You need not be in the jungles of Asia or the backstreets of Prague to find a currency conversion fee. Whether or not it is a "scam" may depend on your definition of such.

As just one example, the Bank of America routinely charges a foreign currency conversion fee when you use an ATM overseas and even if you use one the B of A has an "agreement" with that simply removes the $5.00 charge; you still pay that currency conversion fee.

If you think that is a "scam" then you need to find some other way to get money; either use a banking service that charges nothing, or less for this "convenience."

ThomFont

@Alec 10:23 Yes, Alec, it´s an income streem. To the point: Czech crown CZK to Euro € does a daily up and down, but in a tenth of a percent the last 30 days I have checked. Even the last 365 days there was no break out except nov 2013, when the Chech federal Bank set the course down- for export reason, there it stays since then stable..on about 27,5 CZK/ 1 €.

I never been reading Fodor before today maybe thats my fault

@kybourbon : Gladly I got and have the receipt of that bank (of one of them) It is a member of societe general ..

@Dukey 1: Yes, it is a matter of definition. thats why I am definig very carefully..
But look at the topic, if the bank explains the advantage in "showing the fixed rate" - what do I expect happens if I do not see that rate? Will it be worse then? Unlike it just happened? Will they count me potatoes or sell my house otherwise?
# And if the show of showing the exchange rate, which evrybody knows ~ before anyway, why dont they show the real rate? Thats the question nobody can answer. Is it an achievment to show the wrong exchange rate upon the 5 or 10% are taken?

Ok, some people must read the value of the withdrawn money, imagine an american visiting africa, 15 countries / 7 days. That was (maybe) one reason to invent that service.

So to say: rate is shown, but its the wrong rate
@kybourbon, yes, now I know how to avoid next time: just decline their attempt to do their service to You, which costs a 10% of your money.

No, kybourbon, I dont think to accept easily each scam. In this case I probably do not accept. Do you accept cheating on You? I dont think so. Tell me one advantage of the "service" they did to me

reg.