Switzerland, Italy, France & Netherlands
Nov 14th, 2019, 08:33 AM
#22
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Chethan, this is a sensible decision. Do you still have to fly home out of Zurich or can that be changed? If Zurich, then Switzerland and one other place close enough like Paris would make sense. Otherwise Paris and Amsterdam would be wonderful, also Ljubljana and Venice.
StCirq, the OP has already been to Budapest.
StCirq, the OP has already been to Budapest.
Nov 14th, 2019, 08:49 AM
#24
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Bratislava - Ljubljana 7h21min one transfer in Wien
Bratislava - Zürich direct train in 9 hours
That's not a huge difference, not to mention you could travel to Zürich in a time. effective way by the night train from Wien, while there is no night train to Ljubljana.
Nov 14th, 2019, 09:37 AM
#25
I think if you are going with your wife, a few days in Paris would be very nice. If it's her first visit to Europe, Paris would be perfect. But don't go unless you can spend a few days there.
You also mentioned Venice. That would be great. But don't go unless you can spend a few days there.
That would be my advice.
I would fly to save time.
Nov 14th, 2019, 10:18 AM
#26
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It's dubious that flying saves time where a night train alternative exists.
There is no direct flight from Bratislava to Venice, but Vienna Airport is very close.
Take the last flight in the evening from Vienna around 8pm, you have to leave Bratislva around 5pm the latest, get to Venice after 10pm check in and sleep.
Or take the first flight in the morning at 9 am, must leave Bratislava by 6am at least, arrive to Venice by 11am.
By train you can leave Bratislava around 6pm, board the Nightjet in Vienna at 21:30 and arrive to Venice next morning at 8:30.
Not sure if you saved any time, the difference is that sleep on the train(and perhaps even save money on the hotel bill) and not in a hotel in Bratislava or Venice.
Not to mention your carbon footprint is only a fraction if you travel by train compared to the flight and it's also sort of an adventure(I guess most of us have taken far more flights than sleeper trains).
There is no direct flight from Bratislava to Venice, but Vienna Airport is very close.
Take the last flight in the evening from Vienna around 8pm, you have to leave Bratislva around 5pm the latest, get to Venice after 10pm check in and sleep.
Or take the first flight in the morning at 9 am, must leave Bratislava by 6am at least, arrive to Venice by 11am.
By train you can leave Bratislava around 6pm, board the Nightjet in Vienna at 21:30 and arrive to Venice next morning at 8:30.
Not sure if you saved any time, the difference is that sleep on the train(and perhaps even save money on the hotel bill) and not in a hotel in Bratislava or Venice.
Not to mention your carbon footprint is only a fraction if you travel by train compared to the flight and it's also sort of an adventure(I guess most of us have taken far more flights than sleeper trains).
Nov 14th, 2019, 10:26 AM
#27
Nov 14th, 2019, 12:32 PM
#28
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I didn't say that a train is faster than a plane.
I hinted at how time effective the night train can be compared to a flight. Travelling by night train you're travelling while sleeping and you're not wasting any time from your days. Sleeping on a train is of course not the same as sleeping in a hotel room, but it works for a lot of people.
Even if the train trip takes a lot longer, the short flight doesn't really give you (much) more time in Venice or Bratislava. If you would be taking the evening flight you need to leave Bratislava around the same time(or rather a bit earlier to be on the safe side) like you would taking the night train. The flight arrives after 9pm, by the time you get to your hotel it's time to go sleeping. If you're an early bird you may wake up at 6 or 7 am to enjoy the early hours before the crowds descend on the city, but let's face it most people would rather sleep a bit longer on holiday. The night train arrives at 8:30 and in case you drop your luggage in a locker at the station you could start sightseeing right after arrival. Taking the flight would give you not more than 1-2 hours extra(and that only if you start your day early).
If you take the early morning flight you'd have to wake up at 5am and arrive to Venice after 10am, about 2 hours later than by night train. On the other hand you'd have an evening in Bratislava, but in case you have to wake up that early that won't be a long evening.
https://www.seat61.com/international...m#Vienna-Italy
I hinted at how time effective the night train can be compared to a flight. Travelling by night train you're travelling while sleeping and you're not wasting any time from your days. Sleeping on a train is of course not the same as sleeping in a hotel room, but it works for a lot of people.
