Christopher

It is always good to learn something new.

dan woodlief

Thanks Wes. That was an entertaining and thought ("aw") provoking post.

donna

I am loving the splitting feathers thing. wonder how that would translate into french? or spanish? <BR> <BR>Isn't this really all about communicating, not just translating? <BR> <BR>I had a foreign exchange sister from Chile stay in my home in my junior year (30 years ago) and we stayed up all night the first night she was here and learned all the dirty words in each other's language so we could communicate in secret at school. Of course we are much more cool now, we just email each other . . . with excerpts from each language to continue to try to get the meaning . . .

Sheila

Actually Donna, that's "spitting" no "splitting" <BR> <BR>I went out and bout "Fowlers" today and it's not in! I did search the web and discove that one of the English football teams has a fanzine called "Spitting Feathers" <BR> <BR>Tomorrow I will have to visit a bookshop with a good reference section to solve the entymology question for myself. <BR> <BR>Being a bit of smartass, I learned Latin, German, French and Gaelic at school, taught myself some Italian when I was 18; a smidgen of Dutch when i was 20; I'm trying to pick up Spanish now; and I have had a shot at Greek. <BR> <BR>It's about understanding more about where you are visiting because your appreciaion of the culture is often richer when you grasp nuances which are missing in translation; it's about basic politeness; and almost as an afterthought, it's about direct communication. <BR> <BR>Having spent a week in Catalonia (that's Catalunya in Catalan) you can get a long way simply by saying "Bon Dia" and the "Rough Guide to the Pyrenees" has all the Catalan you will need if you speak Spanish.

Jim

Although true, its difficult to say you only need English because the foreigners always take this the wrong way: i.e. that it suggests a lack of respect of other cultures. But frankly with English having become the World language, due to the success (economic as well as military) of the US the issue is simple; that the foreigners have a much better incentive to learn English than for you to spend a hell of a time learning a language that is not spoken even in side the boundaries of that country (i.e. Spain). <BR>. <BR>And take a basic example-restaurants. Even if the name of various dishes on the menu are in the ethnic language, there is always an English description! <BR>

martha python

"And take a basic example-restaurants. Even if the name of various dishes on the menu are in the ethnic language, there is always an English description!" <BR>Anyone else wonder where Jim's been eating? Hey, how about looking at the color pictures that are always on the menu?

elvira

The pictures certainly help, especially when Jim has to make the ultimate choice: Big Mac or Quarter Pounder....

Joanna

Learn your Spanish Debbie. I wish I had the gift for learning languages. Wanted to learn Latin at school, but as I was the only one the class was cancelled. At uni I tried to learn Hebrew but was hopeless. I try to learn useful words/phrases before trips to get by with. I have found that actually being in the country I pick up the language much better than in classes or from a book. Knowledge is never useless. How often when away does one see posters, signs, etc. that you would love to be able to read! Esp. useful things like headlines about train strikes in Italy!!

Adam

Actually Sheila - French for a subway station is "station" and not "gare" which is a mainline station. At least, that is the case in Belgium. Perhaps Jim was looking for the Metro!

Sheila

C'est vrai, Adam. Ou est la metro? <BR>

Falcon

Spain isn't the only odd country. In Belgium where they speak French they have now also started speaking Nederlands, which is the native language of the neighbouring country:The Netherlands!

elvira

Uh oh forgot Italy in all of this; talk about a country with dialects (pun intended)...of course, those stupid Italians didn't bother to FORM a country until just a short while ago. You would think they could have gotten the country together several centuries ago to make life easier for us world travellers. Oh, and wait, those kooky Maltese, speaking English AND Maltese. They ought to just drop that ancient Phoenician stuff and get with the program.

Joanna

Falcon, the other main language in Belgium is Flemish (I think also known as Walloon - spelling?). The border with The Netherlands probably means that many Belgians choose learn that language - I suppose they can pick up the Dutch TV, radio. There is probably more German learnt near their border with Germany. Lots of countries tend to learn the language of their near neighbours, hence the ubiquity of Bahasa Indonesia in Australian schools.

Brett

Debbie: I wish you luck; hopefully you will be able to learn at least enough (Castillian) Spanish to feel that you are getting a little something more out of your trip. Also don't feel bad if you're not becoming fluent from taking a class; the real learning takes place in the country itself, but that learning curve tends to move quicker if you have a foundation of at least a couple hundered words, which is what the class is for. Hopefuly your trip is not one of those typical American one-week jobbies, as my trip to Paris was. Just when I felt like I was getting somewhat proficient with French, I was headed back to the airport. The observation that even the ability to read signs is valuable, is a valid one. <BR> <BR>As for the question, what is the proper place of dialects in modern Europe, that's too big a question for me. My German friend, when introducing himself to anyone from Spain (Barcelona, etc.) uses the phrase "Yo soy un animalcito feo y flaco, pero muy amable." So off-the-wall that they forget it's not in their preferred local language. I imagine it usually gets a chuckle, if nothing else. <BR> <BR>Buen viaje Debbie!

Joyce

To further confuse everything, the Spanish taught in most US schools is closest to the Mexican dialect and pronunciation/words are different in Spain. Regardless, I can barely speak Spanish, period. But, I fondly remember an incident when I attempted to get directions to the remains of the old Roman bridge in Ronda. I loved the Spanish fresh baked bread, so I also bought a loaf before asking directions. The bakery attendant couldn't understand any of the words I found in my translation book; then I remembered that there was a picture in my tour book. With hand signals she asked if I was walking (two fingers strolling along) or driving (hands on a steering wheel), and then gave me directions in hand signals. It seemed as if I did most of my communicating in hand signals on that trip. After spending 6 weeks in South Spain and at least learning how to order food and drinks, I went to Madrid and found they used completely different words. It was like mastering the Charleston SC dialect and then moving on to Boston!

maria

Dear Debbie: You will not have any problems in Madrid, neither in Bilbao. This summer I will go to Madrid for the first time, but I have been to Bilbao many times, my mother lives there. Bilbao is a beutiful city and averybody speaks perfect spanish. <BR> <BR>Enjoy your trip!!!!

KT

They haven't "started speaking" Flemish in Belgium. Flemish (which is either a dialect of Dutch or a closely related language, depending on your linguistic point of view) has been spoken in the northern part of Belgium for ages. Similarly, the southern part has spoken Walloon (a dialect/relative of French). There's also a small area in eastern Belgium where German is the native tongue. This isn't very odd when you realize that Belgium didn't even exist as a separate country until the 19th century. For a long time, much of Belgium was united with much of what is now the Netherlands. <BR> <BR>Since Falcon knew enough to call Dutch "Nederlands" (its Dutch name) I strongly suspect that he/she knows all of the above and is just having a good time trolling. That goes for his/her first meassage, too.