dan woodlief

Jim, sometimes the answer is unspoken. For example, the waiter brings you the right dish, a railway official gives you the right ticket for the right train, someone shows you where the restroom is, you get double room instead of a single...or you just get treated better because you showed respect for the home language and culture.

Jim

Calm down guys. My point is simply that unless you learn a foreign language to a really high standard, you will never be able properly understand what those foreign folks are saying. And that quickly adds to frustration. I once tried to ask in French "ou es la station?" and got a load of incomprehensible language back and subsequently had to ask in English. As far as culture goes if you are going to travel in spain and can't speak all the local insigificant dialects, then you would be much better off understanding them (and hence their culture) by speaking English there than French or German. <BR>The English speaking world does not focus on learning forign tounges because there is no need. <BR> <BR> <BR>

garnet

HEY, youse guys! Don't nobody do no readin'? I mean, when I travel, I need the local language to be able to READ where I am, which train is leaving on what track, menus, schedules, newspapers, notices on hotel walls ("Hot water will be turned off at 9 pm"), etc. If I don't have a great command of a language, I don't try to ask questions in it because -- you're right -- I won't understand the answer. <BR> <BR>So Debbie, who is sorely in need of her travel experience, should continue the Spanish but make sure she can READ a little in Spanish, even if speaking English does the trick in the main cities. <BR> <BR>As for Latin -- it's helped me tremendously in Romance-language countries. Knowing the cognates/root words help me to guess what a word means, and occasionally I just use my imagination and punt: take the Latin word, add a Spanish or Italian suffix and give it a shot -- you'd be surprised how often people could figure out what I wanted to say.

elvira

I stand corrected, Jim. Learning a new language is certainly a worthless endeavor, unless one can be perfect. Trying to learn something that might give you insight into another part of the world isn't worth anyone's time, especially if one can't reach high standards. <BR>Damn, there goes the plan to take cooking classes in Paris.

ilisa

Elvira, you may as well bag your whole sabbatical. After all, what on earth could you possible get out of it? You know, all that culture crap.

martha python

Hey, everyone, be sure to check Ripley's Believe It or Not: "Although her French was only passable and her Italian marginal, Martha Python is able to ask for AND UNDERSTAND simple information from furriners."

Sheila

<BR>I would be spitting feathers if I said what I really think about those who reckon that it's OK just to shout loud and speak slow ( after all, we're pretty dim over here) <BR> <BR>But Jim, did it occur to you that" ou est la station?" might have got a better response if you you'd used the word "gare" which after all is the French for station?

elvira

That's it...I'm never leaving home again. Bag the cooking classes, the conversational Italian classes; and all those years of martial arts was a waste, 'cause I won't ever be perfect until I'm dead...damn, and I was so looking forward to the rest of my life.

Silly But Entertaining

Come now, let's not start spitting feathers about anything. Wait a minute, I don't know exactly what you mean by the phrase "spitting feathers," Surely you are not using a phrase that is limited to your particular region! Shame on you! I expected more out of someone so culturally superior. Maybe if you said it louder I would understand. <BR> <BR>Elvira shouldn't go to Paris for cooking lessons unless she is already a gourmet chef. Maybe there are some video lessons you could do instead, so as to not humiliate yourself? My condolences on your ruined life, Elvira.

Just

They also don't speak American in America!

dan woodlief

Yeah, what's this "spitting feathers" stuff, Sheila? It might as well be Spanish to me. Here in the southern U.S. they spit tobacco, but I have never heard of feathers... Do you eat whole chickens over there, 'cause I know I have seen whole fish on plates in Europe?

Brian in Atlanta

Dan, they only eat the heart, liver, lungs and stomach of the chicken. Just like they do with sheep.