Even if the train trip takes a lot longer, the short flight doesn't really give you (much) more time in Venice or Bratislava. If you would be taking the evening flight you need to leave Bratislava around the same time(or rather a bit earlier to be on the safe side) like you would taking the night train. The flight arrives after 9pm, by the time you get to your hotel it's time to go sleeping. If you're an early bird you may wake up at 6 or 7 am to enjoy the early hours before the crowds descend on the city, but let's face it most people would rather sleep a bit longer on holiday. The night train arrives at 8:30 and in case you drop your luggage in a locker at the station you could start sightseeing right after arrival. Taking the flight would give you not more than 1-2 hours extra(and that only if you start your day early).
If you take the early morning flight you'd have to wake up at 5am and arrive to Venice after 10am, about 2 hours later than by night train. On the other hand you'd have an evening in Bratislava, but in case you have to wake up that early that won't be a long evening.
https://www.seat61.com/international...m#Vienna-Italy
Last edited by BDKR; Nov 14th, 2019 at 12:37 PM.
Nov 14th, 2019, 03:35 PM
#29
You said = "It's dubious that flying saves time where a night train alternative exists."
If someone wants to take a night train for the experience (as you said before), I agree with that.
But to "save time" AND have a comfortable night's sleep, then a flight and a night in a hotel room makes sense.
Nothing against "new experiences" but a flight is very definitely faster and a hotel room bed is most probably more comfortable.
If someone wants to take a night train for the experience (as you said before), I agree with that.
But to "save time" AND have a comfortable night's sleep, then a flight and a night in a hotel room makes sense.
Nothing against "new experiences" but a flight is very definitely faster and a hotel room bed is most probably more comfortable.
Nov 14th, 2019, 05:07 PM
#30
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"You said = "It's dubious that flying saves time where a night train alternative exists."
Exactly. and as I explained this doesn't imply that travelling by train is as fast as travelling by train, it means that despite the much longer travel time you'll have just as much time at your destination. You won't have (much) more time in Venice if you take the plane, you have a night more when you're going to sleep, while you could do that on the train. Nobody would argue that a flight is faster, but in fact being faster still doesn't save you (useful) time and taking the night train you're not sacrificing any time at your destination.
Again, no one would argue that sleeping in a hotel room is better than on a train, but there could be more reasons for taking a night train, than just the experience, most notably avoiding flights which contribute to the climate change emergency. I mean look at the current photos of flooding in Venice. It's a record level aqua alta and these have been becoming much more frequent in the last 20 years than ever before as a direct consequence of climate change. If Venice is your destination it would kind of make sense to travel there in a way that is not contributing to her destruction.
Night trains are currently making a comeback in Europe. You can also be part of this exciting change. I know that night trains are not for everyone, but you'll never know whether you like it or not if you don't even try.
https://www.europeanceo.com/lifestyl...-change-track/
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet.htm
Exactly. and as I explained this doesn't imply that travelling by train is as fast as travelling by train, it means that despite the much longer travel time you'll have just as much time at your destination. You won't have (much) more time in Venice if you take the plane, you have a night more when you're going to sleep, while you could do that on the train. Nobody would argue that a flight is faster, but in fact being faster still doesn't save you (useful) time and taking the night train you're not sacrificing any time at your destination.
Again, no one would argue that sleeping in a hotel room is better than on a train, but there could be more reasons for taking a night train, than just the experience, most notably avoiding flights which contribute to the climate change emergency. I mean look at the current photos of flooding in Venice. It's a record level aqua alta and these have been becoming much more frequent in the last 20 years than ever before as a direct consequence of climate change. If Venice is your destination it would kind of make sense to travel there in a way that is not contributing to her destruction.
Night trains are currently making a comeback in Europe. You can also be part of this exciting change. I know that night trains are not for everyone, but you'll never know whether you like it or not if you don't even try.
https://www.europeanceo.com/lifestyl...-change-track/
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet.htm
Nov 14th, 2019, 05:19 PM
#31
You'll arrive HOURS before by plane than by train.
"Night trains are currently making a comeback in Europe. You can also be part of this exciting change"
Are you in sales?
There's nothing wrong with trying to sell the night train experience.
But the argument about "saving time", etc. doesn't hold water.
(no pun intended in a conversation about Venice)
Nov 14th, 2019, 05:38 PM
#32
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"You'll arrive HOURS before by plane than by train."
Yes, by plane you'll arrive about 10 hours before the train, around 10pm. And honestly, what are you going to do with these 10 hours in Venice? Most people would go to sleep and not wake up before 7am the next day. Wow, you have an entire 1 hour more in Venice than the other traveller who arrives by train at 8:30am, a huge saving.
I'm not in sales, I just like to travel by night trains and I'm very upset by the decline of night trains. I arrived once to Venice by a Budapest-Venice night train, which doesn't exist anymore. The recent hype around night trains since a year or 2 gives me a little hope that night trains are going to remain and perhaps even expand a bit even if not to their former extent. All I can do to help is to get the word out.
