Bob,
Thanks for describing the passes – Grimsel sounds interesting, because all the view points.

Schuler,
I’m a little confused – is it “Gotthard Pass” OR “Gotthard Tunnel”? Or “Gotthard Pass” AND “Gotthard Tunnel”? In other words, are they mutually exclusive, parallel roads? Or do you have to take one to get to the other one? I think it’s one OR the other, but please confirm.

Good point about the weather, we’ll keep that in mind.
I googeled the 3 passes for pictures – wow! That’s all I can say. Love them all, can’t wait to get there.

There is a tunnel that runs for about 15 miles under everything.
It is part of the Swiss autobahn system and exits on those highways at times are limited. The tunnel has only one way in and one way out!!

There is the older St. Gotthard Pass road that winds over the mountains.

The interfaces between the two are limited.

I hope Schuler sees this so he can add some detail. I have not actually driven the whole way to the Ticino.

Once you get on the A2 highway, exits are not plentiful.

I have a Michelin map of Switzerland, and it is not all that good. Lacks substantial detail.

There has got to be a better one!!

Right, Bob.

There are two roads:

The St. Gotthard Pass that goes over the mountain

and

The Gotthard tunnel that goes through the mountain.

The Autobahn has usually two lanes. The outside lane is used for normal driving and the inside lane is used for passing.

I can't warn you enough about the potential problem with traffic jams before the Gotthard pass. Let's say you've chosen to go over the Gotthard Pass or Nufenen pass. In Bellinzona, you see the sign above the Autobahn stating "10 km Stau", meaning 10 km congestion before the Gotthard TUNNEL. Do not take the Airolo exit (last exit before the tunnel) but take an earlier one (Faido or Quinto) and drive the parallel road up to the passes.

I've just had a look on Google Maps and put in the word "Airolo". You'll see there's a yellow road that snakes along the Autobahn. That's the parallel road. Keep this all in mind and you'll be able to avoid traffic jams.

Another excellent website for a Swiss map is: http://map.search.ch/airolo
I've added airolo for you. You can change your destination in the the "addresse" box.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
FRAU Schuler

But you can call me Schuler.

Frau Schuler:
Bitte entschuldigen Sie, aber nur "Schuler" ist ein bissschen nich geschlechtsspezifisch. Der Schüler ist bestimmt masculin, deswegen war ich verwirrt. Viellicht die Schülerin is mehr genau. Aber ü gehört nicht zu ihrem Name!!

Ich bin bestimmt ein Mann obschon ein Mann der sehr alt und alterschwach ist.

Bob ist mein Rufname, aber er ist nicht mein Reisepass Name.

Bob,
I have a Michelin map, too – and I thought it might not be that great. Anyway, we’ll get a GPS, too so between the map and the GPS, I think we’ll be fine.

Schuler / Frau Schuler
Thanks for the “stau” tip, and the Airolo directions and map. Hope to be able to avoid the traffic.

Hi Bob,

Your written German is very good. Probably better than mine. I feel so feminine when I write these posts that I'm often taken back when someone sees me as a man. Absolutely no offence taken because you are certainly right; you sure can't tell by my name. And you might be one of the few who knows the meaning behind it.

I've always assumed you're a well-travelled man because of your name and posts. And you definitely know BO better than 99% of the other posters here. Have you ever started your own info thread on the BO before? Your information is invaluable.

Let me urge you to get a better map.
I don't trust those @%@ GPS systems and here is why.

This past trip we left Munich in a free upgrade that had a GPS. I loaded the appropriate disk in the player and made sure that the gadget was speaking English.

On our way to Switzerland, we stopped in Kempten, Bavaria, to visit a former student and teaching colleague of mine.

When we left Kempten in the direction of Lindau, we used route B12. As we neared Isney we were sent off on a detour that was poorly marked. Somewhere along the way we either missed a sign or the sign was missing. At any rate, we were lost.

The gibbering GPS was no help because it was trying to send me back the way I had come. The Michelin map of Bavaria was not much help either. Road signs did not point to the towns on the map, and the towns that the road signs pointed to were not on the map.

So in essence both the GPS and the map were useless. I had my compass and we took any road that went either south or west or southest.
Finally I saw a sign that pointed to Isney and we were ok from that point. We soon rejoined B12 west of Isney and continued on toward Lindau.

Later in Switzerland, we decided to drive up a twisting road to a hamlet called Saxeten just to see what was there. I programmed Saxeten into the GPS and let it calculate the route. My wife, who is most skeptical of those things anyhow because of the one we have here in the US that cannot even find our son's house in Cobb County without feeding us bogus directions, said jokingly: I am going just where that thing says go.

Well, near Wilderswil south of Interlaken, the GPS went into high gear. Turn here, turn there. We did as told, and drove into some guy's garage.

