You may remember us - the family of four from New Zealand looking to spend 4-5 weeks in Europe next year. Mostly in Italy.
Since my last post (and taking on board the responses) I've gone away to think more on what we're trying to get from this tour. Walking the fine line between 'this could be our only time here so let's see everything' and 'taking our time and cruising.'
So where I've got to is this - advice still welcome - as much as I can get!
1. NZ to Paris (stopover somewhere) arriving mid June
2. Paris to Marseille on fast train
3. Pick up one of those Peurgot/Citroen lease deal cars for three weeks. Anyone with experience with these?
4. Drive to Genoa along Rivierra. Three overnight stops on way. Any tips on places to stay - probably staying in Saint Tropez and Monte Carlo will be prohibitive.
5. Drive to CT. Is North to South the best way to walk these villages? Will stay one night in a village.
6. Work out what to do with car. Can we take train back to where we left it? Will it still be there?
7. Drive into Tuscany and stay at a villa for four days. Day trips to Florence and surrounds.
8. Drive to Rome (or outskirts) - car probably not required. Spend three days there.
9. Drive to Cassino - see Monastery and war cemetery
10. Now the tricky part.
11. Debating whether we have time to carry on to Pompeii and Amalfi or head over to other side to see family in Ancona? Keen to have a look at Morcone and Pacentro on the way. Any advice on these towns and their accommodation?
12. Get to Venice. Spend a couple of days here.
13. Would love to show the kids that Bavarian castle that Ludwig built.
14. Head to Munich and fly out from there.

I recognize we could never do justice to each city and town we visit in terms of what we see and do but it would be cool to see three countries (Monaco and San Marino not included).
Standing by for incoming!
Really do appreciate your considered opinions.
Ciao

I haven't done the Peugeot auto lease, but I think you still face a big drop fee if you start in France and end in Germany.

You've got at least 2 stops where the car will just sit accumulating parking fees and daily lease costs. Rome and Venice. You don't say how long you'll be staying in either place, but have you compared the single auto lease cost with multiple rentals for only the times you need a car?

#4. I don't know how many days this covers and what else you hope to see in the area, but I wouldn't make 3 o/n stops on the way from Marseille to Genoa. The overall distance isn't that far, and I dislike lots of short hotel stays. But, again, I don't know your plan.

The rest seems like a lot of destinations and driving, even in 4-5 weeks, but it's hard to know without a timeline.

A car is a huge hassle and liability on the Amalfi Coast during high season, so I would suggest heading over to Ancona after Cassino.

The rest is hard to judge without a specific timeline, but it seems like there are quite a few of one-nighters, which eat up alot of time IMO.

re No 4: Concur with Jean and ekc that you should not make three overnite stops between Marseille and Genoa. Marseille is just two hours by car from Nice and Genoa is a further 2.5 hours. So stay in one place for the three nites.

We stayed in Villefrance-sur-Mer (just east of Nice) for three or four nites while we explored the area. Stayed at the Hotel Welcome and loved it. 2014 prices for a Junior Suite that would sleep four are between E300 and E525 depending on the season.

8 through 11: Drop the car on the outskirts of Rome and then take the train to Naples and the Amalfi Coast. You could see Monte Cassino as a day trip from Rome, either via train or via tour company.

12. Either fly or take the train from Naples to Venice.

14. Same from Venice to Munich or you could rent another car in Venice and drive. While it may cost you a bit more to rent two cars, having a car in Rome and Naples is totally impractical, nerve wracking, etc., and would greatly limit the hotels you could choose.

We've driven from Munich to Venice and from Venice to Salzburg (pretty close to Munich) without problems. That way you could see Neuschwanstein Castle on the way to Munich.

It's easy to suggest dropping the car, taking trains or planes, renting multiple/sequential cars instead of one for 3 weeks, etc., but this is a group of 4 people. FarCanal, you need to do the math, check train/plane fares, keeping in mind parking charges (both o/n and daily), fuel costs, tolls, the whole shebang. Viamichelin.com is pretty good for estimating just driving costs.

And I just noticed: The trip is for 4-5 weeks, but you mention a 3-week Peugeuot lease. Are you spending 1-2 weeks in Paris?

It looks like an awful lot of driving to me. Is there any reason the car is necessary? Couldn't you just take trains? Especially considering CT, Amalfi and Venice, where a car would be a hassle to have to deal with.

Are you traveling with children? Are the old enough to carry their own suit cases? If so, you might consider one carry on-size piece of luggage per person, to make lugging suit cases less of a hassle, and then just train it all the way.

I'm not sure why you have Marseille in the mix. Why not fly into Nice (it's not clear if you are spending time in Paris - seems like you are heading to Marseille on arrival)? If you are visiting Paris, then train to Nice (easy to visit nearby towns from there), train to CT. If you still wanted to pick up a lease car, you should be able to do that in Nice.

There are several lease options (most are at least 17 days), but the ones I've seen required airport pick-up/drop-off and I think that is only major airports.

Have you already bought air tickets? Because if not, I suggest you fly to Munich, see the castle, then fly to Genova and begin your trip there, taking the train to le Cinque Terre.

After that, rent a car and visit Tuscany. Then drive to your relatives in the area of Ancona. Drive to Salerno and drop off the car. Use public transportation to spend some nights on the Amalfi coast, and in Pompei.

Take a train to Rome. Take another train to Florence and Venice (don't day trip with a car into Florence).