Yes, by plane you'll arrive about 10 hours before the train, around 10pm. And honestly, what are you going to do with these 10 hours in Venice? Most people would go to sleep and not wake up before 7am the next day. Wow, you have an entire 1 hour more in Venice than the other traveller who arrives by train at 8:30am, a huge saving.
I'm not in sales, I just like to travel by night trains and I'm very upset by the decline of night trains. I arrived once to Venice by a Budapest-Venice night train, which doesn't exist anymore. The recent hype around night trains since a year or 2 gives me a little hope that night trains are going to remain and perhaps even expand a bit even if not to their former extent. All I can do to help is to get the word out.
Last edited by BDKR; Nov 14th, 2019 at 05:40 PM.
Nov 14th, 2019, 06:08 PM
#34
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Hi,
I just read all the replies in this post, And it sparked some hot topics. I think you are all over the place with your ideas. And of course I do understand, Europe has a lot of different countries. But before you can ask people for help in this wonderful group, you need to have more of an idea of what your priorities are and your time frame. For example, if you are there for 7 nights. that means 6 days to spend, The first and last days are lost on travel. Then if you want to visit 2 countries, you lose another day of travelling. So 5 days left.
Some suggested taking a night train/flight. In my experience, if you do that you do need to recover during the day.
In my opinion, pick on a place and see it all in that city. And maybe Paris is the most romantic place of all.
Then:
1 day Disneyland (I know someone mentioned not to go there, but not all of us live in countries with big theme parks, so to OP it might be exciting)
1 day Versailles
then you have a few days left to see le Louvre, the Eiffel tower and the many more sights to see.
If ever you really really want to see another city, Amsterdam is just a few hours away via train. (could even be a day trip)
Good luck!
I just read all the replies in this post, And it sparked some hot topics. I think you are all over the place with your ideas. And of course I do understand, Europe has a lot of different countries. But before you can ask people for help in this wonderful group, you need to have more of an idea of what your priorities are and your time frame. For example, if you are there for 7 nights. that means 6 days to spend, The first and last days are lost on travel. Then if you want to visit 2 countries, you lose another day of travelling. So 5 days left.
Some suggested taking a night train/flight. In my experience, if you do that you do need to recover during the day.
In my opinion, pick on a place and see it all in that city. And maybe Paris is the most romantic place of all.
Then:
1 day Disneyland (I know someone mentioned not to go there, but not all of us live in countries with big theme parks, so to OP it might be exciting)
1 day Versailles
then you have a few days left to see le Louvre, the Eiffel tower and the many more sights to see.
If ever you really really want to see another city, Amsterdam is just a few hours away via train. (could even be a day trip)
Good luck!
Nov 14th, 2019, 06:14 PM
#35
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"Then if you want to visit 2 countries, you lose another day of travelling."
Except if you're taking a night train.
https://amateurtraveler.com/11-excit...-night-trains/
"In my experience, if you do that you do need to recover during the day."
That was your experience.I know that you're not alone and there are lots of people who can't sleep on night trains or don't like to travel this way for some reason, there are however plenty of other people(all these night trains don't run empty, actually they tend to fill up and get booked out weeks in advance) who usually manage to sleep or at least rest well on night trains. There is absolutely no way to tell in advance which group you belong to, you should try out at least once.
Except if you're taking a night train.
https://amateurtraveler.com/11-excit...-night-trains/
"In my experience, if you do that you do need to recover during the day."
That was your experience.I know that you're not alone and there are lots of people who can't sleep on night trains or don't like to travel this way for some reason, there are however plenty of other people(all these night trains don't run empty, actually they tend to fill up and get booked out weeks in advance) who usually manage to sleep or at least rest well on night trains. There is absolutely no way to tell in advance which group you belong to, you should try out at least once.
Last edited by BDKR; Nov 14th, 2019 at 06:19 PM.
Nov 14th, 2019, 06:57 PM
#36
I agree a week in Paris (with possible day trips) would be a great way to visit Europe for the first time.
At least split the week in only two places.
Nov 14th, 2019, 08:53 PM
#37
Too bad your thread got hijacked by last word-itis between two members fighting over night trains and stuff. 
Your latest ideas have merit
>>Paris and Amsterdam OR
Venice and Switzerland OR
Zagreb and Slovenia OR<<
Unfortunately you only have one week, every move will use up one half to one full day (unless you take a long uncomfortable night train) and have to get to Zurich to fly home so using up another day of travel to get to Zurich the evening before you fly out. So in reality you only have time for two destinations and one of them has to be Zurich or very convenient to Zurich.
