bob_brown

From First a nice hike is to wander across the meadow to the restaurant at Grosse Scheidegg. The trail is diffuse at times because different hikers have beaten different sub trails in the grass. They all converge at the end. You can see the restaurant because there are no trees in the way.

You can buy a combi ticket to ride up to First on the gondola and ride down from Grosse Scheidegg on the Post Bus.

The last time I was there, private cars were not allowed on the road between Grindelwald and Grosse Scheidegg.

One thing to remember about the trains is that the connections from Grindelwald back to Wengen become lousy timewise after the 17:50 departure from Grindelwald. You must change at Zweilütschinen and the timing of the trains from Interlaken Ost to Lauterbrunnen is not good after 18:16.

One thing I have not yet explained is the train to Lauterbrunnen from Interlaken Ost.

The trains to Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald leave Interlaken Ost as one combined train from either Gleis 1 or Gleis 2. The train divides at a stop called Zweilütschinen - where the two forks of the Lutschine River meet. The front half of the train goes to Lauterbrunnen; the back half goes to Grindelwald.

On the return journeys the Grindelwald train pulls in first and then the Lauterbrunnen joins it.

Therefore when you leave Interlaken Ost, the Lauterbrunnen train is from Sektor A. The blue and yellow cars have hangtags (as I recall) designating the destination.

Ingo

I'm still in Sils. Just a quick note.

Of the cable car trips you're planning I would do Muottas Muragl and Diavolezza. Piz Nair is not that spectacular IMO. And the first section of Piz Corvatsch is not worth to see at all.

Found the Julier Pass not very scenic and was stuck there in heavy traffic plus annoyed by road works (yesterday). Savognin ... hm. Not really my first choice.

Definitely Soglio! The other villages in the valley are picturesque too. Vicosoprano, Bondo, Promontogno ...

Have a great trip!

I.

jmw444

We'll all be thinking of you while you're there. Ditto everyone's compliments on your itinerary. Try to visit Morcote while your toodling Lugano's lake.

And if you've got time for art, there's an excellent exibition called "enigma helvetia" at the Museo d'Arte (and the Museo Cantonale) several blocks beyond my beloved S. Maria degli Angioli along the promenade. It's an expansive, innovative exhibition which groups works by themes of what it is to be Swiss. The exhibition is big enough for two museums, but the better part is at the Museo d'Arte Moderne.

One would think my best memory of Gandria would be the quaint lanes and cuddled houses. But no, it's my lunch of rigatoni gorgonzola. (Actually, it's been so many years, it might have been penne'). Oh, my. J.

LLindaC

Gandria....pasta, yes! However, we failed to check the ferry times and almost had to get a cab...do check that!

TuckH

deladeb, Were you able to overcome your fear of twisty roads and hairpin turns?

deladeb

Tuck-Twisty didn't bother me as much as narrow with bikes on one side motorcycles on the other and the oncoming traffic always straddling the center lane. It's amazing how you adapt and luckily DH is a defensive driver. The roads were well paved and the narrowness didn't occur often.
The day we left Silvaplana we drove over the Julier Pass to Andermatt and toward lake Spies/Thun region. WOW, 5 hours of driving and probably not even a quarter mile stretch of straight road. The scenery was magnifucent though!
Another tip for you xyz99: If you are not near or are not hungry for a lunch stop I always had on hand a snack baggie of Dark chocolate covered M&M's (almonds and peanuts) mixed in with plain nuts. I packed 14 of these before leaving. Water can be cheap at the Coop...1.5 L bottle for .30 Swiss Francs, and you can buy it in a 6 pack.

xyz99

Deladeb,
Thanks for narrowing down our options regarding all the lifts in Engadine. I was not aware of the Luge in Grindelwald, we’ll definitely try it. Actually, I also want to try paragliding – anyone tried it, any comments? And dark chocolate covered M&M's (almonds and peanuts) – you don’t have to work hard to convince me

Bob,
Thanks again for the hikes recommendations and the train tips. I checked with Avis, adding one more day to the car rental and changing the drop-off location would add more than a $100 to the price. That’s more than the half fare for the train but might still be worth it, for allowing us to stop on the way and enjoy the scenery.

Ingo,
It seems that there is so much to see and do in Engadine, that I’m not worried at all that we’ll do them all and run out of things to do in 3 full days. I’m sure we’ll actually do only some of all the things I would like to do, but we’ll love it. Hope the weather gets better.