My wife just about died laughing, backed the car up, went back to the main road, and went the way we knew to go all along from the Swiss road signs.

We also played with it asking it how to get to Mürren, which is as far as I know not really accessible by a passenger car. That stupid thing tried to send us up a trail on the side of the valley, which is darn near vertical in most places.

The laughing stock of Lauterbrunnen last summer was some American with a GPS in a big Mercedes who tried to drive to Wengen. He ended up stuck on a narrow road, one wheel off the road. He was blocking the road so that the farmer could not get his cows to the barn for milking so the authorities cited him for blocking farm access. The man driving then got into a heated argument with the cops.

At that point the story divides. Some had him being taken to jail, others said he was told to be quiet or he would go to jail. I am not sure which version to believe. At any rate, the locals had a good time talking about it.

I have not really thought about an organized thread on the Berner Oberland. What I know is piecemeal from several visits.

Trying to organize it would be too much like work! After I wrote my last book, I said to myself on retirement day: I don't have to work any more!!

I do volunteer at a local medical center in the pre operating area, but that is just for the fun of the patient interaction I get.

I prefer to share with people who seem to want to know about the area, and I can tailor what I say to fit the situation.

That is my interest, and my ambition.

ROTFLMAO - these stories are too good, Bob. I hope you had a good laugh as well while trying to get to Saxeten.

I.

Bob,

<<Let me urge you to get a better map.>>

Is there any you can recommend? We are leaving on Friday, so we need to either get it express shipping from Amazon or get it in Switzerland. Thanks

Get the map in Switzerland after inspecting them. I am not sure which one to suggest. Look at the detail of small towns and particularly look for exist numbers on the freeways.

I need a different map particularly for Germany. My friend who lives in Kempten had a book of area maps that was published in Germany. Had I had his book I would not have been wandering about the country side wondering where the heck I was.

Fortunately I knew about where I was, so heading in the right direction was no problem with a compass. But I find it to be a heck of a note that I have a map of Bavaria in my hand and the town I am in is not shown nor is any town shown on the road signs on my map!!

Yes. We had a good laugh as my wife backed out of that guy's garage. She did not really drive all the way in, she stopped short of that.
I should have rung the door bell and asked whomever answered "Entschuldigen, bitte. Ich habe mich verirrt. Können Sie mich sagen wie ich nach Chicago fahren?" I am not sure the Swiss have my sense of humor.

There was one of those map services that gave great driving directions from New York to London. Somebody a while back posted the link on this forum. I checked it out.

Sure enough, it gave accurate directions. Go down such and such a street, turn right to pier x, and SWIM 3000 MILES northeast to Southhampton. Then it resumed with driving directions to London.

A real screamer that one was.

I wonder if that guy who tried to drive to Wengen would have followed those directions as well??

At any rate, he at least gave the locals around Lauterbrunnen a good laugh. I don't think the local cops were too amused nor was the farmer whose pathway to the barn was blocked. As any of us who know beans about cows can tell you: Come late afternoon those ladies need to be milked. They have been chewing hard all day just to produce the raw material for cheese.

Bob,
I remember those directions for NY to London, where swimming was involved (about 3500 miles). I tried to google it again, but it seems they took it off. Too bad, that was funny

I hope that with the Michelin map and the GPS we’ll make it to Celerina – we’ll be probably tired, and not in the mood to look for a map in the airport or Zurich. But hopefully we’ll get a better map the next days. At least, now I know what to look for. Thanks

The drive to Celerina is really easy. You won't get lost.

By all means, don't drive the Julier Pass - Albula Pass is much nicer, less traffic and more scenic.

And on the way from Celerina to Lugano I'd recommend to have a break in Soglio. Parking is a hassle there, though.

Have a great trip! And I do hope you post a report when back.

I.

Ingo,
After so much reading about Switzerland (mainly the 3 regions we’ll be in), I still hear about new things to do and see. Need to look into the Albula Pass – you never mentioned it before. What took you so long?
I just saw some pictures online, looks great – but again, all the Switzerland pictures I saw look great.

Yes, we’ll definitely stop in Soglio, and will probably try to spend most of the day there, on the way to Lugano. And will definitely have a report when we get back. Hope to see your pictures before we leave on Friday.

To help you get an idea where Albula Pass is, see:

http://www.alpentourer.com/alpine_passes/switzerland/

A very interesting pass and a favourite of many motorcyclists.

I wish I knew who published the best road map of Switzerland. I have gotten most of my European maps from One Map Place in Dallas, but those often come sight unseen.

Just recently I ordered a map of Prague. It is excellent. After field testing it in Prague in late June, I think I can pronounce it the best one of its kind that I have used.