Sheila

And I was being so careful not to point out that there are 3 native languages here in Scotland before you start onthe dialects! (English, scots and Gaelic for the uninitiated) <BR> <BR>But don't worry, $$laden-tourists-to-be, we all speak Amurican so you'll get by!. <BR> <BR>On the other hand you have now ensured that I will have to go out and buy Fowler's "Modern English Usage" tomorrow since I can't stand not knowing where that phrase, which is in common use here, comes from. <BR> <BR>And since we were talking about haggis, and it's Burn's birthday on Tuesday here goes... <BR>Fair fa' yer honest sonsie face <BR>Great chieftain o' the pudden race <BR>Abune them a' ye tak yer place <BR>Painch, tripe or thairm <BR>Weel are ye worth o a grace <BR>As lang's my airm" <BR> <BR>But I won't give you the other 5 verses. <BR>

elvira

You mean you don't speak Scotch? Holy Transparent Tape! Then that 3-week course I took "Conversational Scotch for your Scotch Trip" WAS a complete waste. <BR>I guess I really will have to stay home.

Sheila

No I don't speak Scotch (I don't drink it either- I drink whisky) <BR> <BR>But another word for the lowland Scots dialect is Erse- and erse means something quite different in Erse. Guess what? <BR> <BR>(woops, I'm getting a bit close to the bone now!)

elvira

And you Scotch can't spell whiskey, either.

Sheila

Well, that's OK; you colonials can' make it!

dan woodlief

I guess this is another sticky situation I have gotten myself into. At least, everyone is being pretty "one-sided" about it.

Edson

First of all, forgive me if my English is not so good (I speak Portuguese, the Brazilian one ...) I really enjoyed reading all that was written here about languages and culture. It shows that people not only talk different, they also think different. I do think that if you want to know a place, you have to know people who live there, and knowing their language helps a lot. Otherwise you will miss the most part of what happens around you. Wherever you are, your effort to speak the local language is very well received, and you will be rewarded for it even if you make some mistakes or don't understand a single word of the repply to your questions; people will try to help you in any way (mimic is the only solution sometimes...). I spoked Castellano in Cataluña (Barcelona and Tarragona - beautiful!) and Valencia, and had no trouble at all. In fact, I was so friendly treated that Spain conquered my heart. For sure, those "teach-yourself" lessons of Español I had before travelling helped a lot ! <BR>So, Debbie, don't give up your Spanish course ! And if you have a chance, learn some Portuguese too ... Espero que faça uma boa viagem e divirta-se bastante ! <BR>By the way, now I am planning a trip to Greece, and guess what? I am thinking seriously in learning some Greek ... <BR>

wes fowler

Debbie, <BR>By all means learn Spanish, whether Castilian, Catalan or Arragonese, where each of the vowels has its own unique and constant sound regardless of where it may appear in a word. Forsake that abominably nonsensical language English entirely since it makes no sense at all when you think about it. Consider the word "ghoti". How to pronounce it in English? Why, "fish", of course! The "gh" sound of enough, the "o" sound of women and the "ti" sound of action - "ghoti" is "fish", without a doubt. "Doubt" - now here's a tough thought to think through. What is the correct, sensible English pronunciation of the two vowels "ou"? Is it the "ow" sound in doubt?, the "uh" sound in tough?, the "aw" sound in thought?, the "oo" sound in through? Why is the "ou" in the Texas city Houston pronounced "yew" but the "ou" in New York's Houston Street pronounced "ow"? While we're at it, where'd the sound of "gh" go in the word through? It's there in tough and enough, but not in through. Who threw it out? Through??? Threw??? That's a whole 'nother story. Wander through this country of ours (there they are again, "oo", "uh" and "ow"!) and listen to the Gullah of the Carolina coastal islands, the Cajun (Acadian) of Louisiana, the "Spanglish" of Miami and the Ebonics of any inner city and ask yourself how you ever managed to learn this nonsensical language called English. In the meantime, keep this thought ("aw") in mind: "I before e, except after c and when sounded like "ay" as in neighbor and weigh". And, for heaven's sakes, don't even think of escaping to England and the Queen's English where "Belvoir" becomes "Beever" and "Cholmondeley" becomes "Chumley". Ay, caramba!