Jmw,
Yes, Marcote and Gandria are both on the list. Unfortunately, with only 2 days in Lugano I don’t think we’ll have time for any art exhibition, and we’ll prefer to spend the time enjoying the nature. Rigatoni gorgonzola…that sounds delicious, we’ll look for it.

And another question for Bob and LLinda (and all the photographers out there): I’m trying to decide what lens(es) to take. I will definitely take the wide angle, but should I take a long zoom? I am interested in birds and dragonflies, but would there be any such opportunities in Switzerland? Don’t want to carry a heavy lens if I don’t have to….Thanks.

bob_brown

I have lugged my share of SLR lenses around those hills. Now I have a digital with one zoom lens that goes from about 2 feet to however far the equal of a 400 mm lens is on an SLR.

Even if it is a Canon camera, I don't the lens is that sharp, unfortunately.

When I had my slr, I took along a 38 - 105 zoom and an 80 - 200 zoom.
Those were the only two lenses I took.

Even with digital if you want to take a telephoto shot at 300 or more, I think you will want a tripod, one of those little boys, just to have something to help steady the camera and allow time for framing without having to hold the camera up for a long time.

if your camera is like mine in that you can look at a reproduction of the image right after you take it, you will have a chance to test the readings and pick the best one.

As I said earlier, when aiming south toward the mountains, the sun is in the wrong place, so you will need to adjust your light meter settings in accordance with what gives you the best results. I finally decided on a spot reading based on the principal subject in the frame.

I then took several exposures at different settings. The only problem with that is that now I have a massive editing job to do with Photoshop.

I must admit that this is a wild year for auto rental contracts. I knew I had a strange one price wise when AutoEurope had a much higher price for returning the car in Zürich at the airport than if I returned the car a day earlier at the Avis agency in Interlaken.

The cost difference was similar to what you experienced: The train fare was cheaper than the cost for the extra day and the escalation in the one-way drop fee. (I got the car in Munich.)

I think you will have to weigh the value of the extra cost against the scenic aspects of one or more of the three passes I mentioned.

Although they are all close to each other geographically, they are different in personality. The Furka is tight and winding, the Grimsel goes over barren rocks, and the Sustern is much greener than the other two. All are thrilling.

I think if I was paying an extra day of rent on a car I would make sure I got my money's worth. If you exited the freeway near Andermatt and backtracked a little over the Furka and the Grimsel Passes to Inertkirchen, Meiringen and Interlaken, I think you would get your money's worth. If you drove up to the top of the Sustern Pass and then retraced your steps, you really would have a day of it.

Is it worth it? That is of course not for me to say.

Oh yes. Gotta throw in one more hike. All the ones we have discussed until now are views of the peaks, the big perspective. The next one is a trip into the inner mountain world: the Kilchbalm.

It is a trip along a glacial valley into a deadend cirque where a few hundred years ago a glacier melted out as the climate warmed. The walls of the cirque itself stream with waterfalls and abound in snow banks early in the season (June and July, even early August.)

To get there, take the post bus from Lauterbrunnen to Stechelberg and the valley station of the Schilthornbahn. Take the first stage of the Luftseilbahn up to Gimmelwald. Get off, and locate the signs to the Kilchbalm.

The trail is relatively flat as mountain trails go and you terinate in the cirque on flat ground that suddenly goes straight up.

One time when we were there cows were grazing. We had to walk around them because they were lying down chewing. Don't worry, if you don't know cows, rest assured that they will not bother you if you don't bother them. These are milk cows and they are used to humans.

I don't usually see bulls out grazing in the alpine pastures. They are a little too much to put out in the open.

I would not worry too much about which hikes you take. Just get out and get moving and you will see something beautiful.

Our week in Lauterbrunnen seemed to disappear like a shot. We are home now, and the whole trip evaporated all 18 days in a flash.

LLindaC

It's quite another thing to run into a herd of Herens (horned)black cows. They are notorious for being "testy" and they are the ones they use for fighting. We came across a herd on the trail and we detoured over manure piles, through a stream and clinging to vines to avoid them! LOL..they might as well have been BEARS.

xyz99

Bob,
For the umpteenth time, thanks.
We extended the car rental for one more day, although now, that I looked at viamichelin, I realized that the price difference between driving to Interlaken or taking the train might be much higher, when you consider the “road tax”. What is that? Is it something included in the car rental fee, or something like tolls, that you pay as you go?
Anyway, I’m sure it will be worth it…ten years from now we’ll not remember the $100, but the views.

I think I’ll end up taking my wide angle and the 300 mm zoom, and use the point-and-shoot in between. This way I don’t carry a lot, but I’m “covered”.