So pick one . . . Paris or Venice would be my choice for 4 nights (thus 3 full days). Then travel to Zurich for three nights (which only equals 2 full days). You can do a day trip from Zurich. That is one week.
Your latest ideas have merit
>>Paris and Amsterdam OR
Venice and Switzerland OR
Zagreb and Slovenia OR<<
Unfortunately you only have one week, every move will use up one half to one full day (unless you take a long uncomfortable night train) and have to get to Zurich to fly home so using up another day of travel to get to Zurich the evening before you fly out. So in reality you only have time for two destinations and one of them has to be Zurich or very convenient to Zurich.
So pick one . . . Paris or Venice would be my choice for 4 nights (thus 3 full days). Then travel to Zurich for three nights (which only equals 2 full days). You can do a day trip from Zurich. That is one week.
Nov 14th, 2019, 11:18 PM
#38
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"Too bad your thread got hijacked by last word-itis between two members fighting over night trains and stuff."
I don't feel like we hijacked this topic. Mentioning the night train is absolutely on topic for a potential journey from Bratislava to Venice or Zürich and I don't think we were fighting, just clarifying our points. This forum is fortunately free and I don't think it's wrong to use it for discussion as long as it is about travelling.
"unless you take a long uncomfortable night train"
You wanna talk about it?
Where and when did you travel on that uncomfortable night train? Or are you simply assuming that night trains have to be uncomfortable?
Unless you're way over 6 feet tall most night trains are quite comfortable. I found even the crappier ones comfortable enough(much more so than trying to sleep in a plane or bus seat). You shouldn't compare them of course to hotel rooms, because night trains are not a hotel on wheels. That said you get what you pay for and on some trains you can travel quite luxuriously if you can afford it.
I don't feel like we hijacked this topic. Mentioning the night train is absolutely on topic for a potential journey from Bratislava to Venice or Zürich and I don't think we were fighting, just clarifying our points. This forum is fortunately free and I don't think it's wrong to use it for discussion as long as it is about travelling.
"unless you take a long uncomfortable night train"
You wanna talk about it?
Where and when did you travel on that uncomfortable night train? Or are you simply assuming that night trains have to be uncomfortable?
Unless you're way over 6 feet tall most night trains are quite comfortable. I found even the crappier ones comfortable enough(much more so than trying to sleep in a plane or bus seat). You shouldn't compare them of course to hotel rooms, because night trains are not a hotel on wheels. That said you get what you pay for and on some trains you can travel quite luxuriously if you can afford it.
Nov 15th, 2019, 05:47 AM
#39
I can forego snow as I can see it on other time and in other places in winter trip.
Although it is a minority opinion, I have never found Paris particularly romantic, Venice on the other hand.... But Vienna is a lot closer to Bratislava than either, and has plenty to see.
It makes no sense to have a discussion about night trains in the abstract. I have taken a good many night trains (quite a few of them in India) and the difference between the worst and the best is night and day. Some of the best are in fact marketed as hotels on wheels. A decision on train vs. plane should also consider the number of transfers involved - for Bratislava to Vienna the OP would merely need to change platforms, flying requires a 45 minutes bus to the airport, and a bus or boat at the other end.
For useful info on the Vienna-Venice night train see: https://www.seat61.com/international...m#Vienna-Italy
Nov 15th, 2019, 10:00 AM
#40
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"I have taken a good many night trains (quite a few of them in India) and the difference between the worst and the best is night and day. Some of the best are in fact marketed as hotels on wheels."
The Palace on Wheels, but that is the equivalent of the VSOE. Not scheduled public transit, but a luxury package tour.
"But Vienna is a lot closer to Bratislava than either, and has plenty to see."
The OP said he has already been to Vienna(and Budapest, Salzburg, Innsbruck) and wants to go somewhere new.
"I was wondering why you were going to Switzerland to see snow when you have the Himalyas to your north."
But they can't take trains and cableways to the top of mountains in the Himalaya and I hope it's going to stay like that.
The Palace on Wheels, but that is the equivalent of the VSOE. Not scheduled public transit, but a luxury package tour.
"But Vienna is a lot closer to Bratislava than either, and has plenty to see."
The OP said he has already been to Vienna(and Budapest, Salzburg, Innsbruck) and wants to go somewhere new.
"I was wondering why you were going to Switzerland to see snow when you have the Himalyas to your north."
But they can't take trains and cableways to the top of mountains in the Himalaya and I hope it's going to stay like that.