Take a train or fly from Venice to Paris. Fly home from there.

If you already have your plane tickets into Paris and out of Munich, then reverse what I just suggested.

Just a bit more clarity. Could pick up lease car in Paris but prospect of eight hour drive to Marseille does nothing for me. Our kids have never been on a train before (apart from a metro service) so a fast train would be cool.
A lot of comment here about the relative value of car versus train when travelling. The lease plan I'm looking at for 39 days for a new car is $NZ 2,800. It works out at $NZ 70 a day so even if it's not used every day, I still think its a cost effective level of certainty for four people. Sure, there's a bit of driving but it will be broken up with some extended stays. Plus, I'd hate to think the only way we'd see a quintessential Italian village is through a train window.
Thanks for the tip on the Marseille - Genoa leg of the trip. We will look at a one night stopover halfway through (near Nice).
Still, our travel plan is slowly crystellising so I'll be back for more specific ifo in the near future.
Cheers

In general, the places for which you specify times seem MUCH too rushed to me. Only 3 days for Rome? Just a day trip to Florence? only a couple of days in Venice? It seems to me that you will be spending a LOT of time in transit for relatively little time in any of the destinations you will pass through. Give some thought to paring your wish list down.

I completely understand the desire to drive everywhere. Freedom, spontaneity, access to small towns, etc. But before you decide that the lease is a "deal," you need to calculate fuel, toll and parking costs and find out whether there is a drop fee.

I plugged the bare bones of your route into viamichelin.com. The estimated fuel and tolls will amount to at least 500 euros which is NZ$825. That's without any wandering, exploring or detouring off the main route to those quintessential Italian villages. If there's a drop fee (I saw 300 euros on one website), that's another NZ$495.

Parking while you're in Venice will run 24-29 euros (NZ$40-48) a day. You may find cheaper parking in several other of your destinations, but you'll likely be paying something nearly every night.

I am not sure why you are flying into Paris when you don't plan to stay more than overnight. It is usually much cheaper to rent a car in one country and return it there. Since your focus seems to be Italy, why not just make this an Italian trip? You could fly into one Italian city and out of another. I also don't understand why you would fly out of Munich unless you had a specific interest in seeing that city.

Hi FarCanal (get the screen name, he he)

I'm Australian so understand that you want to make the most of your long flights to Europe.
About 10 years ago DH & I took 8 weeks to work our way from the UK to Rome, largely on the fly, and mostly using trains. It was a great way to see some amazing sights, and decide on where to return for a more in depth experience.

The best advantage you have now is time, and plenty of it, to investigate, to price options, and to ask questions on this forum.

Please do Paris and Rome justice, I would say 5 nights each for a good look around and feel for those cities. The Amalfi Coast is spectacular, Sorrento is an easy base. Pompeii - well, it's a sight every person should see, if for nothing else than bringing a pretty ancient history to life.

We enjoyed Marseiiles and Nice, but don't expect the kind of beaches you are used to.

As far as stopovers go, that will largely depend on your airline. We've used Bangkok, Singapore, and KL.
My preferred choice is Bangkok, because it's so much cheaper than Singapore (but Changi is one of the worlds best airports).

Are the kids involved in the planning ? What do they want to see ?

Just as an FYI, when I did a Peugot lease, I picked up the car in Nice and ended up leaving it in Milan without any drop off fee. But that was a few years ago.

It is possible to get very economical train fares in Italy if you book in advance or take advantage of the many deals they offer for family and off-peak travel.

Since you have said the trip is mostly about Italy, is there any way of eliminating that long coastal drive in southern France? It is a very built up area, with a lot of modern infrastructure. Along the mediterranean coast of Italy, all the most beautiful and characteristic villages are best reached by train or ferry.

If you must fly into Paris, consider taking the train from Paris to Torino (the town is a lot of fun), and then picking up the car there to head to le Cinque Terre. You will end up parking at many euros per day while you hike or swim, but then you could proceed right on to Tuscany with the car, and then on to visiting your relatives on the Adriatic coast.

At the pace of your original trip, I don't think you would be doing much more than glimpsing Italian villages from your car window. I enjoy road tripping and appreciate the freedom and ease of moving luggage with a car, but hours of driving in some of the most congested areas of coastal France has been something I really didn't enjoy. Nor have I ever enjoyed driving in and out of Florence and Rome. The new Italian fast trains are really wonderful and you can have the best of both worlds using them in combination with some car renting.

Is there something you plan to see in Marseille? Why not just train to Nice and pick up the car?

I don't think your car costs factor in all the parking since many towns in Italy (including Rome/Florence and a lot of hill towns) are restricted to residents in the central part so you aren't allowed to drive in (unless you want some big fines). Parking can easily run 30-40€ per day in cities.

If you are going to take a train to Nice and pick up the car, you should at least do some comparison shopping to see if spending one night or more in Nice and afterwards taking the train to Italy and picking up the car there would save you money, provided you drop it off in Italy, not Munich.

I don't think the hassle and expenses of parking and having a car is as bad as some people are making it out to be, but there are some destinations in Italy where people have really lived to regret taking a car. Rome and Florence are high on the list. Some people hate driving the Amalfi. Some enjoy it, even in traffic. But it is really only half-true that a car equals freedom. For an important chunk of your itinerary, it will really dictate what you can do. It will drive you -- not the other way around! It is already doing that. Distorting your trip.