What I needed was a clear indication of the streets and of the tram lines. We had no trouble despite those winding streets. We found our way everywhere we wanted to go within the Prague area.

That to me is the test of a good map: It serves its purpose.

The Prague map was published by International Travel Maps in Vancouver, B. C. It is a division of ITMB Publishing LTD.

I think any road map of Switzerland will get you to Celerina. There are not that many roads in that part of the nation.

Where I find my Michelin map to be deficient is when I want to deviate from the major routes and wander around the hills and valleys.

It is also difficult in some cases to identify exit number off the autobahns.

I have found my way around Switzerland fairly well with my Michelin map, so it is not THAT bad.
On the other hand, road signs in Switzerland strike me as being better than average thus making route finding easy, provided you know the names of the towns on your route.

I did get very frustrated with my map of Bavaria that day we were forced to take a detour off of B12.

The map was a specific map of Bavaria, and it failed to show many of the towns through which I was wandering after we lost the detour route. As I said, the road signs pointed to towns that were not on the map, and the towns in the vicinity that were on the map did not appear on road signs. It was a double case of "there wasn't one."

To compound the problem, I had ceased to trust that babbling GPS I had in the car.

By the way, that story about the GPS routing us into some guy's garage is true. Admittedly we were playing games with the contraption, but my wife, who was driving, was doing just what it told her to do. She did NOT improvise like a jazz musician who decides he can do better than what is on the sheet of music.

If you have time go to a large bookstoe like Barnes and Noble or Borders and see if it has a street map of Zürich.

Getting out of the airport and on the freeway to Chur is your first hurdle. I have driven through Zürich a time or two, and I still wonder how I did it without getting lost. There is no freeway to take you from the airport through town that I know of.

That is one reason I said you will need a map of some description because it helps a lot to know th names of the towns on your route. That is how I navigate: I follow signs to towns rather than looking for route numbers like I do in the US. Over here, I will go through a town and now know its name, but I know the highway number; over there, I often don't know the route number but I do know the name of the next town.

If you cannot find a good map of Zürich go to one of the map services on Internet like MapQuest and print out several pages of detailed maps to get you through the tricky spots. You can tell what they are by visual inspection of the route.

I did that very successfully last year and this in Austria and Switzerland. I knew that the interface between the Austrian autobahn and the Swiss freeway would be tricky. So I printed out very detailed maps of the area where we were to cross the Rhine on non main highways. It worked fine; the only two minor glitches came when the map indicated that we had to take a road out of a traffic circle. The map made it look like the turn was 90 degrees around the circle; it was more like 30 so my wife missed the turn. No problem, just stay on the circle and come back to it.

Then after we crossed the Rhine, the sign pointing to the freeway was AFTER the turn onto the ramp rather than before it. Again, no problem, just turn around and go back about 200 yards and turn right.

I think you will have a great time of it. Driving on those roads over the mountains are fun and spectacular. As you can tell I go to Switzerland for the peaks and valleys. I feel that those who focus on the cities, as nice as they are, miss out on the real Switzerland. (Lausanne and Luzern stike me as lovely places. Bern is nice and neat, and Interlaken is a thriving place. I even like Zermatt despite its singleness of purpose: tourism. Even so it has shops that offer unique items for sale.)

The reason is that I am just back from the Engadin and was annoyed with the traffic and the road works on the Julier pass road. ;-)

I think if you drive the motorway N1b/N1 from the airport towards Winterthur, then turn near Wallisellen in direction Uster and continue direction Rapperswil you can avoid downtown Zürich and be a little faster. Any comments, schuler?

Btw, I found the Hallwag map Switzerland to be the best.

I.

Schuler,
Thanks for the link. There is so much to do and see in Engadine…and we only have 3 days there (no, I do not include our first day, since we’ll be so tired and won’t do much). It will be so hard to decide, but we’ll play it by ear – and the weather. I have a long list of thing I would love to see and do, but I think I would need at least a week there

Bob,
We also go there for peaks and valleys. I’m sure we’ll love it, all the pictures of Switzerland look like postcards.

Ingo,
I’ll write down those directions – hope to be able to avoid the city. But we land in Zurich at 9 am on Saturday, so even if we get lost and get into the city, hopefully the traffic will not be too bad.

Ingo: Absolutely. We take that same route when going to Winterthur. It's much easier. It's best to avoid Zürich city when possible because it's a bit tricky to drive through and can get quite congested during rush hour.

However, if it's not rush hour or a Friday night or Sunday night, it shouldn't matter too much if you take the A3 (through Wädenswil) or the N1.

Friday nights during the summer are notorious for holiday traffic coming from north and heading south. Likewise, Sunday afternoons and evenings often have congested traffic due to holiday makers coming from south and heading north (back home).

http://map.search.ch/wallisellen.en.html