You know, I read somewhere about the Kilchbalm, but never found more details on it, though it looked very interesting. It seems less travelled, and this might be just what we’re looking for. Thanks.

Linda,
So if we see black cows we turn away and run? How can you tell them apart from normal, docile cows?

LLindaC

Oh I don't think you'll have to worry about them!! They just LOOK fierce.

bob_brown

Switzerland requires that you have on your car a highway tax sticker sometimes called a vignette.

If you rent your car in Zürich, it should already have a highway vignette for Switzerland pasted on the windshield. That will be all you need. Every time I have rented a car in Interlaken, it has had the sticker already on it. (It would be sort of cheap of the rental agency not to put it on there.)

This year and last, I rented from Avis in Munich and had to buy the sticker (vignette) for both Austria and Switzerland.

Germany has no such tax sticker, but I know that Austria and Switzerland require it for freeway driving.

It is one of those little things that reminds one that even though the Schengen agreement has made border passport controls less frequent, each nation is still capable of setting its own tax laws!!

Switzerland by the way is not part of anything like the euro zone or the EU nor did it sign the Schengen Agreement.

When I cross into Switzerland I expect to show my passport. Last year when we crossed the Rhine from Austria into Switzerland we drove past the border patrol station quite easily. The passport control consisted of a hand emerging from the window waving us on. This year we had a full blown check of our passports at the same place. Why? Search me.

xyz99

Bob,
Good to know the hogway tax is already included in the rental car fee.
10 more days to go

bob_brown

Well, let me hedge a trifle: The vignette for autobahn (freeway) driving SHOULD be included.
I have never rented a car in Switzerland without one. BUT this seems to be a crazy year for rentals. It is slightly possible that a car originally rented outside of Switzerland crept into the airport lot in Zürich.

At any rate, I have learned to make no automatic assumptions. Whoever got the car my wife and I turned in will benefit from our expense because it will have our vignette plastered to the lower right side of the windshield.

Let me add a caution here. As you drive north on the freeway from Italy toward Andermatt, a long section of it is underground. You will need to be alert to your exit.
Decide before hand where you want to get off and be looking for it.

You will need to decide if you want to do two mountain passes or one. I think it depends on how well you adjust to that kind of driving. My chauffeur is not fearful of those passes although she respects them for what they are. The roads are well engineered and one need only adhere to the rules of common sense without succumbing to panic or mindless fear.

You might do it this way: Exit for the Sustern Pass. Drive over it and then decide if you would like a taste of the Grimsel Pass. The road that descends from the Sustern leads to Innertkirchen. The road to the Grimsel Pass leads out of the same village.

I tend to like the Grimsel Pass the best because the top is above tree line and there are places to park where you can get good views.

On the Innertkirchen side of the pass, there is a hotel just below the crest. There is parking there, a power dam, and a place to eat.

The other alternative of course is to take both the Furka and the Grimsel Passes to Innertkirchen. Unless you totally change your route, you cannot do just the Grimsel Pass.

Incidentally, as you drive toward Interlaken from Meiringen you will pass some nice waterfalls coming off the south face of the cliffs that form part of the Aar Valley.

You cannot see them from the highway, but the Falls of the Reichenbach are close by, near the parking area for a hospital near Meiringen. If you read any of the Sherlock Holmes stories these falls will have meaning. Otherwise they don't and the falls by late in the summer have slowed to moderate stream. This summer has been wet, so there may be some water left.

I don't think you can go wrong any way you approach it. As far as I am concerned, I think it is a win/win situation. Of course weather can play a role, but even so, you will enjoy the lakes and the other aspects of alpine scenery.

I hope you enjoy your experiences in the Berner Oberland as much as I have on many occasions.

kleeblatt

Bob Brown is a wealth of information and I learn from his posts everytime I read them.

There are quite a few options to reach Interlaken.

1. Get off in Airolo (last exit before the Gotthard Tunnel) and do Nufenenpass and Grimselpass.

2. Go over the Gotthard (not through it) and you'll land in Hospenthal (which is right before Andermatt on the Furka side). From there you can go through Andermatt and continue on the Autobahn OR take the Furka and Grimselpass.

3. Go through the Gotthard tunnel and take the Sustenpass.

Please note: if you go through the Gotthard, you'll come out at Goeschenen, which is below Andermatt. You'll have to backtrack up the hill to get to Andermatt.

All options are good and I can't recommend one over the other.

To see a barebone map of the passes:
http://www.alpentourer.de/alpenpaesse/region6/

Avoiding traffic jams be the Gotthard tunnel:

We've been having lots of traffic jams before the Gotthard tunnel lately. This is typical in summer, especially from Friday - Sunday. You'll see a lit up board on the Autobahn in the Bellinzona area giving you info about "staus" (conjestion / jams) before the Gotthard. If you see this, take out your map and get off at an earlier exit. There's a local road that parallels much of the autobahn in the upper part of the valley towards the Gotthard. Take this road and avoid going through the Gotthard by taking one of the passes.

Try to avoid the traffic jams because it's hard on your clutch and gets real boring after awhile.

bob_brown

Schuler is more current on the highways between Switzerland and Italy than I am, by far. No contest in fact.

In this case I think his advice is well worth considering. Take a look at the map and have an alternative route in mind.

The tunnel has an advantage in speed when traffic is flowing. When things are bogged down, I dislike being in tunnels very much. If that thing is clogged, I would not hesitate to take his alternative route.

If you are stuck in a subterranean traffic jam, it is not much fun, particularly when you could be above ground seeing a nice view.

Those mountain passes deserve respect, but they are not dangerous if the driver uses a little common sense.

For example, we drove up to the crest of the St. Bernard Pass to see the old hospice where the St. Bernard dogs are kept. I had heard from others that the pass was steep and winding, treacherous even.

My wife drove us up to the hospice. When we got to the top of the pass, she wanted to know where the steep part was. She was not sure if I was kidding her or not when I said that we were at the top. I assured her that the next move was downhill.

I think she was looking for one of those Colorado dirt road passes that wind around the mountain to elevations of 12,000 feet or more. Those can be a little thought provoking.

Anyone who has traversed Cumberland Pass or Cottonwood Pass knows what I mean.

xyz99

Bob and Schuler,
You guys are fantastic – I really need to study this with a map, thank you so much. We will do the pass (or passes) after a week driving in Engadine, which I hear has its own challenges. So I hope we’ll be prepared. We drove in Europe before, and had fun on narrow roads in Ireland last year. If the Swiss pass roads are wide enough for 2 passing cars, do not allow sheep crossing, have a minimal shoulder and a railing, we will be fine

Part of what we’re looking for is not only the drive, but stopping too, to enjoy the views. So if Grimsel Pass offers this, it is a big contender.

If this was your first trip to Switzerland, and maybe to only one in your life (who knows what the future will bring, it’s a big world with lots of other places to visit), so, in that case, what would be your option #1 way to drive from Lugano to Interlaken?

We’ll be doing this drive on a Saturday, so we’ll try to avoid the Gotthard tunnel.

bob_brown

Of the three passes I named, the Sustern, Grinsel and Furka, all are different in terms of what you see.

The Sustern in my view is greener.
The Grimsel is grimmer, if you will excuse the play on words.
The Furka is very winding and I don't recall a place to stop and view. There may be one, but it has been about 5 years since I drove over that particular one.

We spend a night on the Grimsel Pass two years ago and drove to the top of it last year.

Let me explain about "grimmer." There are fewer trees in view as you climb the Grimsel Pass. You see instead a lot of dark rock. As you reach the top, there are viewpoints above tree line.

On the Sustern Pass there is a good forest cover most of the way.

Each pass has its own character, its own features and its own dramatic impact.

What appeals to one person may not appeal to another.

I happen to like the Grimsel because of the starkness of the landscape and the fact that you can see a long ways from the various viewpoints which provide parking opportunities.

To a great extent it depends on what you want to see.

Just remember that those passes are well engineered, but they deserve respect. We don't race around squalling the tires, that is for sure. Both my wife and I are past 70 and we did not survive this long by being foolish all the time.

I know one thing: If I could relive my teen years with current wisdom, I would live at a much lower risk!!

kleeblatt

Which passes to drive? It's a tough decision.

I think I would do:

-the Gotthard Pass
-the Furka Pass
-the Grimsel Pass

and then on to Interlaken.

The Gotthard Pass is quite easy and the road is very wide.

The Gotthard tunnel: The traffic jams happen before the tunnel due to a "drop system", which allows only x amount of cars into the tunnel. Normally, the tunnel itself doesn't have traffic jams.

kleeblatt

Just wanted to add that the weather would be the first determiner of deciding to drive the passes or not.

If the passes are in fog or low clouds, skip them. In poor visibility, they can be very dangerous.

If you're tight on time and would like to do just one pass, then do the Susten. Go through the Gotthard tunnel (or over the Gotthard pass) and get off at the Wassen exit.